Portland Schools, Race and Gender Must Be Taken Into Account Before Disciplining

Well, thank God for this!

Though I look like a 6'5" male Viking I'm actually a Black female lesbian., so this is good news.

originally posted by: Freeborn
I don't know, I've never professed to have all the answers, I'm not that arrogant.

And this is why we employ professionals. These teachers are professionals, they have training and experience, hence why I defer to their judgement and understanding of what they need in order to do the job that is required of them as state education providers.

originally posted by: Freeborn
As for it being straight forward, I mean its obvious that giving someone preferential treatment for whatever reason only creates division and is discriminatory.

I don't view it as preferential, having read the links that others have posted in this thread, to me it appears to be more of an adjustment of where the equillibrium lies in terms of priorities. A state or public funded education provider has responsibility for all the children in their care, and that they all receive the support that they need to pass through the system with the information and skills that they need to navigate adulthood. For most that task is aided by parents who are setting a good example, support their childs learning and development, and most importantly provide structure and consistency to that childs life - that is the sweet spot where children thrive. Those children are easy to teach, and by focusing only on those children for decade after decade, we ended up with a state system in the UK populated by teachers who were cruising. Anyone who didn't conform got tossed by the weyside.

originally posted by: Freeborn
How on earth does treating someone different purely on their race, creed or gender help anyone?

If we are equal we get treat equal.

We are not equal yet, that's why.

originally posted by: Freeborn
That is #ing straight forward; no-one is special and exclusive and deserves special treatment.

I agree but in order to emerge from systems that have been built upon that very premise of preferentiality for white, heterosexual males, some recalibrations are required.

originally posted by: Freeborn
Lets start addressing core issues regardless of how sensitive they are for 'special interest' groups.

Such as?

originally posted by: Freeborn
I'd start by dismantling the glass ceiling that prevents people from certain social-economic backgrounds being disadvantaged far more than any specific race, creed or gender nowadays.

I absolutely agree, poverty still remains the greatest barrier to education and successfully navigating life's obstacles. Combine poverty with being a person of colour or if you deviate from cis-normative or hetero-normative values, the obstacles only get bigger.

originally posted by: Freeborn
A middle-class Black person is afforded far more advantages than an ordinary, everyday working class white person.

That is an undeniable FACT.

I don't know if that is a fact, you'd need to provide supporting evidence. Even if it is true, it doesn't protect them from racist systems. Being from a good middle-class family didn't prevent Stephen Lawrence from getting beaten to death.

originally posted by: Freeborn
As I said, I haven't got the answers, I'm just a regular ill-educated guy from a Council Estate in North East England.

And how was your experience of school?

My son, the product of a low income, single parent upbringing - unmarried mother no less (oh the shame, lol) - receives a bursary from one of the best universities in the UK for that very reason. He got their on his own academic merit and the help he gets is the help that he needs to hold that position. That's what these teachers want to be able to give to their students, the little extra that they need to thrive.

originally posted by: Freeborn
But my life experiences, which are quite considerable, lead me to believe that giving anyone preferential treatment is counter-productive.

By recognising that diversity exists you can better ensure that everyone has the tools they need to navigate society. That is what any publically funded organisation is responsible for doing. And, it is more cost effective in the long run.

I don't see it as preferential treatment, I see it as incorporating kindness and of recognising the importance of that being the example that needs to be set to build more equal systems.

originally posted by: Freeborn
I don't live in any 'cloud cuckoo land', I just know what we have at present is # and I'm sick to death of people being afforded some preferential treatment just because of their race, gender or creed.
And there are literally millions like me who have had enough and who are at the tipping point,

Believe me I am perfectly well aware of how many angry white men there are in the North-East. In my experience, most seem to have reached a point where they just get off their faces and eventually take it out on themselves, each other or their families. My experience with angry white men has taught me that they're nothing to worry about really, where I can't out think them, I can still out run them. And if they gang up, well that's just cowardice and a job for the Police.

originally posted by: BrucellaOrchitis
... instead of allowing your jerky knee to do all your thinking for you.

It's not 'jerky knee' to say that people shouldn't get a free ride simply because they are black or trans.

Again - If I'm going to ride on an airplane, I want that airplane built by people who did the work in school and learned how to build airplanes correctly. I don't want to ride on an airplane that was built by people who got free rides because they were black or trans and who didn't learn the material. I want the plane to stay together and fly correctly. You only get that if everyone is expected to do the work and do it right.

Common sense.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
Again - If I'm going to ride on an airplane, I want that airplane built by people who did the work in school and learned how to build airplanes correctly. I don't want to ride on an airplane that was built by people who got free rides because they were black or trans and who didn't learn the material. I want the plane to stay together and fly correctly. You only get that if everyone is expected to do the work and do it right.

Common sense.

No sense at all actually but then you clearly don't understand the situation you have just decided that you do.

No one from a high school is going to be building your plane. They have to pass through higher learning to do that. Universities and technical schools set their own standards of performance and qualifications. As do the professional bodies and agencies that ensure set standards are met.

originally posted by: BrucellaOrchitis
No one from a high school is going to be building your plane. They have to pass through higher learning to do that.

