Military Recruiting 6 to 10 Year Olds

I realize that recruiting has been soft lately, but this is just despicable.

There is a Military Recruiting Center located two blocks from my Tribeca apartment in NYC and lately, the recruiters have been out in force.

The military has pulled out all the stops, as they have ample multi-cultural representation from every branch of the service hawking the armed forces on the street, handing out flyers in their dress uniforms. They have parked a brand new Humvee on the corner and have installed plasma displays with eye-catching action videos playing on a loop in the storefront of the recruiting center.

Unfortunately, this center is located in one of the most liberal neighborhoods in Manhattan, where people still refuse to take down their rainbow colored "Bush Lies, Who Dies" flags. As such, the neighborhood response has been less than favorable. Perhaps there is some interest from nearby Manhattan Community College, but other than gaggles of goth and preppie teens from nearby Stuyvesant H.S. who sit in the coffee shop across the street and regard these recruiters as some kind of novelty beefcake, I doubt that they have received anything other than smug rebuffs.

Perhaps this is why they have moved on to easier targets--young children. These recruiters have taken to preying on students from P.S. 234 as they wait for their parents to pick them up after school. P.S. 234 is an elementary school that houses grades K through 5 and is located on the opposite corner from the recruiters and their shiny Humvee. The military recruiters hand out pins to the children as they walk by that say 'Proud New Soldier' and lure them over, particularly young boys, to check out the "cool" Humvee. Kids that attend P.S. 234 are between the ages of 5 and 10 years old.

As you can imagine, when some of the parents have been arriving on the scene and discovering their young kids in the grasps of military recruiters, they are not amused. Apparently, as related to me by my doorman, the situation came to a head a few weeks ago when a veritable lynch mob of angry parents stormed the recruiting station and demanded that recruiters stop speaking to their kids and move their street-based efforts elsewhere.

The supervisor was unapologetic and said that the military has the right to recruit whomever and wherever they please. He didn't think that talking to a 9 year old about choosing the military as a career path was problematic. Apparently, the situation got so heated that the police were called. Nothing was done, however, as the police confirmed that the military has the right to recruit at any public venue.

I have personally witnessed the recruiters handing out pins and talking to very young children. They walk over to the schoolyard gates at lunchtime, lure one kid over, whisper something, and give them a handful to pass out to their friends. It's like they are pushing drugs. They also wait for these kids to be alone outside the school after 3:00 when they are waiting for their parents so they can talk to them alone. It is clear they are attempting to plant seeds. It is also clear that they are acting in a predatory manner that is unseemly when young children are involved.

Regardless of how you feel about the war, attempting to influence children in such a way is innappropriate. Children are too young to grasp the weight of such a decision and this behavior is nothing but manipulation.

We all know from centuries of Psychological study that the minds of young people are EXTREMELY moldable.

Or not, maybe you just found it out by watching what happens when your kid watches the same commercial more than a half-dozen times. Either way,

Using this fact to influence the mind of children about serious things like this borders on irresponsibility. And it's not just about the armed forces, either. The Tobacco industry is currently getting alot of flak for past advertisements for the same reasons. There are countless other examples, but like I said before...It's pretty shady to get kids this young for something that is:

A.) This serious,

and

B.) More serious than just 'A War' There are numerous geo-political issues inextricably linked with this particular war...I just feel really badly about this.

It's very appropriate. Kids that age are fantasizing about their futures and building a positive image of the military is not more inappropriate than building a positive image of accounting. Kids, especially boys, are interested in the military and giving them some first-hand information is okay.

For those who hate the military, however, nothing the military will do will make them happy and everything they do will infuriate them.

I'm not saying it's necessarily bad to have kids informed about their choices, but Honestly, crunching numbers for the rest of one's life is much safer than waltzing into a warzone at 19 years old. Just my opinion. But most rabid accountants at least have the decency to wait until high school career day.

