where did whites come from

I was just discussing the new pope with a coworker ( who is black ) and i mentioned how the papers had listed the black cardinal from africa as the favorite originally. Both he and i agreed before hand that there was no way they would have a black pope just becuase there would be such an outcry from the less open minded part of the church and its members. He also brought up the movie the passion and how the bible had said jesus was of darken skin with coarse hair ( cant remember the exact words) but of course old mel gibson wouldnt put an ethnic man as jesus becuase no one would go see the movie. He and i both agreed jesus was most likely a light skinned black or middle eastern given where the events in his life occured. However this got me to thinking about it , where did whites come into play? I mean if i follow history in the eveolutionary timeline and peoples migrations it seems that the earliest of man came from africa then migrated to the middle east and then to europe. Up until you get to europe historically i dont see whites being in the mix, maybe im overlooking something or just not up to speed on racial migratory patterns. Anyone care to elighten me?

Just a couple points to make. Jesus was a Jew, so that would make him look middleastern. Neither black nor white. Also, there have been a few black popes before. Granted, this was about a thousand years ago.

No, you're right, the lighter skin and hair seems to be an adaptation to Europe, not elsewhere.

As for Jesus, it's pretty clear he wasn't white, nor black, but of similar descent of most middle eastern people. The popular image of Jesus as a bearded caucasian is actually of King James, not a historic Jesus.

The choice for Pope is pretty obvious really, he was always the front-runner, and was pretty much already "Vice-Pope" as it was.

"Anyone care to elighten me? "

if I give you a fish, I will only feed you for a day......


www.google.com...

yes im aware jesus was a jew hoewver if you look at the general jewish faical charistics they are middleeastern as you stated and follow my statement of light skinned black man aka middle eastern man. I know there are likely people her who would want to slam me on that but middle eastern people and light skined africans have quite similiar skin and hair and i can easily see one begating the other. but still where do whites fit into the picture?

According to the Chrisitan Bible, God got really pissed way back in the day when people were building the tower of bable to get to Heaven or wherever so he dispursed everyone in the world throughout the world and gave them all differant languages as punishment.

I assume with the languages came skin color to adapt to wherever God put them at...ie: black-Africa, White-Europe, Really white-Snowy places like iceland sweden. (but im stuck on why native alaskins are tan.) oh well.

And from there people migrated throughout and languages developed from thier root languages.....and on and on etc etc....

[edit on 21/4/2005 by SportyMB]

syrinx high priest no offense however google will return the same bs crap that has been pumped into society that jesus and any other possible religious figure in history was cuacasion. Think about it when you see the poster that shows the evolution of man from ape to current man he is white isnt he.

Originally posted by minniescar
yes im aware jesus was a jew hoewver if you look at the general jewish faical charistics they are middleeastern as you stated and follow my statement of light skinned black man aka middle eastern man. I know there are likely people her who would want to slam me on that but middle eastern people and light skined africans have quite similiar skin and hair and i can easily see one begating the other. but still where do whites fit into the picture?

you answered your own question........and what exactly do you mean by white ? scandinavian ? western european ? (psst....see the pattern ?...)

SportyMB if the fair skin is for cold weather then how do you explain the dark skinned eskimos? And yes im aware they are likely indians that migrated to alaska but still eventual adaptation would lead to lightning of the skin.

It just puzzles me that man seemed to be in africa and the middle east then all the sudden we migrate to europe and we evolve that quickly to accomidate the sun for the area?????????

yes im aware jesus was a jew hoewver if you look at the general jewish faical charistics they are middleeastern as you stated and follow my statement of light skinned black man aka middle eastern man. I know there are likely people her who would want to slam me on that but middle eastern people and light skined africans have quite similiar skin and hair and i can easily see one begating the other.

No, the two peoples may have dark skin and hair, but the similarity pretty much ends there. There are a whole host of other genetic markers and differences here. Not to mention, the societal roles of true blacks in the region at the time would have made it all but impossible. Having lived in the middle east myself, I can tell you there is QUITE a difference, even in the darkest skinned arab.

but still where do whites fit into the picture?

Well, most Jews of the time were about indistinguishable from the arabs at a glance. White jews are of course more from European jews then coming back to Isreal and surrounding areas, interbreeding, etc. Byrd's probably the best to ask on this one though..

you answered your own question........and what exactly do you mean by white ? scandinavian ? western european ? (psst....see the pattern ?...)

I can see what your saying i mean complection fair skinned , i myself could die my hair dark and get a good tan and pass for middle eastern thanks to my facial structure and my hair texture but im more interested in the fair skinned soft haired people.

Originally posted by minniescar
SportyMB if the fair skin is for cold weather then how do you explain the dark skinned eskimos?

HELLO McFly!!!! The classics are great..
Im joking

Read my post, you ask me a question that I previously said I have no clue on. Here's a refresher.

(but im stuck on why native alaskins are tan

.) oh well.

I believe that dark skinned eskimos (as you say)
and native alaskins (as I say) are the same group of people.

But for real man...I have no idea, good topic.