So then, according to you, all these kids who get a free pass because they are black or trans ... they won't be going to college because of the 'higher standard' and they will all have low wage jobs, probably flipping burgers, and demanding that they get paid a 'livable wage' for doing something that doesn't deserve one and that they didn't earn. So how is that fair to anyone ?? It's not.

a reply to: FlyersFan

You're still not getting it.

Try reading the link that Quintessentone posted, that might help you comprehend. Here it is:

assets.nationbuilder.com...

originally posted by: BrucellaOrchitis

originally posted by: FlyersFan
Again - If I'm going to ride on an airplane, I want that airplane built by people who did the work in school and learned how to build airplanes correctly. I don't want to ride on an airplane that was built by people who got free rides because they were black or trans and who didn't learn the material. I want the plane to stay together and fly correctly. You only get that if everyone is expected to do the work and do it right.

Common sense.

No sense at all actually but then you clearly don't understand the situation you have just decided that you do.

No one from a high school is going to be building your plane. They have to pass through higher learning to do that. Universities and technical schools set their own standards of performance and qualifications. As do the professional bodies and agencies that ensure set standards are met.

I think what is being missed by some people here is to get to that higher learning point the kids need to have their needs met all along the way for academic, emotional intelligence and mental health success. I'd sure prefer someone who has it all together to build my plane correctly with top notch education and a clear mind and sharp focus.

originally posted by: quintessentone
I think what is being missed by some people here is to get to that higher learning point the kids need to have their needs met all along the way for academic, emotional intelligence and mental health success. I'd sure prefer someone who has it all together to build my plane correctly with top notch education and a clear mind and sharp focus.

Exactly, children who fall through the cracks of educational systems struggle through out life and any gifts, talents or abilities they had are wasted. We all lose out.

And what a good systems engineer should know is that recognising diversity and incorporating multiple perspectives improves your capability to solve problems and innovate.

a reply to: BrucellaOrchitis

What a load of woke, smoke-in-mirrors, apologist bollocks.

originally posted by: BrucellaOrchitis

originally posted by: quintessentone
I think what is being missed by some people here is to get to that higher learning point the kids need to have their needs met all along the way for academic, emotional intelligence and mental health success. I'd sure prefer someone who has it all together to build my plane correctly with top notch education and a clear mind and sharp focus.

Exactly, children who fall through the cracks of educational systems struggle through out life and any gifts, talents or abilities they had are wasted. We all lose out.

And what a good systems engineer should know is that recognising diversity and incorporating multiple perspectives improves your capability to solve problems and innovate.

Exactly, it's taking the notion of 'no child left behind' and applying it to policies and procedures to ensure success of all children.

The same might apply to business success by incorporating multiple perspectives improves knowledge of demographics and targeting a wider customer base = profits.

originally posted by: quintessentone
Exactly, it's taking the notion of 'no child left behind' and applying it to policies and procedures to ensure success of all children.

Absolutely

I'm less concerned with profits, but if you spend any time amongst the unhoused, repeat criminals, substance abusers, those with chronic mental health issues, almost invariably, they started getting into difficulties at school and were excluded or barely scraped through. By investing, pre-emptively, in preventing and recognising those difficulties before they happen, the cost gains are potentially phenomenal.

originally posted by: BrucellaOrchitis

originally posted by: quintessentone
Exactly, it's taking the notion of 'no child left behind' and applying it to policies and procedures to ensure success of all children.

Absolutely

I'm less concerned with profits, but if you spend any time amongst the unhoused, repeat criminals, substance abusers, those with chronic mental health issues, almost invariably, they started getting into difficulties at school and were excluded or barely scraped through. By investing, pre-emptively, in preventing and recognising those difficulties before they happen, the cost gains are potentially phenomenal.

What also needs to be looked at is the genetic aspect that may affect children and I don't really know if this has been acknowledged within the psychological field in schools dealing with children's unmet needs. You know what they say 'depression' or mental health issues come before substance abuse or other means of self-healing rather self-destruction.

originally posted by: quintessentone
What also needs to be looked at is the genetic aspect that may affect children and I don't really know if this has been acknowledged within the psychological field in schools dealing with children's unmet needs. You know what they say 'depression' or mental health issues come before substance abuse or other means of self-healing rather self-destruction.

I think there is a danger if you start looking at the genetics too much you're perhaps verging towards getting a little bit too pre-emptive and prescriptive.

A guy who I knew through my last job, who had volunteered in a shelter, he said to me that most people think that the reason people sleep rough is because of dependency issues, they don't see the dependency as a consequence of being unhoused. Substances provide temporary escape from their trauma and from the present. Without addressing both those issues you increase the likelihood of recidivism to rough sleeping. This is an incredible project that I read about recently and demonstrates brilliantly what can be accomplished when you apply joined up thinking.

www.theguardian.com...

