Straight from the Demons' mouth - Hell is not a construct ordained by God.

I recently watched the movie 'The Pope's Exorcist' which got me interested in the matter of the warfare between the angelic hierarchy & the demonic hierarchy. Truth be told I have been interested for a long while, but my particular interest in Catholic-led exorcism & deliverance was piqued by the movie, so I decided to read one of the books by Father Gabriel Amorth, the priest & exorcist on whom the movie was based. He was a wise & prolific exorcist, publicly calling for the ministry to be strengthened even back in the 80's & 90's as he saw the hedonism & societal decay which was advancing throughout the world with the ascent of materialism & the pride of life, he witnessed a severe uptick in demonic activity around that time..

Below, I'm quoting a part of his book which really struck a chord with me for a very specific reason. I have been anointed with a gift, a 'charism' of prophecy, by which I'm able to minister to people within the church to bless them with a word from the Lord on a given issue, and by which I'm able to contribute to the direction of the church I belong to, as part of a prayer team which is devoted to weighing carefully all that we receive from the Lord, holding fast to the good, as we are exhorted to do in scripture.

A key problem which has come along with my gifting in the realm of the prophetic, is that I have suffered for years with tormenting dreams in which I am persecuted by the Enemy & his minions - severely intelligent & powerful entities, which trap me in realms of the mind which are recursive, paradoxical, frightening, weird, strange, twisted - horrifying patterns of L5D style bad trip material, journeys of great travail & anguish which occupy my nights approximately one third of the time, vivid nightmares which test & try my soul in the flames, so to speak. Another third of the time I experience normal human dreaming, and the final third is taken up with godly, divine dreams, spiritually pure & uplifting dreams, which often feature active prophecy which is relevant to my life, to the church's life, and even to the life of nations, as has happened a few times. In the tormenting dreams - which are apparently a common feature of the lives of people gifted in the prophetic - I believe God has allowed me to experience them so I learn lessons regarding the Enemy's tactics, strategic goals, methods & the environment of hell in which the nightmares unfold. In these nightmares I have often been tortured with real severe pain for extended periods which feel like hours at a time in some cases.

I truly believe that a third of my nocturnal travels see me drawn down into Hell by the Devil himself, and the thugs who work on his side of the cosmic war. In this I have been refined, in the fire, the dross in my character has been mostly burned off, though I am the first to admit I have a long way to go.

So why am I writing this thread? Well, I have always believed that God, the God I have experienced in enlivened worship & the anointing of the manifest presence of the LORD Almighty, has no part in the horrors of Hell, they are nothing to do with him. I have intuitively known this since a wonderful season of anointed worship & time spent soaking in the presence of the Holy Spirit when I became a Christian in 2002.

I knew the character of God from these times, I knew His heart, and I knew He had no part in these evils I had seen. He doesn't banish people to Hell, that is the work of devils & demons. And I was seemingly proven right when I read from Father Gabriel Amorth's book 'An Exorcist Tells His Story'. Please see the following quote from his work, regarding what he & his mentor/ colleagues were able to compel certain demons to confess, as they were in the process of being driven out:

Many times, Father Candido [Amorth's mentor] questioned the demons in people of all ages; he, however, liked to tell about the questioning of children, because it was obvious that their answers were well beyond their age and therefore proved the certain presence of the devil. One day Father Candido asked a thirteen-year-old girl, “Two enemies, who hated each other all their lives, hated each other to death, and both ended up in hell. What is the relationship that they will share now, since they will be with each other for all eternity?”

And this was the answer: “How stupid you are! Down there everyone lives folded within himself and torn apart by his regrets. There is no relationship with anyone; everyone finds himself in the most profound solitude and desperately weeps for the evil that he has committed. It is like a cemetery.”

....................


