Hydroxychloroquine use during COVID pandemic may have induced 17,000 deaths

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain
a reply to: chr0naut

Good morning shill for Big Pharma. I'm sure they appreciate you continuing to donate your time for their profits like this. I admire your dedication.

Who, then, was manufacturing and selling HQC, and was significantly funding studies into using its product against COVID-19, if not big pharma?

LOL.

originally posted by: NorthOS
a reply to: chr0naut

Studies about it working or not on Covid and it killing thousands of people are two entirely different things.

Any study on how deadly boiled fruit and tonic water was prior to the vaccine sales pitch?

The studies showed that not only did HQC not work against COVID-19, but also that a higher ratio of people hospitalized with COVID-19 and treated with HQC, died. Read the studies.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain
a reply to: chr0naut

Good morning shill for Big Pharma. I'm sure they appreciate you continuing to donate your time for their profits like this. I admire your dedication.

Who, then, was manufacturing and selling HQC, and was significantly funding studies into using its product against COVID-19, if not big pharma?

LOL.

So now you have to pretend you're completely uninformed and uneducated about how pharmaceutical companies work.

You have to pretend you aren't aware that there's a lot more money to be made developing a new, patented drug, than selling an old, cheaper drug that's been on the market for decades and can be produced by anyone.

Your willingness to make yourself look dumb in order to protect the narrative never ceases to amaze me.

Edit: And for the mod he's about to shop for: I'm not calling him dumb. I just said he's making himself look dumb. There's a difference.

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain

originally posted by: FlyersFan

I question any study that makes the claim Hydroxychloroquine killed 17,000 people.
My own experience, along with knowing lots of people on it, say that it's a safe and effective drug.

It's not just your anecdotal experience. This is its historical profile. It IS a safe and effective drug. The "studies" purporting to prove it didn't help with Covid were so shoddy they could only have been done that badly on purpose.

A typical practice was to purposefully not follow the treatment regimen. Something like this:

--Doctors in other countries are reporting it helps if given to patients in the first 48-72 hours of displaying symptoms?
--Let's do a study. We'll wait until they're about to die and administer it, in half the recommended dose.
--Oh, the patient still died. This "proves" HCQ doesn't work. AND we can also falsely claim it kills people. Big Pharma will be thrilled.

This is not science. This is propaganda.

The different studies looked at HQC for specific uses, i.e: As a late stage therapeutic, as a post infection therapeutic and as a pre-infection preventative.

And HQC is a medicine, it isn't universally safe in any amount (you can overdose on it), it has interactions with other medicines, and is toxic in some people. It is rare, but people have died from it from before COVID-19 was even a thing.

The propaganda was that it was a wonder drug against COVID-19, which was BS, and popularized by someone who was unqualified to make medical recommendations, but did so for their own political purposes, and then his fanbois ran with it.

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain
a reply to: chr0naut

Good morning shill for Big Pharma. I'm sure they appreciate you continuing to donate your time for their profits like this. I admire your dedication.

Who, then, was manufacturing and selling HQC, and was significantly funding studies into using its product against COVID-19, if not big pharma?

LOL.

So now you have to pretend you're completely uninformed and uneducated about how pharmaceutical companies work.

You have to pretend you aren't aware that there's a lot more money to be made developing a new, patented drug, than selling an old, cheaper drug that's been on the market for decades and can be produced by anyone.

Your willingness to make yourself look dumb in order to protect the narrative never ceases to amaze me.

Edit: And for the mod he's about to shop for: I'm not calling him dumb. I just said he's making himself look dumb. There's a difference.

Advanz Pharma, who now owns Plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine), focuses on acquiring legacy and off-patent pharmaceuticals.

Advanz Pharma From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm fairly sure there are those that are dumber than I (I mean, imagine getting all wide eyed and crazy over self-contradictory conspiracy theories!)

The respirators and drugs they put you on when people were hospitalized did the same.

happy New Year

originally posted by: JAY1980
a reply to: WaESN
Sooo it's safe to say you are pro experimental vaccine then?

It's safe to say I did not (and do not) think Hydroxychloroquine was useful in treating Covid - and, per this new study, it would appears those treated with it had a higher chance of dying than those treated with more effective drugs.

I fail to see how vaccines come in to this at all?