Poorly performing schools in the UK have adopted similar approaches. Providing breakfast so that under-privileged children aren't hungry, meaning they can concentrate at school, is a no brainer. Recognising period poverty is a thing and that by providing free sanitary products they can reduce non-attendence increasing those girls affected with a better chance. Bringing the services to those that need them most and educating children how to access the services they need should they need them. Some needs that are unmet at home can be compensated for, others cannot, but creating self-space in the school environment in which to ask for help you can give those children a much better chance of making better choices than they perhaps would have been able to.

Depression may have genetic precursors, those can be compensated for medicinally, but depression caused by a lack agency, for being viewed in a way you can't identify with or because you're someone outside the norm on the spectrum, that requires someone to take notice of the child and give a #.

a reply to: BrucellaOrchitis

I've been hearing that those who choose to sleep rough is mainly due to safety issues, that being others in the shelter system are violent and abusive to others. But, of course, many factors could be in play.

If they can't pinpoint genetic issues then discussing all immediate and pertinent involved family members' life, mental and medical issues IMO is the next best step in determining if a child may be inadvertently affected from other family members' treated or untreated mental illnesses or disorders. As you say, it may be as simple as providing a breakfast or a menstral pad or as complex as learning a bi-polar disorder runs in the family and that is something that should be monitored.

It's a difficult road to travel for the school professionals and I am sure there are parents that pushback due to being into denial or lack coping skills. I don't really know if in-depth family consultations go into this territory with parents/guardians/grandparents etc. in their quest to help meet the unmet needs of a child.

a reply to: quintessentone

I've been hearing that those who choose to sleep rough is mainly due to safety issues, that being others in the shelter system are violent and abusive to others. But, of course, many factors could be in play.

In my own nation, and at this time of year, sleeping rough, will most likely lead to hypothermia and death.

Nobody in their correct frame of mind chooses to be homeless or on the street.

For the vast majority of those who experience homelessness, It's not a lifestyle choice, and those who claim otherwise, im apt to believe have never been homeless, hungry, or helpless.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: quintessentone

I've been hearing that those who choose to sleep rough is mainly due to safety issues, that being others in the shelter system are violent and abusive to others. But, of course, many factors could be in play.

In my own nation, and at this time of year, sleeping rough, will most likely lead to hypothermia and death.

Nobody in their correct frame of mind chooses to be homeless or on the street.

For the vast majority of those who experience homelessness, It's not a lifestyle choice, and those who claim otherwise, im apt to believe have never been homeless, hungry, or helpless.

I suspect lifestyle choices even if homeless would of course depend on the weather conditions.

a reply to: quintessentone

Ok granted, if the climate is tropical, or close to being so, there may be a few people who choose to reside under the sky and stars down to their lifestyle choice.

But the vast majority of them are still going to desire a roof above their heads and the amenities and basic utilities that come with such sun in the sky or otherwise.

And at the end of the day having somewhere to live and exist and lay your head at night is about more than just a roof above your head.

Again the vast majority of people who experience homelessness are not doing it for kicks and hoots but down to necessity and the fact that they are destitute.

It's not hip to be homeless quintessentone, point of fact quite the opposite.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: quintessentone

Ok granted, if the climate is tropical, or close to being so, there may be a few people who choose to reside under the sky and stars down to their lifestyle choice.

But the vast majority of them are still going to desire a roof above their heads and the amenities and basic utilities that come with such sun in the sky or otherwise.

And at the end of the day having somewhere to live and exist and lay your head at night is about more than just a roof above your head.

Again the vast majority of people who experience homelessness are not doing it for kicks and hoots but down to necessity and the fact that they are destitute.

It's not hip to be homeless quintessentone, point of fact quite the opposite.

Where did you get the idea I thought in any way shape or form it was hip to be homeless? The point I made previously is that when I watched the news about homeless people that remain sleeping outside rough they mostly say because they feel safer out there than inside a shelter where they have been attacked or robbed previously.

a reply to: quintessentone

Where did you get the idea I thought in any way shape or form it was hip to be homeless?

It was more just a blanket statement directed towards anyone who chooses to entertain the notion homelessness is a life style choice.

There are those out there that would have us believe the homeless only have themselves to blame or choose to exist in the manner that they do down to their own volition, including members of our own respective governments.

The point I made previously is that when I watched the news about homeless people that remain sleeping outside rough they mostly say because they feel safer out there than inside a shelter where they have been attacked or robbed previously.

Thats not exactly far from the truth, but the fact is you can just as easily be attacked or robbed while homeless on the street as you are likely to be robbed or abused in a hostel or hotel.

Its six of one and a half dozen of the other really depending on how vulnerable the person happens to be.

The hostels are full of spice and heroin dealers hence the violence and intimidation but then again it not like that's not also available on the corners.

a reply to: andy06shake

Well, juvenile homes/shelters are another area to look at concerning kids who feel they have to runaway from home because they have no other option, or have got in with the wrong crowd and are using drugs and are addicted. But that might fall under giving the minor legal self-governing rights where the school system can work directly with the child and bypass the toxic parents altogether, that is if deemed necessary for the child's welfare and life success.