Why do some people feel the need to post outright lies about Masons and Masonry?

Originally posted by lost in the midwest
Perhaps the person posting the picture might be a little more forthcomming as to were they found it, but that might hurt their arguement if it real orgin is known.

Well duh!

We couldn't have 'em posting anything factual or anything that might make their side look silly, now could we? What good would THAT do?



Now if you want to talk conspiracies here...I think I've found the REAL conspiracy.

C'mon pepsi...explain THIS one!!! That's luciferian, devil-worship, occult and TWO all-seeing eyes if I've ever seen it!

I am an ordinary person with a family to protect. If some nasty things are coming down I want to know about it. If something is coming and you know about it please stand up as the righteous men you claim to be and speak out! All this conspiracy stuff is being dumped on society from the web and lately heavily from TV, Coast to CoastAM, Air America Radio, etc. Sunday night TV is all Crusades, end of the world scenarios, deadly viruses, earth changes, holy blood holy grail etc. etc. People are being ensnared by credit and technology and idiot making media.
Some of you Mason defenders have been saying that the Masons have no secerets, no power, and no inner circles hidden from the lower ranks. I find that very difficult to believe from a long range historical view. I am no expert on any of this but I have made a real effort to see it all as an overview from a completely independent position (I distrust organizations generally). I have no affilation or axe to grind. Do you really know nothing?

Can anyone deny that there is a long stream of occult, Gnostic, Egtptian, Solomonic, Zionist, Kabbalic, etc. going a hell of a long way back that has heavy idealogic overlaps between Freemasonry, Templars, Rosicricians, Illuminists etc. Sorry folks I don't see from a larger perspective that all these occult groups are so independent from each other. I think they are under the same umbrella and the Masons have alot of influence over many of them. Why? This stream has continued to flow for so very long under various guises it must be more significant that say "Promise Keepers" and much more than "steak night" and fun customes. The overlaps with the Crowleys, Anton leVeys, Theosophists etc. has such obvious overlaps with Luciferian (or what ever you want to call it) appers pretty obvious again from a large perspective. The connections with world power over the centurys espicially with the Mason, Zionists, Templars is also pretty obvious. How could this stream run for so long if it is impotent as you say? I could buy that the lower ranks don't see the stuff at the top similar to the Mormons and Jehovas who I some real doubts about (at the top). I am sure you could split hairs ad infinitum seperating these groups from each other but fundamentally I think most of this can be lumped together.

Anyway you have been very influential and the world has been a bloody ugly place if judjed as a whole. Were you responsible, I don't know but you were around. When did Masons stand up and take a stand against the evil conducted by world rulers they were so close to? Men are known by their works. Where are the good works of occult groups who claim to proctect divine knowledge from the lowly teaming hoardes but show no concern for them and just pursue wealth and majical power and secrecy. Where were you when 1/3 of the Laotian population died for our little seceret drug money war during the Vietnam War or MKULTRA was abusing children. You may be a false front end for some more powerful influence but why let yourself be used? What have you done about satanic ritual abuse?

Wern't you there when the founding Masons and later Rockfellars, Rothchilds, Morgans, Dulles, etc were stealing control of this country?

I could be wrong, maybe you are impotent as you say and the world leaders are nothing more than than power hungry dolts who could not orchestrate a fraction of what conspiratist can imagine. Perhaps we give them all too much credit. Maybe there is no one really at the top. It is just hard to believe the stream could run so long and so powerfully if it is all nothing more than a boys club. Catherine Fitts could not seem to identify them despite her knowledge of the massive drug money corruption of wall street.

And where is the evidence of the great magic power these groups lust after? I don't see anyone walking on water or bi-locating or healing the sick. Again you are known by your works. Where are your majic powers? Have any of these adepts beat death or just caused it? Is the great secret really the aliens or Annanuki?

I acknowledged my info comes partially from the web and it is a horrendous job to extract truth from it. Basically you can find whatever suits your outlook. However even from the web when you find lots of pieces to the puzzle from different angles you start to build a base of belief.
How about the British Royalty Family linkage? More web stuff but there is so much of it.

www.thetruthseeker.co.uk...