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain

originally posted by: FlyersFan

I question any study that makes the claim Hydroxychloroquine killed 17,000 people.
My own experience, along with knowing lots of people on it, say that it's a safe and effective drug.

It's not just your anecdotal experience. This is its historical profile. It IS a safe and effective drug. The "studies" purporting to prove it didn't help with Covid were so shoddy they could only have been done that badly on purpose.

A typical practice was to purposefully not follow the treatment regimen. Something like this:

--Doctors in other countries are reporting it helps if given to patients in the first 48-72 hours of displaying symptoms?
--Let's do a study. We'll wait until they're about to die and administer it, in half the recommended dose.
--Oh, the patient still died. This "proves" HCQ doesn't work. AND we can also falsely claim it kills people. Big Pharma will be thrilled.

This is not science. This is propaganda.

The different studies looked at HQC for specific uses, i.e: As a late stage therapeutic, as a post infection therapeutic and as a pre-infection preventative.

And HQC is a medicine, it isn't universally safe in any amount (you can overdose on it), it has interactions with other medicines, and is toxic in some people. It is rare, but people have died from it from before COVID-19 was even a thing.

The propaganda was that it was a wonder drug against COVID-19, which was BS, and popularized by someone who was unqualified to make medical recommendations, but did so for their own political purposes, and then his fanbois ran with it.

The problem, science denier, is this isn't what happened. There were early reports from doctors in multiple countries that it was effective if used preventatively or during the early stages of infection.

Small studies entered publication in early 2020 showing this, as you can see in the data twice-linked now that you keep pretending doesn't exist. Also in the data you're ignoring since you're a science denier, you can see that studies have continued since then, including some large ones, showing it works if used as recommended.

The majority of the studies purporting to show it doesn't work are studies which exclusively gave it to patients in the later stages of infection, when it was already know it isn't effective then.

The propaganda was the medical establishment and media citing these studies as "evidence" that it was completely useless against Covid.

This continues today, as in the study cited in the OP, being reported by various outlets with lines like this:

The drug known as an anti-malarial for decades, hydroxychloroquine, was prescribed to patients by some doctors during the first wave of the Covid-19 pandemic “despite the absence of evidence documenting its clinical benefits.”

when that is absolutely, 100% demonstrably false, as evidenced by hundreds of studies showing its effectiveness that you pretend don't exist because you're a science denier.

Keep up that science denial.

originally posted by: Kenzo

a reply to: WaESN

HCQ for COVID-19: real-time meta analysis of 417 studies

HCQ for covid

I suggest that you click the lower link that you have supplied and look at the specific studies that show large percentages in red (i.e: where HQC performed poorly), and click on them, and see how many of those red flagged studies were excluded from the meta-analysis.

Also consider the size of many of the red flagged ratios. Like this one, with a minus 890% 'improvement'. Or this one.

Or this one where they suggest that these figures are not statistically significant?

It is clear that they have cherry-picked, and even falsified the data in this meta-analysis.

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain

originally posted by: FlyersFan

I question any study that makes the claim Hydroxychloroquine killed 17,000 people.
My own experience, along with knowing lots of people on it, say that it's a safe and effective drug.

It's not just your anecdotal experience. This is its historical profile. It IS a safe and effective drug. The "studies" purporting to prove it didn't help with Covid were so shoddy they could only have been done that badly on purpose.

A typical practice was to purposefully not follow the treatment regimen. Something like this:

--Doctors in other countries are reporting it helps if given to patients in the first 48-72 hours of displaying symptoms?
--Let's do a study. We'll wait until they're about to die and administer it, in half the recommended dose.
--Oh, the patient still died. This "proves" HCQ doesn't work. AND we can also falsely claim it kills people. Big Pharma will be thrilled.

This is not science. This is propaganda.

The different studies looked at HQC for specific uses, i.e: As a late stage therapeutic, as a post infection therapeutic and as a pre-infection preventative.

And HQC is a medicine, it isn't universally safe in any amount (you can overdose on it), it has interactions with other medicines, and is toxic in some people. It is rare, but people have died from it from before COVID-19 was even a thing.

The propaganda was that it was a wonder drug against COVID-19, which was BS, and popularized by someone who was unqualified to make medical recommendations, but did so for their own political purposes, and then his fanbois ran with it.

