Jesus the son of God

The whole argument between Jesus and the establishment about him being a son of God or not, has to do with the Mosaic Law of course. For the Law of Moses says that an Israelite is a son of God (De 14:1). The sons of Israel are sons of God. We know from the gospel that they said Jesus was a Samaritan, something he didn't argue against (Joh. 8:48). Why wasn't Jesus accepted as an Israelite and thereby as a son of God? Why is he called a a demon possessed Samaritan, when both Mary and Joseph were Jews of Judah tribe? He was circumcised on the eighth day as the Law prescribes, he lived by the Law all his life and never sinned even once. Why this hostility? What does this mean?

Well. Let's look into the story, for this is where the source of all the hate and lies toward Jesus I believe. For there were many at the time of Jesus who didn't believe that Mary was a virgin when she bore forth Jesus, and even fewer who dared to believe that God had somehow impregnated her. It was absurd. Some believed blessed Joseph had been tampering with mother Mary, but others again believed Joseph simply was too old and being the rightious man he was, they thought that he couldn't have made Mary pregnant. There had to be someone else that young Mary had fell in love and slept with out of wedlock. My theory is that this is where the rumour of the Samaritan comes in. I may be wrong, but this seems like a perfect explanation to the continous fight between Jesus and the establishement throughout the Gospel. They simply meant that Jesus wasn't a Jew. This could also explain why the Jews didn't kill him themselves by stoning, for if he wasn't a Jew, how could he receive a Jew's judgement? Instead they handed him over to the Romans who killed him as an enemy of Rome. This was probably also why Pilate ordered the plaque to be nailed over the head of Jesus saying Jesus was the king of the Jews. For Pilate had to justify his cowardness: For unless he was able to convict Jesus for being the king of the Jews and thereby a direct threat to the Roman occupation and a source of sedition, he couldn't find anything with the man that could be punnished by death. In other words if he had killed Jesus for what the Jews accused him of, he would have broken Roman law, for Roman law saw no criminal in Jesus unless they could say he was an enemy of Rome. Pilate even washed his hands (as a sign of cleanness like the Jews used to do) before the Jews, a detail which serves many functions, but first and foremost it shows the eternal hipocricy of it all, on both sides.

Jesus was not only a Jew. He was The Jew. And this was what turned Palestine inside out 2000 years ago. He wasn't the king of the Jews, he was the King of the Jewish kings. The Lord of the Jewish lords. Not a son of God, but The Son of God. Amein!

Blessings,
Mikromarius

mikromarius,
Just where does all your information about what people believed about the birth of Jesus? I do not read any where in the Gospels that anyone thought Jesus to be a Samaritan; also I have not ever read anything concerning any speculation concerning the matter of His birth. Futhermore, I have seen no speculation as to the motives of Pilate in the Bible. As far as we can see Pilate was just giving in to the Sanhedrin who wanted to crucify Jesus for blasphemy.

Accordingly.......
Scripture denotes a major difference between "Son" and "son."
Accordingly.......
Scripture denotes that Jesus Christ was the "Son of God," not 'son of God.'

regards
seekerof

I believe that Jesus Christ is The Son of God.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Accordingly.......
Scripture denotes a major difference between "Son" and "son."
Accordingly.......
Scripture denotes that Jesus Christ was the "Son of God," not 'son of God.'

There is not capital letters in Greek, only minuscles, so the only difference you'll find is the difference between "a son" (general) and "the son" (specific) or simply by looking for the article ho that is the old Greek equivalent of the English article the. Jesus is The Son because he is the only one among his sons that are both of divine and human descendance. His mother was a virgin, his father is God. He is one of a kind and unique of his kind among the sons of God. When the victory is completed and he is king, both Heaven and Earth will kneel for him, because he is both human and elohan. And it's just hillarious to see how you somehow try to say that the Son of God is not a son of God.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Christ will be a puppet set up to fool you into humbling yourself before him.

Quote from �any
Christ will be a puppet set up to fool you into humbling yourself before him.

