So this is what Hamas considers 'freedom fighting' ...

originally posted by: TheWoker
a reply to: network dude

the current conflict

Which one? The occupation is nothing recent, why ignore the past in order to solve the problems of the present?

I don't understand why people can't look at this from a simple right vs. wrong angle. The attack on October 7th was wrong, and there is nothing anyone can use to justify it.

Scholars on the subject simply disagree with this analysis, there's a few things to say about that. We're well past right and wrong since the IDF killed peaceful protesters during the "March of Return". Violence was just predictable at that point, hence we'll need a political solution. Not justifications to right another wrong like 5 year olds.

Question would be what's the holdup here? Likud, Hamas or both?

I think I see the problem. The War declared on Israel from HAMAS. HAMAS is a terrorist organization who's mission is to kill Jews. On October 7th 2023, they invaded Israel, killed and raped over 1000 people and took hostages, some who are still in captivity today. Just as the Vietnam war wasn't the same war as the Civil war, although the US was involved in both, this current war, isn't the 6 day war, or any other war, it's the current war. Current events caused it. Current leadership is in charge of it. If any of this isn't registering, please clarify what part, because it's difficult to have a conversation if one party doesn't grasp the facts.

originally posted by: TheWoker

Question would be what's the holdup here? Likud, Hamas or both?

Neither. The Palestinians have been rejecting peace agreements and the opportunity to have their own state since long before Likud or Hamas existed.

If the Palestinians want to end the "occupation" (I put it in quotes because until Oct 7, Gaza was factually not occupied and hadn't been for years), the first step would be a peace agreement.

Look at Egypt. Israel took land from them in a war. That happens in war. Borders often change in war, and then are under dispute until a peace deal and treaty are signed redefining new borders. This has happened countless times throughout history.

The Palestinians, though, are living in a fantasy and refuse to end the war. They're under this delusion that they will somehow defeat Israel and retake all the land "from the river to the sea." That's never, ever, ever going to happen, and the longer Western supporters help them maintain that delusion, the longer they suffer.

They lost the war. THEY. LOST. THE. WAR. It's over. The sooner they recognize that reality and make peace, the sooner they will gain statehood and start prospering like most of the rest of the Muslim countries in the region did when they realized never-ending war with Israel wasn't in their best interest.

As long as they continue operating from fantasy instead of reality, there will never be peace.

a reply to: network dude


So you've planned to reduce the whole conflict to a single terror attack as if you're Blinken preparing his speech? Wow. Amazing!
Vietnam is going to come up some more now, those protests really took off with the police violence. Makes me wonder what happens if our alleged Free Speech advocates discover this blatant suppression of Free Speech on campus. Nothing at all?

Cool.

No overlords No Slaves
From River to Sea
Palestinians WILL BE Free.

_________________________

originally posted by: ToneD
From River to Sea
Palestinians WILL BE Free.

ToneD chants the 'genocide of the jew' chant of Hamas,
who he calls 'freedom fighters'.

Here is what your 'freedom fighters' did to the children that they took hostage -
painfully branding them just like the Nazis did in WWII ...

Freedom fighters my ass!

Sun-Sentinel - Hamas Branded Child Hostages In Case They Escaped

“They told us stories about what they went through inside Gaza. The stories are horrible,” Yaniv Yaakov said during an event in North Macedonia with Foreign Minister Eli Cohen.

“Each child that was taken by Hamas was taken on a motorbike and they took every child, took his leg and put it on the exhaust of that motorbike, so they have a burn so they will be marked if they run, if they escape, so [Hamas] can find them.”

“They were drugged, they were treated so badly, but at least they are with us,” Yaakov added, but did not elaborate on what substance they were given.

Nati onal Post - Children Taken Hostage By Hamas Branded with Burn Marks

Every child that Hamas took was taken on a motorcycle, and they took each child and put their leg in front of the exhaust pipe, which caused a burn to mark the children so that in case they ran away or fled, they could find them'

Hostages report having been beaten, threatened with death, underfed, kept in cages and denied medical care.

Children were branded lest they escape, according to Yaniv Yaakov, the uncle of the brothers Or, 16, and Yagil, 12, who were freed on Nov. 27.

“Every child that Hamas took was taken on a motorcycle, and they took each child and put their leg in front of the exhaust pipe, which caused a burn to mark the children so that in case they ran away or fled, they could find them,” he said.

