Foresight by Clifford Simak

Hello ATS!

Even as a child, I adored science fiction books, including Western science fiction books. I read these books, but then, due to my age, I could not appreciate the full power of the social and political foresight of the authors. And only now sometimes an epiphany occurs in me, and I understand how science fiction writers could foresee the state of society in the future. And their future is today.

But, closer to the topic.

Even 50 years ago (1968), science fiction writer Clifford Simak wrote the book “Goblin Reserve”, which hit the bull’s eye for 2022:

“The advertisement says that you can take the quest,” said the Half-Elf to the burgomaster. “But it doesn’t explain what the point is. Could you please clarify?
“Yes, it’s simple,” the burgomaster shrugged. “You see that hill over there?” A goblin with a grenade launcher sat on it. And periodically shells the city. That, in fact, is the whole problem.
- Yeah, I see. We need to kill the goblin...
- What are you, what are you!? - The burgomaster widened his eyes and waved his hands. - - Under no circumstances should he be killed!
“Why?” the Dwarf was surprised. “It’s a goblin!”
- That's it! If we kill him, the world community will say that this is genocide, and we are racists.
- So what? Let him say what he wants.
“And he will bring in troops,” the burgomaster finished his thought gloomily.
- Hmm... - the Half-Elf thought. - So, this asshole shoots at you with a grenade launcher, and you endure it and don’t dare fight back?
“We don’t dare,” the burgomaster spread his hands. “Otherwise we will be called aggressors.”
- Well, okay, but what if, say, you don’t kill the goblin, but drive him somewhere far away?
- From his hill? Impossible. Then we will be called occupiers.
— Catch and take away the grenade launcher?
- Expropriators.
“Put them under lock and key along with a grenade launcher?.. Okay, okay, don’t answer,” the Half-Elf said quickly when the burgomaster opened his mouth. “I understand everything.” Indeed, an interesting case.
“Well, what do you want from us?” the Princess could not resist. “You can’t kill, you can’t disarm, you can’t catch and drive away either, and then what remains?” Re-educate? This is not our profile.
- No, what are you... We would call a psychologist for such work. But, by the way, then the world community would accuse us of exerting psychological pressure.
“And in the desecration of original traditions,” added the Dwarf, shaking his head gravely. “Shooting at little people with a grenade launcher is sacred to goblins!”
“That’s it,” the burgomaster exclaimed joyfully, “you understand me.”
“Well, what is required of us?” the Princess interjected again.
“Bring the parcel,” the burgomaster sighed.
- To whom? Goblin?
- Well, yes. After all, there are no food supplies there on the hill. In an hour, the goblin will get hungry, declare a truce and begin negotiations. He does this every day. He demands that they bring him food, wine, weapons, sometimes something else... And then, when he has had enough, he declares that the peace negotiations have reached a dead end and he is forced to resume fire. The world community sympathizes with him very much. He thinks he is principled.
- And if you refuse to provide him with food and weapons...
- Then they will say about us that...
“Okay, okay, we understand,” the Half-Elf waved his hands.
“...and they will bring in troops,” muttered the burgomaster.
- Well, okay, but why do you need us? They would have sent one of their own to carry the bag.
- They have already sent it. Nobody returned.
- What, the goblin killed them all?
- He claims no.
- A...
“And the world community believes him.”
- A...
“And then they will say that we are provocateurs.” You see, it is he, the goblin, who is taking a peaceful initiative, this is his gesture of goodwill. And if something went wrong, it is only our fault. It's obvious! And you... well, it seems like strangers, he may not touch you.
“Okay,” the Half-Elf summed up. “If we put aside all the political fluff, then we are required to take the package from the customer and take it to the client, right?” Regular mail quest. And everything else is just your problem. So?
“That’s right,” the burgomaster confirmed, “so we’ve agreed?”
“Deal with each other,” nodded the Half-Elf. The burgomaster sighed with relief.
“Can I ask a question?” the Princess raised her hand. “You’re so afraid that the world community will call you aggressors, or militarists, or something worse - but what does it call you now?”
“Idiots,” answered the burgomaster sadly.”