Look I have nothing against any normal Mason, Mormom, Jew, Christian, etc but it seems utterly absurd to say it is all benign. If we were to remove the Masons from the conspiratorial matrix we lose an awful lot of the linkages people make. So then let me ask you Masons "who is it" if it is not you and you are not involved? Point the finger where blame is due and protect yourselves from slander but don't give me "steak night" at the old temple or I'll never believ you. As you have been around so long any have been so close to world leaders you damn well should have some idea of truth by now! Or do you think the world is a nice and TV normal place? Like I said there are children to protect in this world and if any of you Masons know the truth about anything real speak out!

As a foot note here is something from the O.T.O. (supossedly). True or not I don't know but this is the kind of stuff that swamps the web searcher.

BAPHOMET XIø

Liber LII

[Book 52]

Manifesto of the O.T.O.

The Manifesto provides a concise summary of the various threads of
initiatic tradition that make up the O.T.O.. It was first published
from Boleskine circa 1912 E.V., and reprinted in The Equinox III(1)
(Detroit: Universal, 1919).--H.B.

Issued by Order: BAPHOMET XIø O.T.O., HIBERNIAE IONAE ET OMNIUM
BRITANNIARUM, REX SUMMUS SANCTISSIMUS

Peace, Tolerance, Truth; Salutation on All Points of the Triangle;
Respect To the Order. To All Whom It May Concern: Greeting and Health.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

1. The O.T.O. is a body of initiates in whose hands are concentrated
the wisdom and the knowledge of the following bodies:

m.

a. The Gnostic Catholic Church.

b. The Order of the Knights of the Holy Ghost.

c. The Order of the Illuminati.

d. The Order of the Temple (Knights Templar).

e. The Order of the Knights of St. John.

f. The Order of the Knights of Malta.

g. The Order of the Knights of the Holy Sepulchre.

h. The Hidden Church of the Holy Graal.

i. The Hermetic Brotherhood of Light.

j. The Holy Order of Rose Croix of Heredom.

k. The Order of the Holy Royal Arch of Enoch.

l. The Antient and Primitive Rite of Masonry (33 degrees).

m. The Rite of Memphis (97 degrees).

n. The Rite of Mizraim (90 degrees).

o. The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Masonry (33 degrees).

p. The Swedenborgian Rite of Masonry.

q. The Order of the Martinists.

[edit on 16-11-2005 by newindustar]

"Theres got to be more

I am an ordinary person with a family to protect. If some nasty things are coming down I want to know about it. If something is coming and you know about it please stand up as the righteous men you claim to be and speak out! All this conspiracy stuff is being dumped on society from the web and lately heavily from TV, Coast to CoastAM, Air America Radio, etc. Sunday night TV is all Crusades, end of the world scenarios, deadly viruses, earth changes, holy blood holy grail etc. etc. People are being ensnared by credit and technology and idiot making media.
Some of you Mason defenders have been saying that the Masons have no secerets, no power, and no inner circles hidden from the lower ranks. I find that very difficult to believe from a long range historical view. I am no expert on any of this but I have made a real effort to see it all as an overview from a completely independent position (I distrust organizations generally). I have no affilation or axe to grind. Do you really know nothing? "

All I can say is to read your history. If you go back you will see the same ideals, of a secret group taking over the world repeated time and again. We have been around offically, since 1717. If we were going to take over, you would have thought we would have done it by now. I am ashame if people think that we are running it now, because if that is the case, we are truly doing a piss poor job of it. People like these stories, it gives them someone to blame for the mess we have all created, instead of realizing that all of us have a duty to our part,to try to make this world a little better place to be.

[edit on 16-11-2005 by lost in the midwest]

[edit on 16-11-2005 by lost in the midwest]

Are you SEROUS?

Apparently so. Ok, I give up. You've figured us out.

Sorry Brothers, I need out of the Conspracy -- this person has finally made me see the error of my ways.

As my name replies, children are the one thing that could make me divulge the truth -- but you have to promise not to tell anyone. We can't have our sinister secrets leaking out.

You can escape the coming armageddon, but only if you wear a properly constructed AFDB device, 24 hours a day. You can find out more at This Site.

I know you'll feel funny at first, and you may even get some strange looks from all the fools who are destined to doom while only you, posessor of the grand secret, will survive. Just console yourself with the knowledge that, in the end, the only one laughing will be YOU!

If you want to protect your pets ('cuz hey, the only thing cuter than a baby is a puppy or kitten, right?) -- not to mention you don't want your pet to give away your secrets to the very people most dangerous to you. Cats especially, being sacred since ancint egipt (and may the fleas of a thousand camels infest Pepsi's armpits for revealing the origin of our dastardly scheme) must be protected. Follow this illustration and hook up fluffy as well.