I don't really get what the big deal is on this one. When I was in grade school we had military officers come in and do show-and-tell talent shows. I'm sure that was a type of recruiting. We also had firemen; police officers and people from the local zoo and aquarium come and do shows. In the end, I had no desire to be any of those professions. I grew up and decided my own way.

I doubt that this is nothing more than Recruiters just being nice to kids. Recruiters have quotas and only stay on this duty for 4-6 years at most.

What would be the motivation?

Aren't soldiers trained to kill people? That's a bit different than having someone come in from the local aquarium to talk about how great it is to train dolphins.

This wasn't a matter of soldiers just being nice. They were talking to children about being soldiers when they grow up. Perhaps this is a new long-term strategy.

However, filling a child's head with images of riding around in a Hummer (just like P-Diddy has!) and wearing a nice uniform leaves out some important details about the job, don't you think?

It really isn't appropriate to encourage a child to fantasize about a career that involves a tremendous amount of risk when they are unable to understand those risks.

Many adults don't even know what they are getting in to when they sign up...as evidenced by those that were caught off guard when their convenient way to pay for college in the reserves turned into active duty.. or those who found themselves remaining in harm's way for much longer than they expected due to multiple tour extensions... or those who find themselves fighting in a war that they don't believe in... a 7 year old isn't going to understand these things.

Well, they have become desperate. I remember when I was like "that's a shame all those other towns have to go through that." Now, They are all over where I live...They spread like a virus. Now I am not ten years old, I am 17...but I never expected to be spoken to about joining the military. I mean...I am not the epidimy of Health. I have tons of problems...asthma, allergies, chronic stomach migranes brought on by stress...that leads to horribly gut renching vomiting. Plus I'm not very atheletic,and I wear glasses. But while I was at work, a Marine came in. Now I have nothing against the folks in uniform, although I don't agree with the war.

It's not thier fault and they are out there fighting and I appreciate that. He started talking to my boss,then saw me unpacking boxes and told me I was Marine material. He was telling me about all the oportunities that came from joining. I told him I wanted to be an artist, not a marine. He told me I could get credits for college to do that if I joined. I told him I was not very healthy...he told me they were willing to curb that.You know...give me a desk job...which I highly doubted,considering the Iraq situation.That sounded pretty desperate to me.

Luckily two happless suckers who just happened to walk in gained his attention, and he began entice them to join. I wasn't listening to what he said to them...I was too busy unpacking. But then he turned to me and said "I'm going to give my 17 year old friend here my card." Then he went on to tell me that he had an office right near where I live and had a playstation...and that I should come by and play it and we could talk about joining. He said "why not bring some friends." I was disgusted by all of this...but I replied "okay" just to get him to leave. It's like he wouldn't leave untill he got at least a maybe out of me.

When I came back next week the every store in the mall had Cards and Cd roms from that same Corpral who gave me the card. From what I had heard from my boss...he was looking for a new office around town so he could scout for new recruits easier. At the end of last week I started to notice that there were now twice as many Army commercials on T.V. The one I saw the most frequently was this new one about a kid telling his mother that he found a way to pay for college. However there were a few others...but what they neglect to tell you that you are not elligible for college credits dead. I approve of the military...but I do not agree with thier agressive recruitment methods.

I'm okay with them going to colleges and stuff,or career days...but when they are hanging out at your local mall... trying to catch you without a parent so they can seduce you in. Its just to far. I mean when is it gonna end....I thought it was bad with just the teens around here being accosted, now they are going to go after the eight or nine year olds? Bad show gentlemen, bad show. Whats next...In vitro recruitment?It's not right...let the people come to you recruiters,and for god sakes....if your gonna try to recruit wait till after they are eighteen.

Military Recruiting 6 to 10 Year Olds

Title is very wrong. There is a difference between targeting and recruiting.

They have parked a brand new Humvee on the corner

This must be the Marines.....Nearly every MC recruiting region has one.

crunching numbers for the rest of one's life is much safer than waltzing into a warzone at 19 years old

Really? How did you come up with that? (joking, I could'nt resist)

Aren't soldiers trained to kill people? That's a bit different than having someone come in from the local aquarium to talk about how great it is to train dolphins.