The problem, science denier, is this isn't what happened. There were early reports from doctors in multiple countries that it was effective if used preventatively or during the early stages of infection.

Small studies entered publication in early 2020 showing this, as you can see in the data twice-linked now that you keep pretending doesn't exist. Also in the data you're ignoring since you're a science denier, you can see that studies have continued since then, including some large ones, showing it works if used as recommended.

The majority of the studies purporting to show it doesn't work are studies which exclusively gave it to patients in the later stages of infection, when it was already know it isn't effective then.

The propaganda was the medical establishment and media citing these studies as "evidence" that it was completely useless against Covid.

This continues today, as in the study cited in the OP, being reported by various outlets with lines like this:

The drug known as an anti-malarial for decades, hydroxychloroquine, was prescribed to patients by some doctors during the first wave of the Covid-19 pandemic “despite the absence of evidence documenting its clinical benefits.”

when that is absolutely, 100% demonstrably false, as evidenced by hundreds of studies showing its effectiveness that you pretend don't exist because you're a science denier.

Keep up that science denial.

I am not denying any science.

The science shows that sometimes HQC for COVID-19 treatment and prevention looked fairly good, and sometimes it looked really bad.

Even in the early studies (most of which were in vitro, BTW) and even excluding any negative ones, the values still fluctuated wildly. So something was saying that the results were not reliable.

But of course there were also studies that were very negative to HQC, and in all stages of use against the disease, not just late stage.

In fact, some people hardly have a problem with COVID-19, or are asymptomatic, and some people die from it. The disease is variable, and therefore clinical results can make it appear that sometimes something works, but at other times it doesn't, and it is really easy to believe that something is actually doing stuff, especially when you are desperate.

Then again, go back to those pages that try and meta analyse results, and look at the really big numbers. They are the things that stand above the noise of the variability of the disease progression.

That's the science.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain

originally posted by: FlyersFan

I question any study that makes the claim Hydroxychloroquine killed 17,000 people.
My own experience, along with knowing lots of people on it, say that it's a safe and effective drug.

It's not just your anecdotal experience. This is its historical profile. It IS a safe and effective drug. The "studies" purporting to prove it didn't help with Covid were so shoddy they could only have been done that badly on purpose.

A typical practice was to purposefully not follow the treatment regimen. Something like this:

--Doctors in other countries are reporting it helps if given to patients in the first 48-72 hours of displaying symptoms?
--Let's do a study. We'll wait until they're about to die and administer it, in half the recommended dose.
--Oh, the patient still died. This "proves" HCQ doesn't work. AND we can also falsely claim it kills people. Big Pharma will be thrilled.

This is not science. This is propaganda.

The different studies looked at HQC for specific uses, i.e: As a late stage therapeutic, as a post infection therapeutic and as a pre-infection preventative.

And HQC is a medicine, it isn't universally safe in any amount (you can overdose on it), it has interactions with other medicines, and is toxic in some people. It is rare, but people have died from it from before COVID-19 was even a thing.

The propaganda was that it was a wonder drug against COVID-19, which was BS, and popularized by someone who was unqualified to make medical recommendations, but did so for their own political purposes, and then his fanbois ran with it.

The problem, science denier, is this isn't what happened. There were early reports from doctors in multiple countries that it was effective if used preventatively or during the early stages of infection.

Small studies entered publication in early 2020 showing this, as you can see in the data twice-linked now that you keep pretending doesn't exist. Also in the data you're ignoring since you're a science denier, you can see that studies have continued since then, including some large ones, showing it works if used as recommended.

The majority of the studies purporting to show it doesn't work are studies which exclusively gave it to patients in the later stages of infection, when it was already know it isn't effective then.

The propaganda was the medical establishment and media citing these studies as "evidence" that it was completely useless against Covid.

This continues today, as in the study cited in the OP, being reported by various outlets with lines like this:

The drug known as an anti-malarial for decades, hydroxychloroquine, was prescribed to patients by some doctors during the first wave of the Covid-19 pandemic “despite the absence of evidence documenting its clinical benefits.”

when that is absolutely, 100% demonstrably false, as evidenced by hundreds of studies showing its effectiveness that you pretend don't exist because you're a science denier.

Keep up that science denial.

I am not denying any science.

The science shows that sometimes HQC for COVID-19 treatment and prevention looked fairly good, and sometimes it looked really bad.

