FB-23RTA proposal

I dont know how you are searching. Just a few links [it takes some 30 seconds to me]:

Unfortunately, the museum's exotic and hugely cool YF-23A Black Widow II fighter (which lost the the USAF's ATF competition to the Lockheed Martin F/A-22A Raptor) was on loan to Northrop Grumman for use in promoting the F/B-23 concept to the USAF, but I was lucky enough to see it (alongside the X-47B UCAV prototype) at the Northrop Grumman factory as we drove by. link

A aparição do F/B-23 na internet aconteceu após a decisão do comando da USAF de possibilitar a apresentação de propostas alternativas em seu programa. A USAF irá estudar estas alternativas em um prazo de até 18 meses. Com isso, e todas as fases de desenvolvimento e testes necessárias para finalizar o projeto, o novo bombardeiro poderá entrar em serviço em 2018. link

Until now, the company's offerings are known to include an upgraded B-2, X-47B unmanned combat air vehicle (UCAV) -based studies and possible designs based on its quiet supersonic technology programme. The distinctive, rhomboid-winged YF-23A lost out to Lockheed Martin's YF-22 in the ATF competition in 1991, but proved a valuable technology testbed for Northrop Grumman, which gave it all-aspect stealth. The company says it "drew upon a wide range of experience for its response to the interim bomber RFI, and the YF-23 is one". link

In late 2004, Northrop Grumman proposed a YF-23 based design for the USAF's interim bomber requirement, a role for which the FB-22 and B-1R are also competing.
link

.................

Intresting concept. Personally, I like the idea and would love to see a flying version of the aircraft. Maybe they will develop it into an operational aircraft. If they developed this idea further, it holds the potential to be one of the best strike aircraft ever (IMHO).

Maybe it will become the true white-world Sucessor to the F-111 Aardvark. Then, we would have a medium-attack aircraft that combines Stealth, supercruise, JDAM and JSOW type PGM's, and cutting edge avionics. This would be a good use of the technology. Let's keep an eye on this and keep digging. Maybe time will reveil more information.

Tim

[edit on 15-7-2005 by ghost]

Thank you, matej.
I am sorry you took my verbage/ verbiage as you did and in the tone that you did.
My attempt was to "deny" this because quite frankly, it makes me sick to see people and members simply posting up models and drawings with little to nothing "in writing" to confirm those models and drawings.

Personally, I am a little tired of having to do the grunt work.
You did an exception job in doing it. Thank you, as always.
Btw, I do know quite a few within the aerospace and defence industry, so take that.




seekerof

[edit on 15-7-2005 by Seekerof]

I know for almost 100% sure the concepts are the real deal, Northrop is offering the YF-23 frame for the Intermin Bomber Requirement.

I personally heard rumours that the FB-23 will have Delta-shaped wings since they allow for more payload and fuel which will be essential for a strike fighter.

The requirement for a bomber like this will be needed in the not so distant future with the threat looming of China and North Korea.

We may no longer have to deal with Terrorist, we might have to focus on a real enemy.

Sorry, no. Not convinced yet I'm afraid.

Just to be clear, I'm not disputing that Northrop Grumman have expended some effort on producing an FB-23.

What I am disputing is that the model (and now drawing too) is it. I maintain that it is just too old fashioned in every area of the airframe that has been changed from the originial, and distinctly un-old fashioned, YF-23.

That is someones concept of an FB-23, clearly, I just don't think that it is Northrop Grummans concept.

Located the Air industry 2004 article, as mentioned by matej, but no damn picture(s), for comparison, accompanying the article.
YF-23 re-emerges for surprise bid

Note: If link comes up error, goto home page and type in YF-23 in the search. The article above will be the third article down.

Northrop Grumman's "forgotten" advanced tactical fighter leaves museum and could be heading for bomber contest

Northrop Grumman's long-abandoned YF-23A advanced tactical fighter (ATF) is emerging as the possible basis for a surprise contender for the US Air Force's interim bomber requirement.

The company recently retrieved the second of the two YF-23A "Black Widow II" prototypes (PAV-2) from the Western Museum of Flight in Hathorne, California, ostensibly for repainting for display at a forthcoming Northrop Grumman-backed air fair in August. However, the restoration is also thought to include several changes, including new cockpit displays and other possible cosmetic modifications.