Despite popular belief, All soldiers and Marines are not trained killers as people might say. They have jobs like everyone else. Some go in as accountants, some as cooks, MP's, Admin, supply, logistics, NBC, Infantry etc...etc...

a 7 year old isn't going to understand these things.

True, but who's recruiting Seven year old kids? Not the US. By the time a young man or women (17) is eligble to enlist....he or she should be able to research and make a decision for themsleves. Anyways, to enlist at 17 a guardian has to sign and OK it.

The recruiters you speak of are Marines and as a Marine myself I know first hand that there are many things the Marine Corps does that do not often make it to the public or the Media and are NOT used as tools to recruit.

Toys for Tots

Toys for tots is a world wide event where Marines raise money, toys, food and other stuff and give them to needy children and orphanages during Christmas time. Most of this goes on in the 120+ countries where Marines are stationed. Christmas 2004, in an old soviet country Myself and 3 other Marines raised enough money and bought enough diapers, bottles, food, and much more stuff to run a local orpahanage baby department for one month. Also we recieved many donations of toys stuff like that to give to over 300 little kids in the area.

Is that recruiting babies and litle kids? Is that targeting these orphanges for future Marines? No it is not.

That was just one country and 3 Marines......and this is a Marine Corps Wide event, Imagine the total numbers of kids blessed by such an event.

Disney, Toys R Us and many other business's contribute alot to Toys for Tots. This is not a recruitng ad or campaign, the people effected by this are not even old enough speak, most of them can't even speak english.

But we don't ever hear in the media about Toys for Tots or the Peoples Marathon (aka the Marine Corps Marathon, another Marine sponsored event) that raises money for cancer and charities and stuff like that.

Aren't soldiers trained to kill people? That's a bit different than having someone come in from the local aquarium to talk about how great it is to train dolphins.

Would you have a problem with a younger child talking to police officers?

Technically[sp?] aren't Police Officers trained to kill people too? (allthough their weapons are there for defensive purposes, they are still trained to "take you out" if the situation calls for it.)

Furthermore joining any branch of the Armed Forces does not mean your gonna be sent to some third world hell hole, expected to kill, or be killed. My brother joined the marine corps, and was sent to Iraq during the first gulf war... he spent his whole time there in a dark room behind a computer screen monitoring communications networks. Oddly enough... he is now in the NYPD, still trained to "kill" people if need be.



However, filling a child's head with images of riding around in a Hummer (just like P-Diddy has!) and wearing a nice uniform leaves out some important details about the job, don't you think?

Ehh, most kids old enough to have a indepth conversation with a recruiter are usually bright enough to figure out what "soldiering" is all about. With things like the discovery channel, the news, and cartoons, most kids know that the guns soldiers carry aren't just for show... they also are bright enough to figure out that bullets do not tickle. Hell... I was "playing soldier" as a kid way before I was old enough to talk to a recruiter... theres something called a "rambo phase"... which tends to take place right before the "ninja phase"... most kids (usually young males) tend to play with "gi joes"... toys that usually come with guns, grenades, and other weapons... Kids know what those weapons are for...


It really isn't appropriate to encourage a child to fantasize about a career that involves a tremendous amount of risk when they are unable to understand those risks.

Naturally as the kid matures, he gets an idea of the dangers involved... I could understand the point if we were recruiting kids at 12, but thats not the case. In order to sign up for the armed forces you should have a highschool diploma/ged allready. Now... in highschool a regular history class (in the us) will atleast learn about the american revolution, civil war, ww1, ww2, korean war, vietnam, and the gulf war. Most, if not all kids, by the time they get their highschool diploma/ged understand that soldiers carry guns for a reason.



