Real ID Act Passes the Senate by Being Tagged on Emergency Troop Spending Bill.

HR 418, the Real ID Act has now passed both the House and the Senate and is wending its way into being singed into law by the President. The Act being proposed is intended to reduce illegal immigration into the United States, but is accused of being a substitute for the failed National ID. Though there where many opponents to this act, it was put through by tagging it on the Emergency Troop Spending Bill, which both Republicans and Democrats would never dare to turn down. In a quote Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, Nevada Democrat, said, "They did it on purpose; they put it on a supplemental which they knew you couldn't stop. I've had a senator come to me and say, 'We're going to filibuster this.' I said, 'Get real. It's not going to happen. It's a defense bill.' ". Even last minute attempts through online petitions were unable to dissuade the senate from passing this bill.

Senate approves electronic ID card bill
Last-minute attempts by online activists to halt an electronic ID card failed Tuesday when the U.S. Senate unanimously voted to impose a sweeping set of identification requirements on Americans.

War bill shields I.D. Act from ax

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid said yesterday that Democrats will have to accept the Real I.D. Act -- written by House Republicans to limit asylum claims and crack down on illegal immigrants obtaining driver's licenses -- as part of the final emergency war-spending bill.

This bill is the beginning of a major change in this country. Gone will be the days when you had any ability to be free from unlawful search and seizure, your information is going to be at the finger tips of everyone you transact any business with on a daily basis, and your ability to roam free nationally and internationally will be remembered only in the history books.

One ZDnet FAQ on the Real ID act speaks of people’s inability to travel, open a bank account, work, enter a public structure, or even shop at your local 7-11 without this ID card. You will basically be unable to survive without it. The FAQ even mentions test roadblocks, “the agency plans to start a yearlong test of the technology in July at checkpoints in Arizona, New York and Washington state..”

Of course there is also talk of this being made implantable in the future due to the risks involved with identity theft. The card is going to include at the very least name, birth date, sex, ID number, a digital photograph, address, in a "common machine-readable technology". Naturally the Office of Homeland Security is leaning in favor of the RFID style of machine readable technology. Eventually it is expected to also include digital finger print scans and possibly even retina scans of the holder. The database is to be accessible by not only the US government but also the governments of both Canada and Mexico.

In summery card is going to restrict movement, and ability to buy or sell, it will include prints from the hand and the eye, it may eventually be implantable, and crosses at least two boarders at present. How can any Christian such as myself ever be expected to accept such a device, and how can a President that considers himself a born again Christian push for such a device on his watch?

If the information is available to Canada and Mexico I wont get one.

If I have to get one, I will refuse.

I dont like MExico, I dont like Canada, They arent respectable countries as far as I am concerned. They will not have legal access to my personal information or my photo and fingerprint.

It will be war, literally. I will protest every single day of my life.

I am not a citizen of Mexico or Canda.

And I read the ZDNet article. They say nothing about Canada or Mexico other then foreign travelers entering into the Unites States will have a RFID id issued to them for their visit so they can be tracked. This I am glad to hear.

Now we need a border patrol smackdown to go with it. And a sweep of everyone in the country already ..


[edit on 11-5-2005 by Obfuscate]

[edit on 11-5-2005 by Obfuscate]

oh, they can have my fingerprint, why not, it will be different within the year anyways.

There seem to be a few threads with this same topic. Is there a way to merge them?

Here is a quote about the Mexico, Canada thing:

HON. RON PAUL OF TEXAS
BEFORE THE US HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

This bill establishes a massive, centrally-coordinated database of highly personal information about American citizens: at a minimum their name, date of birth, place of residence, Social Security number, and physical and possibly other characteristics. What is even more disturbing is that, by mandating that states participate in the “Drivers License Agreement,” this bill creates a massive database of sensitive information on American citizens that will be shared with Canada and Mexico!

Makes me wonder if it has anything to do with this old story from last year:

Getting Chipped

Two hundred employees in Mexico's attorney general's office were recently implanted with the VeriChip RFID chip in order to access to secure areas.

OR...

Law enforcement in Mexico goes a bit bionic
MEXICO CITY – Crime has become such a problem in Mexico that the government has created a fleet of cyborgs to fight it. Call them Mexico's "Robocops."