Even in the early studies (most of which were in vitro, BTW) and even excluding any negative ones, the values still fluctuated wildly. So something was saying that the results were not reliable.

But of course there were also studies that were very negative to HQC, and in all stages of use against the disease, not just late stage.

Again you misrepresent the facts and deny the science. No surprise, as you pretty much never post honestly.

No, science denier, it wasn't just oh sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

When used as recommended by the doctors who worked with it early on, the data shows a clear, consistent benefit.

It doesn't work for everyone, of course, no medicine does. The cause of the fluctuations are rather obvious to anyone who thinks: it's off-label usage. (I'll wait while you look that up.) The overall benefit is clear and incontrovertible.

The majority of studies showing it "doesn't work" were late stage, and it was already known it didn't work then. The studies done in other stages which show no benefit are vastly outnumbered by those showing it helps.

Before there were alternative treatments available, this drug could've saved lives if it wasn't torpedoed by dishonest media and elites. The people you worship literally got people killed with their fake narrative against this drug for political purposes and profit. And you support that.

Ironically your statement here:

The science shows that sometimes HQC for COVID-19 treatment and prevention looked fairly good, and sometimes it looked really bad.

,
while inaccurate, accidentally proves my assertion that the propaganda was AGAINST the drug, as the media is running around saying there is NO EVIDENCE of ANY benefit from the drug for covid treatment, which by your own admission here is a fake narrative.

See what happens when your default impulse is lying? Eventually you can't keep your lies straight and you wind up proving the other guy's position.

Now run along, kid. I know better than to keep wasting my time with your closed mind. I just wanted to point out your bs for anyone else who might be reading. There's probably a "Government Please Oppress Me More" rally you can attend.

a reply to: WaESN

Ohhhhh Okay so that is why all of the Warehouses that Had Hydroxychloroquine in them were sabotaged and destroyed .

They were trying to save people from Hydroxychloroquine a drug that is not Toxic and is prescribed all the time ALL OVER THE WORLD.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain
a reply to: chr0naut

Good morning shill for Big Pharma. I'm sure they appreciate you continuing to donate your time for their profits like this. I admire your dedication.

Who, then, was manufacturing and selling HQC, and was significantly funding studies into using its product against COVID-19, if not big pharma?

LOL.

Lol I bet you set your keyboard on fire when you saw this OP , Those typing fingers were Flying zzzoooooooommmm !!

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
a reply to: WaESN

Ohhhhh Okay so that is why all of the Warehouses that Had Hydroxychloroquine in them were sabotaged and destroyed .

They were trying to save people from Hydroxychloroquine a drug that is not Toxic and is prescribed all the time ALL OVER THE WORLD.

That's the thing, this drug has a long history and safety record. Of course if you dig you can find adverse reactions, like with any drug, but they are rare.

So even if it was only mildly effective at reducing covid severity when used as directed, it would still be worth it since there's not much risk associated with it.

Instead, they're running around pretending not only will the drug not help AT ALL (false), it will kill you! (also false.)

And it's not even close. It's not a judgement call, it's not subjective. There's an enormous body of evidence now that that was a fake narrative and it is evidence of an extreme amount of corruption at the highest levels of the medical establishment and many of the world's governments.

But orange man bad, Big Government and Big Pharma gods, so all the lives that could've been saved were worth sacrificing. So goes the thinking of worshipers of the new-age, big-government religion.

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
a reply to: WaESN

Ohhhhh Okay so that is why all of the Warehouses that Had Hydroxychloroquine in them were sabotaged and destroyed .

They were trying to save people from Hydroxychloroquine a drug that is not Toxic and is prescribed all the time ALL OVER THE WORLD.

So, there was a shortage of HQC after all these alleged fires everywhere?

They must have rebuilt the factories quickly. Current Drug Shortages

False claim: Two factories producing magnesium stearate, an ingredient used in a drug touted as a potential COVID-19 treatment, blown up simultaneously

Could it be that you were informed by social media, or a site like 'Natural News'?

There was 'a' fire in Taiwan: Filipino worker dies in drug firm blaze

a reply to: WaESN

Hydroxychloroquine was approved for medical use in the United States in 1955. It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines. In 2020, it was the 126th most commonly prescribed medication in the United States, with 4.99 million prescriptions.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Im no doctor, but it only took Merck 5 years to yank Vioxx. Of course, Vioxx was not considered an "essential medicine" by the WHO.