Northrop Grumman confirms restoration of the General Electric YF120-powered PAV-2 is taking place, but declines to comment on whether the revived YF-23A is linked to any USAF proposal. But sources close to the studies, which were kicked off by the USAF's recently issued request for information, say Northrop Grumman now includes a YF-23-based "regional" bomber concept among its raft of proposals and that the USAF "is interested".

Until now, the company's offerings are known to include an upgraded B-2, X-47B unmanned combat air vehicle (UCAV) -based studies and possible designs based on its quiet supersonic technology programme. The distinctive, rhomboid-winged YF-23A lost out to Lockheed Martin's YF-22 in the ATF competition in 1991, but proved a valuable technology testbed for Northrop Grumman, which gave it all-aspect stealth. The company says it "drew upon a wide range of experience for its response to the interim bomber RFI, and the YF-23 is one".

seekerof

[edit on 15-7-2005 by Seekerof]

If nothing else, my original posting of the link to photos of the model purportedly offered on Ebay and later removed has revived interest in the YF-23 on this site. I think a lot of us were very disappointed that the source(s) of the photos were no longer readily available. I believe one original source of the FB-23RTA proposal was an article of in Flight International. However, I did not see that particular article first hand.
To the best of my knowledge, the two prototypes remain absent from their respective museum sites and that Northrop-Grumman has neither confirmed nor denied the existance of this possible proposal.
As for the physical characteristics of the "model" - I would think that they represent the concept in a most rudimentary form as envisaged by its unkown maker.
What we have here is a piece of a puzzle not unlike those early published photos of the very real
SR-71 and the F-117 and the yet to be confirmed but ubiquitous AURORA with all of the inherent "sightings", models, CAD drawings and what not.
Like many members, I remain very enthusiastic about the YF-23.

Originally posted by waynos
Just to be clear, I'm not disputing that Northrop Grumman have expended some effort on producing an FB-23.

What I am disputing is that the model (and now drawing too) is it. I maintain that it is just too old fashioned in every area of the airframe that has been changed from the originial, and distinctly un-old fashioned, YF-23.

That is someones concept of an FB-23, clearly, I just don't think that it is Northrop Grummans concept.

AGREED.
Finally, someone gets what I am trying to say here.

Check the the model's 3/4 aft-top view:


and the YF-23 top view:



See a difference here?

Now compare the canopy's and air inlets:



Both of Northrop's versions:
Note on the versions: there were only TWO built:

TYPE: YF-23
Number built/Converted: 2
Remarks: ATF; lost to YF-22

SPECIFICATIONS
Span: 43 ft. 7 in.
Length: 67 ft. 5 in.
Height: 13 ft. 11 in.
Weight: 54,000 lbs. takeoff (YF-23/ATF design spec)
Engines: Two Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100's of approximately 35,000 lbs. thrust each with afterburner or two General Electric F120-GE-100 turbofans. Engine competition won by Pratt & Whitney.
Crew: One

See anymore differences?

YF-23 Black Widow II
Northrop-McDonnell Douglas YF-23
Northrop F/B-23 RTA (Rapid Theater Attack)




seekerof

[edit on 15-7-2005 by Seekerof]

I like the looks of the YF-23, so I would like to see it reincarnated as the F/B-23. But I doubt it will come to be.

Simply because there are several other cheaper solutions, like upgrading the B-1 or B-2, or another leading canidate is of course the F/B-22, which has a big step above Northrop because it would help lower the price of the current F/A-22 Raptor.

I have been watching this thread with interest but did not want to post anything until I heard from some associates of mine.

First, this story about the FB-23 model being for sale on Ebay and then being pulled from the site is true and there was indeed an article about it in Flight International magazine.
"Northrop Grumman regional bomber 'for sale' on eBay"

Here is an artists rendering of the FB-23 concept.


There's another mystery surrounding the YF-23's that I'm trying to get to the bottom of...
87-801 (PAV2) that was at the Western Museum of Flight is now at Northrop.

BUT - I'm curious as to what happened to #87-800 (PAV1), it was at Edwards, then in spring 2004 a C-5 came to pick it up. Paperwork said it was going to WP AFB for some sprucing up but it never arrived according to sources at WP.
What happened to it?

I have contacted a person I know at Northrop and he says that 801 is definitely at Northrop but he knows nothing about 800.

My gut feeling tells me that it is at Northrop Advanced Development.