(C) Clifford Simak
"Goblin Sanctuary"
1968

Please meditate on this passage.

Thank you.

Sounds like that parable of the wheat and tares. It is about letting the weeds grow with the food. Yield gets impacted by the weeds, as for the quality of the fruit when in a more diverse biome?

I don't know. Do what you have to to survive. As for finding quality nourishment these day, I'm still a noob.

a reply to: kwaka

Sounds like Hamas on Gaza and I sympathize with the innocent on both sides. Hamas is mucking things up as bad as the C_A and the puppet masters of the Mossad.

Things haven't changed much since 1968 (56 years ago) or this writer was a true prophet.

a reply to: RussianTroll

Please meditate on this passage.

A long time ago I had a conversation with my friend how the evil advertisers try to brainwash the masses with subliminal messages. And she made a really succinct observation; that in order to be brainwashed people must have some brains to begin with.

I admit I haven't read Goblin Sanctuary. But I watched the Lord of the Rings. I read the Orcs are just another name for goblins. If so, then the guys from the Shire didn't have such moral dilemmas like the protagonists from your story:



Please, meditate on this

originally posted by: twistedpuppy
a reply to: RussianTroll

Please meditate on this passage.

A long time ago I had a conversation with my friend how the evil advertisers try to brainwash the masses with subliminal messages. And she made a really succinct observation; that in order to be brainwashed people must have some brains to begin with.

I admit I haven't read Goblin Sanctuary. But I watched the Lord of the Rings. I read the Orcs are just another name for goblins. If so, then the guys from the Shire didn't have such moral dilemmas like the protagonists from your story:

Please, meditate on this

Well, that sounds cute. The real deal is the LESS brain capacity the easier to manipulate. Some people are like a book you can read others, not so. Some of us need help chewing gum and walking down the street while others are smooth operators of their selves and thinking for your self makes you that way. Letting thoughts scare you into believing things is a trick used by those that practice human manipulation.

a reply to: RussianTroll


So...the moral of the story is that progressivism...requires labeling...to effectively...cancel...rationality...

The application of certain modifiers...as accusation of intent...where none need be present...is used to bludgeon disagreement into subservience...and progressivism wins another increment...in it's long line of incremental steps that such labeling browbeats those willing to swallow...in order to..."go along to get along"...

.Racist
.Micro aggressor
.Expropriator

And further...privileged...white...homophobic...caustic...masculine...

And the beat goes on...

And incrementalism...ushers in on tiny baby feet...and calls itself progress...when in fact it only inculcates regression...
And classism...and the antithesis of multiculturalism...and diversity...and multipolarity...


The true shame...is that populations allow themselves to be swayed by injustice...posing as justice...and make the choice to be good herd animals...as they're led by the nose to the abattoir...


Clifford D. Simak...was certainly prescient in his descriptive analysis...of those who exercise control of the narrative...


Thank you my friend...for provoking some small thought on my part...


YouSir

originally posted by: YouSir
a reply to: RussianTroll


So...the moral of the story is that progressivism...requires labeling...to effectively...cancel...rationality...

The application of certain modifiers...as accusation of intent...where none need be present...is used to bludgeon disagreement into subservience...and progressivism wins another increment...in it's long line of incremental steps that such labeling browbeats those willing to swallow...in order to..."go along to get along"...

.Racist
.Micro aggressor
.Expropriator

And further...privileged...white...homophobic...caustic...masculine...

And the beat goes on...

And incrementalism...ushers in on tiny baby feet...and calls itself progress...when in fact it only inculcates regression...
And classism...and the antithesis of multiculturalism...and diversity...and multipolarity...