I'm a red-head, norweigian and irish and english.

my grandma always told me the vikings gave the red hair to the irish ! (if you know what I mean)

I don't think it would take to long for natural selection to weed out folks that couldn't survive in northern or western europe, maybe 15,000 years, but thats a wild guess.....

Eskimos are more descended from asiatic and native american stock.
This is especially apparent in their eye structure, and hair type.

Oddly enough, another one of the odd places I've lived (Kodiak AK), so I've got a bit of experience here as well.

Originally posted by mpeake
Just a couple points to make. Jesus was a Jew, so that would make him look middleastern. Neither black nor white. Also, there have been a few black popes before. Granted, this was about a thousand years ago.

There were a few popes from Africa, but they were from Northern Africa, while blacks predominate in subsaharan Africa, so likely these popes weren't black, but more middle eastern looking.

SportyMB if the fair skin is for cold weather then how do you explain the dark skinned eskimos? And yes im aware they are likely indians that migrated to alaska but still eventual adaptation would lead to lightning of the skin.

My guess is that they have not occupied Alaska long enough to get white.

According to google, the oldest remains found in Alaska date back about 9200-10000 years.

www.google.com...

Is that long enough "evolution" to make a drastic change such as skin color of people in a certian locale?

We have no way of knowing the true skin color of Jesus, and it means nothing anyway. Mankind seems to have originated out of Africa and migrated into other regions. Those that migrated into northern regions lost the melanin in their skin due to the lower levels of light and the need to be protected from the sun. He may very well have been born of white parents that had traveled to that region from the north. 2000 years ago that area was a hub of trade with many people moving around to make money or fight wars. He could have been very very dark or white and blonde, we have no way of knowing and it just isn't important, we are all one species no matter our little differences.................

He could have been very very dark or white and blonde, we have no way of knowing and it just isn't important, we are all one species no matter our little differences.................

Very true, but it's a lot like the pink elephant in the room. Everyone knows it's there, but nobody wants to talk about it... (racial differences that is)

No, the two peoples may have dark skin and hair, but the similarity pretty much ends there. There are a whole host of other genetic markers and differences here. Not to mention, the societal roles of true blacks in the region at the time would have made it all but impossible. Having lived in the middle east myself, I can tell you there is QUITE a difference, even in the darkest skinned arab.

When i was in africa parts of the sudan i personlally thought the opposite the people in that area fell in a category of a mix which could be just interacial breeding. Now granted the people on the other side of the coast are distinctly different in facial features and skin color however it just seemed to me that it was allmost like a transition as you went across africa going from extremely dark to dark complected as you approach egypt. I just atributed this to migration and evolutionary changes due to enviroment.

We have no way of knowing the true skin color of Jesus,

Truth be known thats not really what im after its just a subject that got my mind wondering about the question at hand. as to where the pale skin just seems to pop up in the grand scheme of things. For instance they found skeletal remains in ethiopia that date back 160,000 years and from what im understanding they beleive man originated in that area then migrated. Then of course you look at the native people and you dont see any whites so if that where man began to come from where did this mutation come from?

Quote: "where did Whites come into play?"

Think of the whole thing as an ever on-going game of "Tug of War". You can either "Judacize" Christianity or you can "Paganize" Christianity (or you can actually be a True Christian - Imagine that)! When it first started Christianity had a very Jewish Tinge to it (Jesus & his Followers were Liberal Jews). But don't think that the WAR that the Jews had with the Roman Occupiers of their HomeLand back then just abruptly Ended with the Death of Jesus! No, it waged on & the Original Judeo-Christians were eventually Killed off. A funny thing happened however - the Religion was eventually Assimilated into Greco-Roman Culture. Now since the Greeks & the Romans were mostly PAGANS & Not Jewish - the Religion started to become Slanted in that Direction (instead of Worshiping the God of the Jews or Whatever Jesus' "Abba/Father" God was) they started to Worship "Jesus Christ" as a "Man become a God". It wasn't until the Renaissance & Lutheran Reformation Periods that the European people started to break away from the *ABSOLUTE DOMINANCE* of the Vatican (remember the Vatican was launching Inquisitions to take out all threats to their Power before this point – this is known as the “Dark Age”) & start to translate the Original Hermetic Documents (Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Coptic) & Scriptures to their Native Languages (instead of the Latin Translations that were used Prior) = German, English, French, Italian, Spanish & so on. That is when they realized that Jesus wasn't Calling Himself GOD - but was referring to his personal God - the "Living God". A Benevolent God no Doubt!

Does this explain how a "Middle Eastern" or "Semitic" Jewish Jesus came to be portrayed as a White European looking dude? Everyone wants "God" or the "Savior" to look like themselves – after all it says right there in Genesis: "God Created Man in his Image".


Oh back to your Original Question - You will find a Lot of Whites in Areas like England & Northern Europe - it Rains & Snows a lot there -> Lots of Clouds = Less Sun. Genetically there is a study out there that shows that "White" People started out in the Northern India & Northern Iranian Regions (the "Caucasus" Mountain Region is In-between Turkey, Iran & Russia). They then Migrated into Europe. This is the “Indo-European” Theory. This is why "Eastern Europe" seems to be such a Mish Mash of Cultures!


[edit on 21-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 21-4-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]