Would you care to elaborate on this statement?

mikromarius,
I still would like to hear about your sources concerning contentions about the birth of Jesus Christ and the motivations of Pilate.

Originally posted by jagdflieger
mikromarius,
Just where does all your information about what people believed about the birth of Jesus?

How about the Protoevangelium of James, the brother of Jesus. Read that and get a broader view as to what you say you believe in.

I do not read any where in the Gospels that anyone thought Jesus to be a Samaritan;

And you obviously didn't look up the verse I had included that says this in plain text (Joh. 8:48).

also I have not ever read anything concerning any speculation concerning the matter of His birth.

Again, read protoevangelium of James, it's a good read and as I said it's written by James (Jakob) Jesus' brother. But this isn't the only place we hear about this. Even the gospels says that there were concerns about how Jesus was being born out of wedlock. In the beginning of Matthew we learn how Joseph even thought about leaving Mary since she was obviously carrying a child out of wedlock. In the Book of Revelations we get even more clues in the story about the two witnesses. They will be killed in the great spiritual city called Sodom and Egypt, where also Jesus was killed. What are the sins of Egypt and Sodom? Adultary.

Futhermore, I have seen no speculation as to the motives of Pilate in the Bible. As far as we can see Pilate was just giving in to the Sanhedrin who wanted to crucify Jesus for blasphemy.

So you think that Pilate who wasn't very much liked in Rome from before would somehow judge and kill the guy just because the Jews wanted him to? In order to be executed the way he was, he would either have to be a slave, for crucifiction was used to punnish slaves (it is important to mention that this was "only" torture in the beginning, the Romans didn't start executing people this way until later), or he would have to be an enemy of Rome. He couldn't kill him simply because the Jews didn't like him. He would have lost his job that was indeed balancing on the edge already.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Indeed within the Gospels, only Joseph was concerned about Mary's condition. Once an angel told him that she was with child due to the Holy Spirit, his concerns went away. The other information as to speculations on the birth of Jesus are extra-Biblical. I might look up the reference you gave.

So you think that Pilate who wasn't very much liked in Rome from before would somehow judge and kill the guy just because the Jews wanted him to? In order to be executed the way he was, he would either have to be a slave, for crucifiction was used to punnish slaves (it is important to mention that this was "only" torture in the beginning, the Romans didn't start executing people this way until later), or he would have to be an enemy of Rome. He couldn't kill him simply because the Jews didn't like him. He would have lost his job that was indeed balancing on the edge already

The fact that Pilate might have lost his job was the fact why he permitted the crucifixion. He was most likely sent to Israel with the dictate "Now do not start any trouble" which he did when he attempted to bring Roman Legion Standards into Jerusalem. I have heard this contention before that Pilate could not crucify Jesus because it would be a violation of Roman Law. Well how many times have we seen politicians forget the law when it was expedient for them to do so. The fact was that Pilate saw an angry Sanhedrin and an angry mob outside crying for Jesus's blood. He was most likely afraid of starting a riot and then took the easy way out. Pilate knew that he was sitting on a "powder keg" as far as the situation in Israel at that time. Killing one Jew from the boondocks to satisfy the Jewish ruling elite and not starting a rebelion would seem to be a logical choice for Pilate to make. Remember Pilate declared Jesus to be innocent as far as Roman Law was concerned.

Originally posted by jagdflieger
Indeed within the Gospels, only Joseph was concerned about Mary's condition. Once an angel told him that she was with child due to the Holy Spirit, his concerns went away. The other information as to speculations on the birth of Jesus are extra-Biblical. I might look up the reference you gave.

only Joseph??? When even Joseph had concerns about this, what would be the reaction to the other people out there? Joseph who had been close to her all the time, and even he had a hard time believing she was carrying the child of the Holy Spirit. This is indeed the case. In the eyes of the people Jesus was born outside wedlock. Like you would have done today if this had happened. And there were no angels coming to the high priests in the night saying Jesus was the son of a virgin.