The true shame...is that populations allow themselves to be swayed by injustice...posing as justice...and make the choice to be good herd animals...as they're led by the nose to the abattoir...


Clifford D. Simak...was certainly prescient in his descriptive analysis...of those who exercise control of the narrative...


Thank you my friend...for provoking some small thought on my part...


YouSir

You seriously expect anyone to make sense out of this word salad?

It's a total mess and almost incomprehensible.

a reply to: SchrodingersRat

I think the clue might be with Clifford D. Simak, who I had to look up, and find he is a SF writer.
Rainbows
Jane

I began reading SF in earnest in the early 60s. Heinlein and Asimov were the first, then for me came Simak. i spent several years catching up on his novels until I caught up and began waiting from year to year for his next publication. Simak was if I recall a newspaper man. He wrote columns and articles in Minneapolis if I remember correctly.

One of his strong points, along with others was that he believed that ''good'' SF needed to be rooted in concrete science. He called it something like ''realistic''? fiction, I called it ''speculative'' fiction .

a reply to: SchrodingersRat

Indeed. And some folk seem to think Orwell's 1984 is a blueprint and not a warning?

a reply to: RussianTroll
That was sublime in its prescience!!! (I hope that sentence translates well for you)

Of course, most of the people who feel compelled to enter your threads and cast their baseless aspersions upon you, will have no understanding whatsoever of your meaning in posting this thread!

You are one of my most favorite ATS members, and I will take this opportunity to apologize for all the ridiculous, propaganda soaked ignoramus's who insist on believing that current day Russia is equivalent to the worst Communist regimes of the old USSR!

Thank you for remaining constant in your patience, that the more erudite among us may continue enjoying your company here!

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

The thing about Simak, Orwell,Huxley,Golding and others is that they could read the hidden trends of their times. They were well read and knowledgeable in the emerging sciences of their days. The blossoming of psychology and sociology and social studies. They were speculators taking those things that most of their day did not even think about at all and turned them into the gems we know so well today.

originally posted by: BingoMcGoof
I began reading SF in earnest in the early 60s. Heinlein and Asimov were the first, then for me came Simak. i spent several years catching up on his novels until I caught up and began waiting from year to year for his next publication. Simak was if I recall a newspaper man. He wrote columns and articles in Minneapolis if I remember correctly.

One of his strong points, along with others was that he believed that ''good'' SF needed to be rooted in concrete science. He called it something like ''realistic''? fiction, I called it ''speculative'' fiction .

It's called "Hard Science Fiction" now. It's Sci-Fi rooted in real world science, just advanced.

a reply to: YouSir

Hello, my friend Yusir. I want to share an excerpt from a story by another science fiction writer, Stanislav Lem.
The star traveler flies to the planet Meopsera and ends up on Earth in the USA:


“Then a creature in white came up, adjusted my pillow and said:

- Don’t be upset, every time we have dozens of such cases, at least. Last month, three old women were crushed to death. Now you can sleep, just tell me the address where to send the bill.

Not knowing what to answer, I excused myself with a headache. Left alone, I once again mentally went over all the extraordinary adventures I had experienced in such a short time. Nothing like this has ever happened to me on any of the thousands of planets I have visited. After lunch, a dozen and a half tall Merkans suddenly appeared in the hall. They surrounded the beds and began asking us about our impressions. One of them, having found out that I was a foreigner, became interested in me. We started asking each other various questions. Only from him did I learn that the ceremony, which I mistook for a religious ceremony, was just an atomic drill.

—Are you at war with another planet? - I asked.

- No.

- So why these teachings?

- Because they threaten us.

“Ah, I understand,” I remembered the doc’s words. “Rusha is threatening you, right?”

- Yes.

- Badly. And Rasha created this weapon, right?

- No, we opened it.

- That's how it is! - I said. - But Russia threatens you? Could you somehow come to an agreement with her? For example, ban the use of these weapons?

— There has already been such a proposal.