Sure, the transformation of the 170 or so law-enforcement officials isn't as dramatic as the 1987 movie, where the protagonist was part man, mostly machine. The Mexican officials have been injected with a microchip the size of a grain of rice. Implanted beneath the skin of their arms, it allows them to access a high-level crime database and, they hope, track them if they're kidnapped.

[edit on 5/11/2005 by defcon5]

If that is true im going to be pissed beyond words..

I will not tolerate sharing information like that.

When I read the actual bill earlier today, the only mention I seen of Canada and Mexico was that when their citizens entered the US, they would need to be issued a RFID ID Card when entering so they could be monitored and catalogued.

I didnt personally see anything about sharing databases.

If someone can prove me wrong I am all ears.



[edit on 11-5-2005 by Obfuscate]

Well I read the thing again and I did not see anything about sharing the database with Canada or Mexico.

I did see that Senators comments but I have not seen anything other then that.

So once this law goes to the president how much longer will it take to go into effect if he passes it?

this is kinda creepy!

Kind Regards,
DigitalGRl

Originally posted by DigitalGrl
So once this law goes to the president how much longer will it take to go into effect if he passes it?

this is kinda creepy!

Kind Regards,
DigitalGRl

2008 we will living in 1939 germany, and good old fatherhood Security.

Originally posted by defcon5
In summery card is going to restrict movement, and ability to buy or sell, it will include prints from the hand and the eye, it may eventually be implantable, and crosses at least two boarders at present. How can any Christian such as myself ever be expected to accept such a device, and how can a President that considers himself a born again Christian push for such a device on his watch?

Born again Christain???

So you goto secret organizations called Skull and Bones, Worship Mollik at Bohemian Grove, Doing mock sacrifices of Small children???

Believe it or not, your president now has/is doing/done these things.

SO can I ask, what part is any of that being christain again??

What I find scary is that they can tag whatever they want on a defense bill and nobody dares to speak up.
If you dare to opose the Pentagon, you are anti-american, not patriotic enough or something.

Has military taken over the good ol' USA?

Yeah that is a bit scary. Whats even scarier is that sometimes that dont even read through the whole thing. and then stupid laws get passed. you know like the ones where it's illegal to chew gum or have onion breath. I think that is on the state level though, i learned about it in my last year of high school in Government class. Something about on the state level so many bills get presented that half the time they dont even read them. I thought that was crazy!

And also after reading this thread i was watching fox news and oreilly was talking about it. and was coming down hard on this lady in new york (gosh cant remember her position. i want to say senator (not hillary) but i think it was a step down from that).anyway...oreilly is saying that this lady in new york said that if it gets passed she is going to refuse to enforce it. And so he said that she was going against federal law and should have all federal funding removed from the state and that she should be removed from her position. now granted i think states should follow federal law..but if this ID is what i think it is..then i would be weary about taking it too.although this lady also said that when going to get a drivers license people shouldnt have to present ANY id at all...which i think is assine.

This id thing sounds good on the surface..get the illegals out, keep track of the terrorists and get em out, be able to track serial killers, and fugitives, but it seems like if we give the government that much power..especially if they make it mandatory that you implant them, that this is something that could be abused very easily.

also i was thinking about this..now i could be way off base here, because i dont know that much about implants..(im 19 ) but you know in that movie minority report with Tom cruise and how all the peoples info was stored in their eyes and so people would murder other people or steal eyes from dead people to become someone else? well if these id things were implanted...wouldnt it cause some of the same thing? Wouldnt fugitives or terrorists want to kill people in order to get their info because once you do...you are set. you have everything you need in one little chip.

what do you think? is that possible?

Kind Regards,
Digital GRl

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
So you goto secret organizations called Skull and Bones, Worship Mollik at Bohemian Grove, Doing mock sacrifices of Small children???

Believe it or not, your president now has/is doing/done these things.

SO can I ask, what part is any of that being christain again??

I am aware of Bohemian Grove (sp), the Skull and Bones and such. I am not saying that he is a Christian; I am saying that he CLAIMS to be a Christian, and has garnished support from Christian groups because of this.

Originally posted by paperclip
What I find scary is that they can tag whatever they want on a defense bill and nobody dares to speak up.
If you dare to opose the Pentagon, you are anti-american, not patriotic enough or something.

Has military taken over the good ol' USA?