Now, off to stir up a nice fresh batch of Sop Opra.

DD

Edit to correct rookie formatting errors...

[edit on 16-11-2005 by Dedicated_Dad]

Originally posted by newindustar
I am an ordinary person with a family to protect. [INCREDIBLE amount of ridiculous nonsense snipped]

So you do this by posting pathetic garbage of which you obviously know NOTHING about (except what you've read on a nonsensical web-site?)

As a 16 yr and VERY active Mason I can only respond the most honest way possible...are you ready??? OK...here goes...

[ahem]

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

WOW! That felt good!

Thanks for the laugh.

Regards

Well the childish responses here I don't think are appropriate for dignified Masons are they. You don't read very well do you? You did not reply to a single question. Believe it or not I am not an anti. Actually I had considered looking into joining in the past before all this web stuff hit the screen. The points I raised are what anyone who starts looking into this will have to address and they were not attacks per se. They were circusmstantial.

I'll help you out.

1. "Some of you Mason defenders have been saying that the Masons have no secerets, no power, and no inner circles hidden from the lower ranks."
Do you really know nothing?


2. Can anyone deny that there is a long stream of occult, Gnostic, Egtptian, Solomonic, Zionist, Kabbalic, etc. going a hell of a long way back that has heavy idealogic overlaps between Freemasonry, Templars, Rosicricians, Illuminists etc.?

3.The connections with world power over the centurys espicially with the Mason, Zionists, Templars is also pretty obvious. How could this stream run for so long if it is impotent as you say?

4. When did Masons stand up and take a stand against the evil conducted by world rulers they were so close to? What are your good works?

5. Wern't you there when the founding Masons and later Rockfellars, Rothchilds, Morgans, Dulles, etc were stealing control of this country?

6. And where is the evidence of the great magic power these groups lust after?

7. If we were to remove the Masons from the conspiratorial matrix we lose an awful lot of the linkages people make. So then let me ask you Masons "who is it" if it is not you and you are not involved?

8. As you have been around so long and have been so close to world leaders you damn well should have some idea of truth by now! Or do you think the world is a nice and TV normal place? (Do you think there is any real impending reducting or dis-impowering of the world's population which will result it great power being left in the hands a a very few.

The point is you have been a very long running group close to power. You should have something valuable to say about the world situation and be able to respond to serious questions being raised far and wide. All I have done is stumbled into the questions and been honest enough to ask for answers from the source and you have responded like defensive children..

Originally posted by newindustar
Actually I had considered looking into joining in the past before all this web stuff hit the screen.

Yes...I do INDEED read quite well. In fact I read into the sugar-coated nonsense you've posted and will respond directly to the statement above.

It's nice you "considered looking into joining in the past" and to be honest with you (and I DO mean honest) in reading your nonsensical posts...I for one am VERY glad that all you did was "consider" If you had petitioned membership in MY Lodge I would have black-balled you. If you had petitioned a Lodge elsewhere and I knew about it, I'd have contacted the Grand Lodge and seen that someone else had black-balled you.

We neither need nor want someone who has the misconceptions about Masonry that you do. There are plenty of good, moral, THINKING men out there who can and will join our ranks.

I don't mean to insult you, but since you started it....Masonry is NOT about what YOU'RE about.




[edit on 16-11-2005 by senrak]

Hey at least I am man enought to admit I don't know the answers to these questions that's why I'm here asking you. You are the mason, not me bud. How clear do I have make it that I am open to any good information and that I am aware the web is full of crap as well as good info. I did not go onto web looking for dirt on the Masons. I went because I had a Mason grandfather I never met and was curious. I also have Scottish roots and was interested for that reason also.

Watching TV a few weeks ago I discovered hoardes of tourists are on seceret society tour quests ending up at Roslyn chapel! What ever secrets these old occult groups are trying to hang onto good luck.

Why don't you stand up a answer any of the direct qusetions I posed? I am open to education.

I never would have made it as a Mason cause I despise ritual and oath taking anyway so you don't have to bother with black-balling, stick with your black flames.

Ok here it goes.....