CBS News - Doctor Who Treated Freed Hamas Hostages Describes Physical Sexual and Psychological Abuse

There were also stories of hostages being branded (a common practice inflicted on Jews and other prisoners of Nazi concentration camps during the Holocaust), and of being sexually abused. "Yes, we did see signs of branding," Pessach said. "We definitely saw signs of being handcuffed. We did hear and see evidence of sexual abuse in a significant part of the people we have treated. We also heard evidence – and that was one of the hardest parts – of abuse against those that [are still there], both physical and sexual.

FoxNews - Hamas Branded Israeli Children

Former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett confirmed the details of the branding on social media platform X, saying, "We now know that Hamas terrorists who held hostage 13-year-old Yagel Yaacov and his brother Or, used a boiling hot motorcycle exhaust to ‘imprint’ a burn on their legs as a way to identify them if they try to escape."

"Let me repeat: They took a boiling piece of metal and pinned it to the legs of a helpless 13-year-old captive child," he added.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Honestly don't know how you maintain your patience with the Hamas trolls.

You deserve a medal.

Just as Nelson Mandela and South Africa regained Justice
for it's people and the world as a whole,
so will the Palestinian people.

The end of overlords,
will free the world from sea to sea.

Patriotism is not Obedience to government,
Patriotism is Obedience to the Principles
for which the government is supposed to stand.
Apartheid, racism are indefensible.

btw
Unlike apartheid terrorist israeli
Hamas Group Willing To Disarm for Two-State Solution.
news.antiwar.com...

_________________________

a reply to: ToneD

Says the chick who wants the UN to run the world.

“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face— forever.“

Orwell.

a reply to: NorthOS

Only that we see that happening in Gaza already, with oligarch cretins happily cheering for genocide.

Good moment to skip nation state bollocks entirely, and run everything via the UN. Most of the bourgeoise elite lost their collective minds over everything from Gaza to Ukraine and Russia anyway.

originally posted by: ToneD
Unlike apartheid terrorist israeli
Hamas Group Willing To Disarm for Two-State Solution.

NOPE. No they are not.

Quote from your own source - "that the Palestinian group would be open to a five-year truce with Israel and would disarm and become solely a political party."

Hamas is saying that they won't attack Israel for five years if there is a two state solution, meaning that they WILL attack Israel after five years. Hamas has not changed it's mission in life .... to destroy Israel and genocide the Jews. AND Considering this is Hamas and they lie and lie .. it would be sooner than five years from now that they attack Israel again, for sure. And Hamas demanded that they be allowed to stay in power. After October 7th, that can't happen.

BTW ... Your source SUCKS. No wonder you are so screwed up. Stop reading that garbage.

Israel has offered a two state solution many many times, and it's always been rejected by the so called 'palestinians'. Because of October 7th, Israel no longer is offering that. It's Hamas and the 'palestinians' fault. No one elses.

2 state solution

originally posted by: ToneD

news.antiwar.com...

_________________________

Their media bias rating is awful

It's no surprise to me that you get your news from terrible sources. You're among the most poorly-informed people on here.

a reply to: YourFaceAgain

Shooting the messenger where you go because...

You're among the most poorly-informed people on here.

Aight. Quick fact check on your "fact check"...

Hamas official says group would lay down its arms if an independent Palestinian state is established

Anyting to add that wouldn't be an insult to our intelligence? Nah. Thought so.

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a reply to: TheWoker

What's funny is you think you're bringing us news.

We're well aware that Hamas lies, you don't have to provide examples.

originally posted by: TheWoker
Aight. Quick fact check on your "fact check"...

Hamas official says group would lay down its arms if an independent Palestinian state is established.

And a quick fact check on your quick fact check ....

They said they'd lay down arms for a five year truce. That's it.
They have not given up their purpose ... to end Israel and genocide the Jews.
That's not making peace. That's not a two state solution.
Thats just Hamas licking their wounds and realizing they need a few years
to rebuild because Israel fought back and has severely hurt them.
Their intent to destroy Israel and genocide the Jews has not changed.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: TheWoker
Aight. Quick fact check on your "fact check"...

Hamas official says group would lay down its arms if an independent Palestinian state is established.

And a quick fact check on your quick fact check ....

They said they'd lay down arms for a five year truce. That's it.

That's assuming they could be trusted to even do that. They had a less formal truce going with Israel before Oct 7. They routinely lie about pretty much everything.

But antisemites who hate Jews are inclined to believe anything Hamas says, even though they've repeatedly proven themselves untrustworthy.