That damn WHO, calling medications "essential" when they're really super deadly. Somebody really oughta do something about this.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: stosh64
This study brought to you by Pfizer & Moderna.

The majority of authors in this paper were French academics. There was a Canadian. I see no links to Moderna or Pfizer.

HQC was touted as a therapeutic but was proven to be ineffective well before the immunizations were available.

This study is just putting some statistics behind the bad advice given at the time by 'the conspirosphere' and supplements marketers like the FLCCC.

It's called a joke, look into it.

and can you cite the studies done prior to the vaccine's being available please.

Three big studies dim hopes that hydroxychloroquine can treat or prevent COVID-19 - Article in Science, 9th June 2020.

Praised by presidents as a potential miracle cure

why not use a Mother Jones link. You make me smile

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: stosh64
This study brought to you by Pfizer & Moderna.

The majority of authors in this paper were French academics. There was a Canadian. I see no links to Moderna or Pfizer.

HQC was touted as a therapeutic but was proven to be ineffective well before the immunizations were available.

This study is just putting some statistics behind the bad advice given at the time by 'the conspirosphere' and supplements marketers like the FLCCC.

It's called a joke, look into it.

and can you cite the studies done prior to the vaccine's being available please.

Three big studies dim hopes that hydroxychloroquine can treat or prevent COVID-19 - Article in Science, 9th June 2020.

Praised by presidents as a potential miracle cure

why not use a Mother Jones link. You make me smile

How wonderful for you.



I didn't use a Mother Jones link, because I used a science.org link.

science.org is run by the 'American Association for the Advancement of Science'. The AAAS was started way back in 1848, which is a just little earlier than COVID-19. I think they are fairly credible.

American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) – Bias and Credibility

Science.org (Magazine) – Bias and Credibility

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: stosh64
This study brought to you by Pfizer & Moderna.

The majority of authors in this paper were French academics. There was a Canadian. I see no links to Moderna or Pfizer.

HQC was touted as a therapeutic but was proven to be ineffective well before the immunizations were available.

This study is just putting some statistics behind the bad advice given at the time by 'the conspirosphere' and supplements marketers like the FLCCC.

It's called a joke, look into it.

and can you cite the studies done prior to the vaccine's being available please.

Three big studies dim hopes that hydroxychloroquine can treat or prevent COVID-19 - Article in Science, 9th June 2020.

Praised by presidents as a potential miracle cure

why not use a Mother Jones link. You make me smile

How wonderful for you.

I didn't use a Mother Jones link, because I used a science.org link.

science.org is run by the 'American Association for the Advancement of Science'. The AAAS was started way back in 1848, which is a just little earlier than COVID-19. I think they are fairly credible.

American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) – Bias and Credibility

Science.org (Magazine) – Bias and Credibility

Oh I love these Organizations run by Scientist .

Funny thing is it's really easy to join one of these Groups and sit on the board , you just have to do one thing ...... And that is Agree with what ever they say

Just sit around and pat each other on the back " Yes yes yes that sounds right and very scientific lets consider that the norm Status Quo . " And if anyone disagrees with us we'll destroy their reputation and make them look like a Crazy Person !! Funny it's always these groups that get the Federal Funding . It's almost like they are saying and thinking whatever the Government tells them to say and think .

It's that Narrative Chestnut again .

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
a reply to: WaESN

Ohhhhh Okay so that is why all of the Warehouses that Had Hydroxychloroquine in them were sabotaged and destroyed .

They were trying to save people from Hydroxychloroquine a drug that is not Toxic and is prescribed all the time ALL OVER THE WORLD.

So, there was a shortage of HQC after all these alleged fires everywhere?

They must have rebuilt the factories quickly. Current Drug Shortages

False claim: Two factories producing magnesium stearate, an ingredient used in a drug touted as a potential COVID-19 treatment, blown up simultaneously

Could it be that you were informed by social media, or a site like 'Natural News'?

There was 'a' fire in Taiwan: Filipino worker dies in drug firm blaze

It's funny really you can Type literally anything in on Google and find a link supporting your current opinion .

vaccineimpact.com...

watcot.org...