Upon raising a new Master Mason is given a numbered antique box. We are sworn to never open it. We are told inside contains a single word. On June 31st, 2007 we are, as foretold in anceint times, to meet an a secret underground Lodge located beneath the Pomona General Store in Pomona, Il. (population like 10) Every Mason in the world will converge on this one meeting place to assemble the word puzzle. The number on the box references where the word is in the message. Once the millions upon millions of words are assembled, we then will have all the power. Bwahahaha


.....And if you believe that I've got a bridge I want to sell you.

Actually I will point you to one of your own questions to think about the answers for the others......

Originally posted by newindustar
6. And where is the evidence of the great magic power these groups lust after?

Exactly. Where is it? It doesn't even exist... The fact is (as someone already pointed out) that if this power did exist...and we had it....wouldn't we have already used it? Can you start to see how outrageous most of the claims against Masonry are?

Seriously, why don't you read some Masonic sites....see what Masons say that they are.
www.masonicinfo.com...

This site has some great articles explaining some of the more well known myths about Masonry. Read more than just that one site...read a number of pro Masonry sites, Shriner Sites and the like....THEN go back and read some of the claims that are made against Masonry and see if they make any sense. I'm betting after you put rational thought into some of the claims and/or questions you will see how off the wall some of it is...

If after all of that you still have questions let us know and we'll do our best to help you.

Originally posted by newindustar


1. "Some of you Mason defenders have been saying that the Masons have no secerets, no power, and no inner circles hidden from the lower ranks."
Do you really know nothing?

Actually, I know a lot of things, not the least of them being that paranoia is not a virtue.

2. Can anyone deny that there is a long stream of occult, Gnostic, Egtptian, Solomonic, Zionist, Kabbalic, etc. going a hell of a long way back that has heavy idealogic overlaps between Freemasonry, Templars, Rosicricians, Illuminists etc.?

Yes, they can.

To begin with, even the existence of the Rosicrucians is up for debate. Most historians maintain that no such fraternity really existed, and was just an invention of a certain Lutheran minister in the early 17th century. The Illuminati were a heavily rationalistic society, and would have considered occultism, Kabalah, Gnosticism, etc., to be superstition. The Templars were in reality orthodox Roman Catholics. Stories that weave these organizations together ideologically or hierarchically are just plain fictional.

3.The connections with world power over the centurys espicially with the Mason, Zionists, Templars is also pretty obvious. How could this stream run for so long if it is impotent as you say?

If the Templars held "world power", I doubt their enemies would have been able to round them up and imprison them in 48 hours, which they did. As far as Masons go, when we see those instances in which Masons held political power (Garibaldi's Italy, Washington's USA, etc.), we inevitably find free, democratic republics, whereas when we see instances in which anti-Masons hold power (Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Pol Pot), we inevitably find tyrannies.

4. When did Masons stand up and take a stand against the evil conducted by world rulers they were so close to?

1776.

What are your good works?

Why are your worried about my good works, instead of your own? I will be held accountable for my works, and you will be held accountable for yours.

5. Wern't you there when the founding Masons and later Rockfellars, Rothchilds, Morgans, Dulles, etc were stealing control of this country?

Our Founding Fathers did not "steal control" of this country. The people of the colonies offered to crown Worshipful Brother George Washington king; he refused, demanding a democratic republic, as did the other Masonic founding fathers.

6. And where is the evidence of the great magic power these groups lust after?

I think that's sort of what we Masons on this forum have been asking for years. So far, none of our critics have been able to answer.

7. If we were to remove the Masons from the conspiratorial matrix we lose an awful lot of the linkages people make. So then let me ask you Masons "who is it" if it is not you and you are not involved?

This question, I think, is the key. I would say that NOBODY is involved because I don't believe in conspiracy theories; I think they're childish, immature, paranoid, and are just a modern form of scapegoating and avoiding responsibility. There's plenty enough evil in this world that's real without having to invent fake ones.

[edit on 17-11-2005 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by newindustar
4. When did Masons stand up and take a stand against the evil conducted by world rulers they were so close to?

1776.

Uh-ho. Contentious-topic alert. Plucky little Brit considers challenging Americano-centric view of colonial rebellion.

Then reconsiders as it's off-topic.

Better put the kettle on instead and have a nice cup of TEA.

Heh!! I'm with you on that one Trinityman.
But back to the topic.....

Originally posted by newindustar
If we were to remove the Masons from the conspiratorial matrix we lose an awful lot of the linkages people make.

You've hit the nail on the head there dude. "The Conspiratorial Matrix"?
What do you think would happen if Freemasonry were removed from the equation?
Well, I can hazard a pretty good guess based on history and sociology.