Many adults don't even know what they are getting in to when they sign up...as evidenced by those that were caught off guard when their convenient way to pay for college in the reserves turned into active duty.. or those who found themselves remaining in harm's way for much longer than they expected due to multiple tour extensions... or those who find themselves fighting in a war that they don't believe in... a 7 year old isn't going to understand these things.

Once again... we're not recruiting 7 year olds... by the time the kid is old enough to join the military he will know of these things. If he doesn't then he wasn't asking the right questions to his recruiter, and he didn't do enough research on his own. When you sign any paper that leads to military service you should atleast know what the individual ready reserve is... you should atleast know how long your military service obligation is... you should atleast understand what the term "government issue" means, as well as the responsibilities, situations, and duties it could possibly bring.

[edit on 7/6/05 by microcosm]

I was always under the impression that the military was trying to recruit you for decades from the age a kid picked up his first G.I. Joe??

A steady indoctrination of military life as being action-packed, fun and without any consequences has been layered on to kids from an early age; through comics and games, TV and movies. Watch any action cartoon and see the polarization of "enemy" and "friend" and how the enemy is evil and must be attacked.

Just because they are being more overt rather covert about it lately doesn't mean it always wasn't there. Maybe the youth of today has developed a filter for it and thus needs more overt and in your face recruiting.?

I think microcosm pretty much hits the nail on the head. A US soliders job is to defend the USA. It is an honorable job. Why shouldn't soldiers talk to kids? Yes, a soldier is trained to kill. Police officers are also trained to kill and their job can be just as dangerous as a US soldier's job. I'm sure the parents would not have the same problem if a police officer was talking with the kids about their job.

The problem is simple. We are at war right now. Half the country doesn't like this war. This is basically how it breaks down: The war is bad, the soldiers fight the war, so the soldiers should not talk to kids. It is political just like everything else in life.



[edit on 7-6-2005 by zerotime]

PETA has been reported doing it.
www.consumerfreedom.com...

Gay activists have been reported doing it
www.newswithviews.com...

It looks like the military is jumping on the band wagon. Everyone has an agenda. It is up to the parents to explain their values and views to their own children. This starts from the time your child is born. Rearing children is not a part-time job. It is a continuous 24/7 job. If you worry that a recruiter may steal your 10 year old baby because he got to touch a hummer, maybe you should re-evaluate your parenting skills. You have the most influence over your child at the most influential time of their lives. It is your responsibility to ensure that your child is ready to go out into the world at 17 or 18. Take an active role in your children’s’ lives when they are young. Don't wait until graduation.


[edit on 6/7/2005 by darkelf]

I am surprised that people don't have a problem with ANYONE luring a child as young as 6 or 7 away from school or approaching them in a schoolyard. That is just wrong. And these guys shouldn't discuss anything with such young kids without parental permission or permission from the school. It's not like they are coming in to do a presentation--they are soliciting people on the street.

However, it is apparent that the military does recruit children. They are introducing their JROTC programs into elementary schools now. The intention is to indoctrinate them into a military lifestyle at a young age so they will enlist when they are old enough.

www.inthesetimes.com...

Tarsha Moore stands as tall as her 4-foot 8-inch frame will allow. Staring straight ahead, she yells out an order to a squad of peers lined up in three perfect columns next to her. Having been in the military program for six years, Tarsha has earned the rank of captain and is in charge of the 28 boys and girls in her squad. This is Lavizzo Elementary School. Tarsha is 14.

The Middle School Cadet Corps (MSCC) program at the K-8 school is part of a growing trend to militarize middle schools. Students at Lavizzo are among the more than 850 Chicago students who have enlisted in one of the city's 26 MSCC programs. At Madero Middle School, the MSCC has evolved into a full-time military academy for kids 11 to 14 years old.

Chicago public schools are home to the largest Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps (JROTC) program, which oversees the MSCC, in the country. When moving up to high school, Chicago's graduating eighth-graders can choose from 45 JROTC programs, including three full-time Army military academies, five "school-within-a-school" Army JROTC academies and one JROTC Naval academy.