- So what?

- He was rejected.

— I understand that Russia didn’t agree to it?

- No, we rejected it.

- Why?

- Because they threaten us.

“I understand,” I said, after thinking. - Russia used this weapon against someone, and you are afraid that now...

- No, we were the first to use it. We destroyed two Jeep cities.

- Yes? But perhaps now Rasha is threatening to use it against you?

- No. She states that she wants peace.

“Mira?.. This is quite strange...” I said. - Now... Oh, I understand: she says that she wants peace, but at the same time she conducts such nuclear drills in all cities, right?

“No,” answered the Merkan. — I was there a month ago. They don't raise any alarms.

- Not satisfied?

- No.

- So why are you organizing it?

- Because they threaten us.

- Who?

- I already told you. Rasha is threatening us.

“Yes?..” I said. “I must say that I don’t understand anything at all.” Obviously, your logic is completely different from the earthly one.

I noticed that some short individual had been listening to our conversation for quite some time, who disappeared somewhere at the last words of my interlocutor. When everyone left, the Mercanian lying on the next bed said to me:

- You are careless; You can't say such things. There is a price to pay for this.

Before I had time to answer, four tall Merkans dressed in dark blue suits entered the hall, stomping loudly. They ordered me to immediately get up and follow them. A white creature appeared and tried to protect me, explaining that I was sick and that my arm was broken, but this did not help. I was hastily dressed and taken downstairs, where a large black carriage was already waiting.

We drove very quickly and in a few minutes we were at our destination. There was a terrible buzz in the building where I was taken. After a while I was pushed into a bright room. Three Merkans were sitting at the table. One of them, obviously the main one, demanded my documents. After looking through them, he shook, hit the table with his hand and shouted:

-Are you Merkanian?

“No,” I answered, “I’m a man.”

“I’ll show you ridicule,” he growled, jumping up. -Where did you come from here?

- I arrived recently...

- Had arrived? Gotcha, darling! Will you confess?

- What?.. What does this mean? - I exclaimed.

- Don't wiggle, it won't help you. You don't like the atomic bomb, do you? Spying for Rashi?

“Nothing like that,” I shouted. - I’ve never even been to this planet...

“They tell you, don’t pretend to be crazy, you’ll regret it,” growled the main one. - What were you looking for from us, huh?

“I was flying to Meopsera, to the Muciochs, and since the map was erased, I mistakenly ended up here, to Merka...

- You are a bastard! — the chief growled again.

Then he suddenly calmed down and said:

- Once you sit for a while, you will lose the desire to joke. You know very well that you are not on Mercy at all, but before the Commission to Investigate Un-American Activities in the United States. First you criticize our foreign policy, and now you pretend to be innocent? Don't worry, you won't sing like that with me. I haven't seen anything like that.

At that moment it was as if scales fell from my eyes. From the moment I met the first creature, I was tormented by the fact that I could not figure out exactly what language the native dialect reminded me of. Now it’s clearer in my head: well, of course, it was a distorted, mutilated English language. I fell victim to an error caused by a difference in pronunciation: Merka was America, Russia was Russia, China was China, Jeeps were Japanese, Abe was atomic bomb, and so on.

My hair stood on end: I had never found myself in such a difficult situation. I felt that my fate would be unenviable, and I was not mistaken, for I am writing these lines in the New York investigative prison, where I have been for four months now. I'm afraid that I will have to postpone my trip to Meopsera for an indefinite period of time..."

(c) Stanislav Lem "Star Diaries of Ijon the Quiet" (Dzienniki gwiazdowe) 1959

a reply to: lostgirl

Thank you my friend. I appreciate your attitude and opinion.

a reply to: RussianTroll


I've read both Clifford D. Simak...and Stanislaw Lem...unfortunately a long time ago...

What you've illustrated is that they used the worldview of their time and extrapolated what the future might...and indeed did become...due to the intransigent and absurd actions of the political/intelligence mindset of the deep state...and it's iron control of the narrative...