People would look for other scapegoats.

It's as simple as that. There always has to be somebody to take the fall for the screw ups that our societies make. Your economy going down the crapper and lost a war? - Blame the Jews. Hitler did.
Your revolution not working out the way you wanted it to? - Blame the intellectuals. Pol and Miao did.
Your religion not going the way you want it to? - Blame a few peasants. The Inquisition did.
Your country going bankrupt and you need to raise cash quick? - Blame the Templars. Philip of France did.

You see a link here?
When people screw up, it's never their fault. It's always somebody else's. It's so much easier to shirk responsibility for you dilemma on the guy next door. After all: do you know exactly what he gets up to in his garage at night?

So your conspiracy isn't based on fact. It's based on a thing called human nature. And not a very nice side of it either. It's based on the side that is ignorant and so looks for the nearest likely looking candidate (however innocent) and falls squarely on their shoulders.

As for being impotent? Freemasons aren't impotent. My first child was born on Tuesday.
I'll try to raise her as an honest, caring person who will choose her own God and who will hopefully make me a proud man. You can keep your conspiracies. They're based on nothing but ignorance. I've got all the proof I need asleep upstairs in her cot.

Originally posted by Leveller
My first child was born on Tuesday.

Congratulations, my Brother!

For that, I'll even forgive your British heresies against the Glorious Revolution.....ours!

Some people have nothing better to do than to post B.S. about something they cannot even explain. I must also say in the same breath, this is just not held to the Masons and other good old boy clubs. I think by engauging in mindless misery and also out of the reason to be part of something or pretending to know what the hell they are talking about. IMHO, I just think it all boils down to wanting to get someones attention. That's the best I can figure.

Yes why even come here and post such things, why even ask if masonary is
evil evil evil?
Why such post if they dont care?

Originally posted by Leveller
My first child was born on Tuesday.
I'll try to raise her as an honest, caring person who will choose her own God and who will hopefully make me a proud man. You can keep your conspiracies. They're based on nothing but ignorance. I've got all the proof I need asleep upstairs in her cot.

sorry i cannot believe things about my grandpa, mason for 55 years,that are negative. nothing anyone can say can make believe that the man i campare everyman in my life to is part of some satanistic,take over the world, conspiracy.
Luv Ya pappaw jim...!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by psychosgirl
Luv Ya pappaw jim...!!!!!!!!!

Here the young lady proves that Wisdom is not consequent to age, and that it will eventually win every battle against ignorance and malice.

I don't know Brother Jim, but I shook hands with 20 of him last evening.

G*d Bless, tell your Pappaw I said hi!

DD

WHO DO THE HIGH MASONS and SHRINERS ANSWER TO?

I don't think you average Masons really get the seriousness of the point NEWINDUSTAR was trying to make or understand the larger picture of what is happening. Some innocent baby's face probable just got blown away in the world as I type because of the evil men who dominate this planet. Hopefully you are in ignorance not complicity. There is OBVIOUSLY a difference in complicity between low vs high players in all of the world's powerful organizations. All organizations must have a top inner circle, anyone who claims there is no top (and mostly evil) is a FOOL or a LIAR. World history is all about BLOODSHED and money. If the truth is not exposed America, the Jews including the corrupt Zionists, most Masons, the minorities, etc. indeed most of the planetary population is in danger of extermination or domination. There is no joke here despite your Masons foolish laughter and dismissal.

I wonder if Masonic Light with all his knowledgeof history can refute the long pages of evidence here. If he laughs it all off as a whole because it sounds absurd try tackling individual points and you will see the truth whithin. You don't have to be a Christian despite the Christian perspective, look at the history. Normal Masons likely consider the Jesuits to at odds with Masonry so you Masons here deserve it to yourselves and the planet to consider the following.

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...
www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

www.thewatcherfiles.com...

If you Masons blow it all off with your silly laughoffs you are definitely under suspicion of dishonesty. But I honestly don't think you know the whole truth.

I thinnk "The Order of the Garter" is a good place to investigate.





[edit on 22-11-2005 by peopledying]

Originally posted by peopledying
I thinnk "The Order of the Garter" is a good place to investigate.

A potentially good discussion started up here but fizzled out after a few posts.

What is it that you would like to share with us about the Order of the Garter?

PS - you can answer my question on the other thread any time...