Proponents of the programs tout leadership training and character development. But critics quote former Defense Secretary Gen. William Cohen, who described JROTC as "one of the best recruiting services that we could have."

*snip*

The MSCC and JROTC programs are funded by the Defense Department, which has a $3 billion annual recruitment budget. Recruitment officers roam high schools promoting the image of a secure military career and enticing students with promises of money for college.

The "lies" mentioned by Bhagwat include the reality that, on average, two-thirds of recruits never receive college funding and only 15 percent graduate with a four-year degree. As for a "secure" career, the unemployment rate for veterans is three times higher than non-veterans.

Opponents of the JROTC program also cite ethnic profiling, arguing that the military targets students from minority and low-income areas. The Chicago Public School system is 49.8 percent African American and 38 percent Latino. Students coming from low-income families make up 85.2 percent of Chicago's student population. JROTC director Mills is correct when he says the racial and socioeconomic status of those in Chicago's JROTC program reflects the school system as a whole, but only five schools in all of the more affluent Chicago suburbs have JROTC programs.

Military recruiters are known for their flashy tactics: television ads, omnipresent brochures, recruiting ships, trucks and vans, and even a free Army video game kids can download off the Internet. Yet, the Army hasn't met its recruitment goals in three months. The Marines haven't met their quotas since January. Suspicious recruitment tactics are in the headlines and Army recruiters took off May 20 to retrain in the ethics and laws of recruitment.

This is a bit different than having a career day--but at least this is voluntary and with parental consent. Specifically targeting young children before their parents pick them up after school is underhanded and sleazy.

And joining the NYPD and the military are two different things--mainly that you can decide to leave the NYPD and you are signing your life away when you enlist. You can't just walk out--and you may not get to leave when your time is up either. Do these recruiters explain that to the 7 year olds that they are seducing on the street?

Originally posted by lmgnyc
It really isn't appropriate to encourage a child to fantasize about a career that involves a tremendous amount of risk when they are unable to understand those risks.

Yes, I totally agree.

And while we are at it, lets get those damn firemen and cops out of our schools. I mean, who would want their kid to get shot during a bank robbery, or killed in a burning apartment building in the dead of night?

And lets not forget fishermen, loggers, and miners. After all, statistics clearly show that they have a mucher higher death rate while on the job, then say, a stay-at-home moms who surfs the net all day long.



It is attitudes like this that are creeping into our society and causing our national respect and honor for our military men and women to erode. I mean, for crying out loud, does anybody really think that the Marine Corp is actively trying to recruit children? The Marines want soldiers, not bed-wetters.

People who find the public presence of a US military member, in dress uniform and in the performance his or her official duty, as somehow offensive or setting a bad example...........need their head examined.....IMHO. What you should really do is go over and thank them for doing a job they probably don't want in the first place, yet nevertheless execute with dignity and diligence. Or perhaps do you think our servicement should remain nameless, faceless persons who never leave their posts, and die anonymously for us when duty calls, and we never have to tell our precious little children about those who sacrafice to keep us free?

And don't start in with the whole "This war is illegal" crap, because this isn't about Iraq, it's about the general perception that some people have about our military as a whole. If your children are too young to understand anything, its the complex politics and hidden agendas that got us involved in the lame-a$$ war in the first place. But children are never too young to be taught that members of our fighting services are objects or respect and admiration.

Ok, where do I start.
From the Article

Students at Lavizzo are among the more than 850 Chicago students who have enlisted in one of the city's 26 MSCC programs

They did not enlist. JROTC and all the other military cadet whatevers are volunteer at public schools. Show me where the sudents enlisted?
Where did they sign the dotted line and say "I bla bla bla do solemnly swear to support and defend ..........) That shows the ignorance of the author who wrote the article.....using such false words to hype the readers up.

The MSCC and JROTC programs are funded by the Defense Department, which has a $3 billion annual recruitment budget. Recruitment officers roam high schools promoting the image of a secure military career and enticing students with promises of money for college.