Nice to see that me and seekerof were correct. The article states 'the outline shape' and also mentions 'distance' from the 'actual proposal', proving that this was a rough guess. It must have been at least fairly close though to make them so twitchy about it.

Incidentally, the impression is 'Flight's' own based on the model, not based on the actual (apparently secret) design

Waynos.

Intelgurl: yeah, that "outline shape" has just kicked my butt. Now I need to find a cushion, excuse.....
Thanks bunches, Intelgurl.



seekerof

Originally posted by waynos
Nice to see that me and seekerof were correct. The article states 'the outline shape' and also mentions 'distance' from the 'actual proposal', proving that this was a rough guess. It must have been at least fairly close though to make them so twitchy about it.

Incidentally, the impression is 'Flight's' own based on the model, not based on the actual (apparently secret) design

You know, I was the first one to mention that the FB-23 was way too different from the YF-23 to be a development of the YF-23.

Glad to see that respectable sources were put up.

Shattered OUT...

Whichever one it is whether its the FB-23 or FB-22 they need to get them developed both would be great and I think we need a fighter bomber because frankly we don't have any true F/B type of aircraft right now.


[edit on 15-7-2005 by WestPoint23]

Intelgurl, thanks for the post, i knew that the YF-23 project was never truely dead, Now that this has come up, I wonder if Boeing are stilladjusting that awesome fighter that lost out to the F-35 for the JSF project, cant remember the name though... anyways, that was an awesome plane and in my opinion looked 10X better than the F-35

www.edwards.af.mil...

Heres a pic, and yes I know it looks like its from a Happy Meal, but I really like it, Its called the X-32 btw.

[edit on 15-7-2005 by jonesey_dude]

Originally posted by jonesey_dude
Intelgurl, thanks for the post, i knew that the YF-23 project was never truely dead, Now that this has come up, I wonder if Boeing are stilladjusting that awesome fighter that lost out to the F-35 for the JSF project, cant remember the name though...

The Boeing X-32 is a dead project. Much of the technology gleaned from that project has been utilized in the F-18 Super Hornet.
The X-32A was moved to the Air Force Museum in Dayton OH in April of this year (2005).

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Whichever one it is whether its the FB-23 or FB-22 they need to get them developed both would be great and I think we need a fighter bomber because frankly we don't have any true F/B type of aircraft right now.

what about the Raptor???It's a fighter/bomber...as is (or will be) the F-35.

And if the Air Force sees the need for an interim bomber then i hope they choose the F/B-22, because it will be able to use a lot of the same parts that the F/A-22 is using...which will help keep its costs down, as well as help keep the F/A-22's costs within reason.

Originally posted by intelgurlThe X-32A was moved to the Air Force Museum in Dayton OH in April of this year (2005).

Unfortunately it's not on display yet. I was at the museum Friday, July 8, 2005, and the gentlemen I spoke to told me that it was still undergoing refurbishment. He wasn't sure when it would actually go on display.

Originally posted by intelgurl
There's another mystery surrounding the YF-23's that I'm trying to get to the bottom of...
87-801 (PAV2) that was at the Western Museum of Flight is now at Northrop.

BUT - I'm curious as to what happened to #87-800 (PAV1), it was at Edwards, then in spring 2004 a C-5 came to pick it up. Paperwork said it was going to WP AFB for some sprucing up but it never arrived according to sources at WP.
What happened to it?

I have contacted a person I know at Northrop and he says that 801 is definitely at Northrop but he knows nothing about 800.

My gut feeling tells me that it is at Northrop Advanced Development.

I have a feeling you are right about this Intelgurl! You all know 800 was the primary test plane, which mean it was better equiped for adjustment. This was also the plane that flew with the Black Widow markings at one time. If I had to Guess where YF-23 #800 is today, I would have to Say Pica Rivera, in a very remote part of Anthelope Vally! Pica Rivera is the R&D center of the Advanced Development Center of Northrop Grumman! The aircraft are designed and developed at Pica Rivara, and then sent to Palmdale for production.

Historical Note: In 1981 Northop founder and Avation pioneer, John K. (Jack) Northrop was secretly brought to Pica Rivara to see the development of the B-2 Spirit and to give Nothrop scientist feed back on the flying wing design. So, Jack Northrop really did help design the B-2. Thanks Jack, America owes you one!

Tim