I also cut my teeth on Science fiction...and to this day I read as much of it as I have time for...It's my favorite genre...

What I find fascinating...is that even when authors imagine futuristic societies...they always invariably project all of humanities blatant character flaws...into their creations...into their imagined futures...

What this observation portrays...is a monumental lack of consideration that any evolution or age of enlightenment...awaits their future considerations and extrapolations...

Which also thoroughly squares and coincides with my own observations of humanity...and the glaring truth of our innate natures...both as individual...and as members of any given tribe...

Then as I attempt to juxtapose the honest appraisal of my own nature...where a large part of self strives for comprehension of the endless ocean of compassion and desire for union with creation and it's creator...yet...still the acknowledgement and acceptance of that apex predator that also shares the same place within any healthy consideration of the truth of that which is constituent...

I...as did those authors...conclude that there is only the appearance of illogic in attempting to define the nature of western narratives...and pursuits by the powers that be...however inimical they appear even to their own populations...not to mention as extrapolated to any of the cardinal directions not currently under their direct control...

The west is at war...primarily...first with itself...and also then projected to your country...and those beyond...

Not...certainly...because there is any racial or ethnic imperative...or survival consideration...
Merely because power does corrupt...and therein lies the logic...that in the midst of corruption...is the imperative to conquer even righteousness...and truth...and compassion...

These inner dialogs play out daily in every individual mind and heart...yet what a ferocious beast they engender...when collectively...enough surrender will...to the collective...

What a monumental task...to both accept as whole...these disparate aspects of inner nature...and exist at their apex...at center mass...and not surrender will or sense to the collective...


YouSir

a reply to: RussianTroll

Awww! How nice to hear about Polish writers!

Sir, you're like Jesus communicating with your disciples via parables. Maybe this time you'll manage to get your point across... Or not. Because divine wisdom is apparently beyond the reach of ordinary mortals. So it's safer to speak directly.

There's just one thing that I need to sort out. Jesus spoke in the name of God Almighty and, being his Son, he had some say in God's kingdom. So my question is:

Who are you to speak in the name of your country and your government? Because, allegedly, you're an ordinary guy living in Saratov. And, being an ordinary chap from Saratov, you have no say in anything, no influence on anything. Nothing you say here is going to change anything.

And yet here you go in multiple threads giving assurances like: Russsia is harmless, Russia wants peace, Russia doesn't attack anyone unprovoked, it's just the US and Ukraine who started it all (which has already proved to be wrong), enough of fear mongering, no need to be afraid of Russia etc.

I will sue you if you turn out to be wrong (provided I'll live long enough) or better yet, using my shady ancestry, I'll pack my bags and move in to you as a repatriate. Pray for tomorrow but get a room ready.

a reply to: twistedpuppy


Ummm…”Methinks the Lady doth protest too much”…

Perhaps…if you included in your narrative…some balance…?

There are ample…blatant…daily examples of the very corrupt nature of your preferred regime…that it rings specious for you to constantly harangue any other…because they chose to champion their own point of view…

Your own regime…is corrupt to it’s core…does not have your personal interests at heart…strives only to perpetuate itself at your expense…is the major cause of conflict…bloodshed…and destruction…occupies sovereign nations and thieves their resources…and on…and on…and on…

Yet…you never speak to any of that…you only speak with the voice of denigration and ridicule…as you point your finger outward…all while giving cover to the vile constructs you choose to champion…and effortlessly swallowing their programming…


It really isn’t a sin to see the world through a different perspective…being overly selective of one’s personal programmed mindset…however…does get a tad repetitious…and programmed…






YouSir

a reply to: YouSir

"It really isn’t a sin to see the world through a different perspective…being overly selective of one’s personal programmed mindset…however…does get a tad repetitious…and programmed…"

I agree. I highly commend such an approach to your good self.