JROTC and military recruiters are two different ballgames. The JROTC instructors are RETIRED military and are payed by the same people who pay the teachers....not the Dept of Defense.

The "lies" mentioned by Bhagwat include the reality that, on average, two-thirds of recruits never receive college funding and only 15 percent graduate with a four-year degree. As for a "secure" career, the unemployment rate for veterans is three times higher than non-veterans.

Are you that stupid to believe this???? seriously, are you retarded?
JROTC recruits are not in the MILITARY!!!!! they do not get payed nor do they sign a contract. The are not promised college funding either....they can get ROTC scholarships if they make good grades like all other scholarship "winners". Once again...these JROTC students are not military so that means they are not VETERANS....they do not rate or deserve the benefits of one.

Opponents of the JROTC program also cite ethnic profiling, arguing that the military targets students from minority and low-income areas. The Chicago Public School system is 49.8 percent African American and 38 percent Latino. Students coming from low-income families make up 85.2 percent of Chicago's student population. JROTC director Mills is correct when he says the racial and socioeconomic status of those in Chicago's JROTC program reflects the school system as a whole, but only five schools in all of the more affluent Chicago suburbs have JROTC programs.

Someone does not have on thier thinking cap today!!! (joking)
What about the other "all white" schools across the nation? Many of them have JROTC. This is one school system.....very poor statistics given.
Well yeah!! if you put anything, any club or organization in a mostly minority school, then the club breakdown will reflect the schools breakdown. The same as if you put JROTC in an all white school....obviously most of the cadets will be a white.

The Marines haven't met their quotas since January

Once again....the article is BS. It was written June 3, 2005......
but the Marine Corps has been beyond our recruiting goals so far
this year....

mainly that you can decide to leave the NYPD and you are signing your life away when you enlist. You can't just walk out--and you may not get to leave when your time is up either. Do these recruiters explain that to the 7 year olds that they are seducing on the street?

Signing you life away??? Is a 2 year enlistment signing your life away???
the most one can enlist for is 6 years....hardly a lifetime.

Please explain...why do you consider enlisting for 2/3/4/5/6 years as throwing ones life away?

mainly that you can decide to leave the NYPD and you are signing your life away when you enlist. You can't just walk out--and you may not get to leave when your time is up either. Do these recruiters explain that to the 7 year olds that they are seducing on the street?

Actually you can, just fail one urinalysis. I have known people who started smoking pot just to fail the test. The military really is not for everyone. Some people don’t realize this until partway into their first year.

who would want their kid to get shot during a bank robbery, or killed in a burning apartment building in the dead of night?

Well next time your house is on fire or when someone breaks in to your house, I would love to see the police or fireman ride by as say sorry we don't have anyone to help you because people think police and fireman are bad. Good luck, try not to get shot and remember drop and roll.

The military is a great career and an honorable job someone has to do it and educating kids of their options and introducing them to the military is not a bad thing. If no one wants to volunteer then don't complain when they implement the draft, you cant have it both ways.

Class Warfare

Speaking anecdotally, and purely from my own subjective point of view, my summary of the “anti-military” mentality expressed in this case -- and others like it -- is as follows:

It is horror and outrage at the idea that one's precious child might become a soldier instead of a doctor or lawyer.

That's a job for somebody else's child.

In other words, it is an expression of elitism and social irresponsibility, and open contempt for those who value service over self.

It is a product of sheltered living and a calloused disregard for the sacrifices of others to provide that shelter.

I will afford those who hold this craven and contemptible point of view no more respect than they deserve -- which is very little.

That's my view of it, anyway, and no amount of mendacious, sanctimonious blather is likely to change that.

My point of view is that of a citizen who has personally suffered abuse from thoughtless civilians for choosing to serve my nation's armed forces.

And that is something I will never forget.

hmm majic...

I've allready voted you for wayabovetopsecret this month... so instead I'm awarding you with the official thumb of Microcosm.



[edit on 6/8/05 by microcosm]