....I have heard this contention before that Pilate could not crucify Jesus because it would be a violation of Roman Law. Well how many times have we seen politicians forget the law when it was expedient for them to do so. The fact was that Pilate saw an angry Sanhedrin and an angry mob outside crying for Jesus's blood. He was most likely afraid of starting a riot and then took the easy way out. Pilate knew that he was sitting on a "powder keg" as far as the situation in Israel at that time. Killing one Jew from the boondocks to satisfy the Jewish ruling elite and not starting a rebelion would seem to be a logical choice for Pilate to make. Remember Pilate declared Jesus to be innocent as far as Roman Law was concerned.

There is a multitude of aspects around Pilate and the conviction of Jesus, and you only see a few of them. We agree here actually, for I say the same thing. I simply just say that the reason he hang the announcement on the cross in several languages too, he solved the whole situation, using Jesus as the scapegoat to avoid a riot. It was the easy way out, but he would have to follow Roman law, he couldn't judge people after Jewish law. And instead of saying to Rome that he stopped a riot by killing an innocent man, he could now boast and say that there was a riot, but that he managed to capture and kill their king and the stormed calmed. See? The thing with the sign over Jesus' head was actually an extremely cunning and almost genious solution to Pilate's dilemma. Perhaps he would even get a promotion for having killed their king as a slave....

Blessings,
Mikromarius

You're awesome mikromarius.

There is not capital letters in Greek, only minuscles




AHahhahhhaahahaahahahahhaaaHAHAHA!

Hahahhahah..... that's excellent.

It makes me cry what you say my dove...

It is most beautiful!

Originally posted by �any
Christ will be a puppet set up to fool you into humbling yourself before him.

True, very true. So... are you humbled?

"IT'S THE DEVIL'S WAY NOW THERE IS NO WAY OUT
YOU CAN SCREAM & YOU CAN SHOUT
IT IS TOO LATE NOW
BECAUSE
YOU HAVE NOT BEEN PAYING ATTENTION"

Dany, forgive me for using this, but I need it. It is the Devils way for you to suffer. Who else but God allowed it? And who can shut the door that God opened? And who can open the door that God shut?

"The fact that Pilate might have lost his job was the fact why he permitted the crucifixion. He was most likely sent to Israel with the dictate "Now do not start any trouble" which he did when he attempted to bring Roman Legion Standards into Jerusalem. I have heard this contention before that Pilate could not crucify Jesus because it would be a violation of Roman Law. Well how many times have we seen politicians forget the law when it was expedient for them to do so. The fact was that Pilate saw an angry Sanhedrin and an angry mob outside crying for Jesus's blood. He was most likely afraid of starting a riot and then took the easy way out. Pilate knew that he was sitting on a "powder keg" as far as the situation in Israel at that time. Killing one Jew from the boondocks to satisfy the Jewish ruling elite and not starting a rebelion would seem to be a logical choice for Pilate to make. Remember Pilate declared Jesus to be innocent as far as Roman Law was concerned. "



Ah yessss....but you never took into account that Pilate may have been influenced by Jesus Himself. And because Pilate IS a ruler whom God himself chose, Pilate may have HAD to wash his hands from the carnage because he saw things that only rulers sent BY GOD Himself can only see. It is no wonder there ARE so many distinctions in life.

...."but he would have to follow Roman law, he couldn't judge people after Jewish law. "


[Edited on 9/11/2003 by SamaraMorgueAnn]

Originally posted by jagdflieger

Quote from �any
Christ will be a puppet set up to fool you into humbling yourself before him.

Would you care to elaborate on this statement?

I would, but I really just cannot be bothered anymore, people will believe what they want to believe and who am I to tell them differently?
I just want to be outside of all of this, away from the masters and the slaves.

Originally posted by SamaraMorgueAnn
"IT'S THE DEVIL'S WAY NOW THERE IS NO WAY OUT
YOU CAN SCREAM & YOU CAN SHOUT
IT IS TOO LATE NOW
BECAUSE
YOU HAVE NOT BEEN PAYING ATTENTION"

Dany, forgive me for using this, but I need it. It is the Devils way for you to suffer. Who else but God allowed it? And who can shut the door that God opened? And who can open the door that God shut?

It's a Radiohead lyric.