Its not that the government is afraid to oppose the Pentagon or even the military, rather senators are not going to vote against a bill that is going to get soldiers killed. It is not generally good for your re-election campaign when your adversary can show that you voted against a bill that provided supplies needed to keep soldiers alive in combat. Plus there is the factor that some of the soldiers that are being effected most likely have friends and families that are in your constituency.

Originally posted by DigitalGrl
This id thing sounds good on the surface..get the illegals out, keep track of the terrorists and get em out, be able to track serial killers, and fugitives, but it seems like if we give the government that much power..especially if they make it mandatory that you implant them, that this is something that could be abused very easily.

It is does sound like a good idea on the surface, other then the fact I believe it would be against my religious beleifes, even I would have no issue with this. In its final form, it would greatly reduce almost all property crime and some forms of violent crime.

Originally posted by DigitalGrl

also i was thinking about this..now i could be way off base here, because i dont know that much about implants..(im 19 ) but you know in that movie minority report with Tom cruise and how all the peoples info was stored in their eyes and so people would murder other people or steal eyes from dead people to become someone else? well if these id things were implanted...wouldnt it cause some of the same thing? Wouldnt fugitives or terrorists want to kill people in order to get their info because once you do...you are set. you have everything you need in one little chip.

what do you think? is that possible?

Actually the billboards in minority report that were customizing themselves to Tom Cruise as he passed them are really being developed right now by companies such as Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is a huge test bed for RFID technology. Here in my town they have the self checkout isles, and you can tell which items are RFID’ed because when you scan them you hear a loud crackling noise from the scanner. That is the RFID being killed prior to you leaving the store with the item. They are not the normal magnets like they used to have on the counter to remove security devices from merchandise; those do not make any sound. Like I said these ones make a cracking/popping sound. Take a look on the web at groups like Caspian, or No-Cards, they are trying to block the use of RFID technology in shopping cards and the tracking of personal purchases.

Why is that important? Well for one thing stores have figured out that something like 80% of their profits are made from 10% of their customers. So they want to be able to track who their high profit customers are when they walk through the door to target them for special service and promotions. Everyone else they just treat as a normal person, but those that fall into the lower 50% of the profit scale, they consider a liability and will treat them like crap to get them to shop somewhere else. They consider those people a liability, someone that shows little profit and could potentially slip on a floor and sue them, or as a high risk of shop lifting, etc.

RFID in this type of card/implant will most likely be traceable from a distance (8 to 10 feet) and would contain your entire history eventually. Let’s say that once when you were a minor a friend talked you into lifting something from a store, well that history would follow you the rest of your life and every business that you went into would treat you like a potential shoplifter forever.

As far as people being killed to get to other peoples chips goes. The technology does not exist yet to be able to remove and replace body parts anywhere but a full on medical facility. Even then there is a high failure/rejection level. It might be possible to graph a finger from person on another, but to my knowledge, the nerve damage would make it not worth the effort. Eye transplants have been preformed, but I am not sure of the success rate and loss of function. It would be easy to remove and replace the chip, but replacing the finger prints or the retina to match the chip would be a difficult thing to accomplish. It is currently not something that you could have done illicitly like in the movie.

Yea i see what you mean. Yea i mean if this turns out to be what it sounds like it could be (the MARK) then yea its definatly against my religious beliefs LOL. but as of now im not worried about it. its just creepy. although i really just dont like anything invading my privacy.

when i said people murdering people for them i meant not like taking their body part but if its a chip...couldnt they just Cut it out of the persons wrist or wherever it is put and then place it within themselves? im picturing the implant i guess to be like a little square ya know..like the ones you see in the movies or the little square chips inside our computers. Like i said ..i dont know alot about chips so maybe thats not the kind they would use.

Kind Regards,
Digital Grl

Well right now it’s only supposed to be a card. People are already screaming about the identity theft that could go along with such a device. So the next step is to add a scan of your hand print to the database, then you have to present a card plus a thumb or hand scan. I cannot imagine that retina scans are going to be used for the majority of the people, only those in more secure positions, just due to the expense involved in retina scanning equipment. It is not too much of a jump to figure that eventually someone is going to push to have it implanted. Most people I know would however reject this method of ID for the same reason you or I would. So at what point does this become what we would both consider the mark. When its implanted, or once your information is in the database?
To me that is the big question here.