FITO's note - this description of being 'folded within oneself' is very true to the experiences I have had in my nightmares. They are like mandelbrot formations, recursive portals & fractals echoing in on themselves, labyrinthine mazes with terrible horrors everywhere found. Although I have learned from these dreams, I would not wish them on anybody - Hell is truly an horrific place, but I am glad to say that God has worked for good that which the Enemy has intended for evil. I have learned what the Enemy's mind intends towards humans in a way that most people simply have not been able to understand, due to lack of direct experience. I know that God is working out some important plan in my life in which I will be able to help a great many people in the future as a direct result of the dark experiences I have suffered these past ten years. It is my hope that soon my 'training' will be over, and I will suffer less with these tormenting dreams as my ministry develops. God has a plan, and by grace I will walk in His way.


........................

[Amorth speaking] We must make this abundantly clear: evil, suffering, death, and hell (that is, eternal damnation in everlasting torment) are not acts of God. I want to expand on this point. One day Father Candido was expelling a demon. Toward the end of the exorcism, he turned to the evil spirit and sarcastically told him, “Get out of here. The Lord has already prepared a nice, well-heated house for you!”

At this, the demon answered, “You do not know anything! It wasn’t he [God] who made hell. It was us. He had not even thought about it.”

Similarly, on another occasion, while I was questioning a demon to know whether he had contributed to the creation of hell, I received this answer: “All of us cooperated.”

Christ’s centrality in the plan of creation, and its restoration through redemption, is fundamental to understanding God’s plan and the end of the world. Angels and men received an intelligent and free nature. When I am told (by those who confuse predestination with God’s providence that God already knows who will be saved and who will be damned, and therefore anything we do is useless, I usually answer with four truths that the Bible spells out for us:

God wants that everyone be saved; no one is predestined to go to hell; Jesus died for everyone; and everyone is given sufficient graces for salvation.

So I'll leave it there for the OP, but I have some additional material to discuss later in the thread, with several further quoted sections from the intriguing book from which they are taken, written by Father Amorth. Please feel free to contribute your thoughts, fears, concerns, relief at the divine truth revealed, etc.

Godspeed,


FITO.

.

Very interesting thread. Thanks, FITO. Here are some words that a friend sent me recently. It makes one realize just how real the spiritual warfare is.

PRAYER
Ephesians 6:12
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."


There is a battle going on in the heavens, and we in this earthly realm quite often become proxies for that battle. Make no mistake, spirits can and do use flesh and blood bodies.
The Good Spirit, the Holy Spirit can use our bodies to work through, just as a negative spirit, an evil spirit can use our bodies to work through.

This may be troubling to think of, and for some it's hard to believe, but many times, a thought that comes into your mind is not really your thought. To some people, this is a very frightening concept. A dark thought may come into your mind, and you'll dwell on it. Within a minute or two, you're going down a dark road. One minute you're having a good day, and the next, that dark thought put you in a depressed state, and maybe even ruined the rest of your day. This can happen to the happiest, most positive people we know. Sometimes we are just absolutely bombarded with negativity, all day long. We're beset and we're attacked.

When these negative attacks come, you must know how to counter them. This struggle has been described as a "spiritual chess match". A struggle that runs the spectrum from the spiritual, on down to the physical. You can overcome and prevail by putting on the Whole Armor of God.
How can we think several moves ahead, like a master chess player? By learning the strategic art of prayer and meditation. Learn specific words or scriptural passages to apply when those dark emotions, those negative thoughts come upon you. Discipline yourself in word and in action, and you will be able to counter those negative attacks as soon as they come up. This is how we beat addictions and escape toxic emotional spirals, and it's how we win spiritual battles.

Let's go back to the Book of Ephesians again:
Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

The Whole Armor of God

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

I think you sound like a tortured soul but it's all self inflicted.

Heaven and hell are internal affairs nothing more. That's why God, angels, demons etc only appear in dreams.

You won't be dreaming when you are dead. You don't have a gift for 'prophecy', there is no such thing.

It might make you feel special and bring some sort of comfort. Who can say?

I'm happy as I am. I don't need any of that to navigate life. Everything we need is right here.

I'm just expressing my thoughts here, not having a go.

S+F

a reply to: midicon

Heaven and hell are internal affairs nothing more. That's why God, angels, demons etc only appear in dreams.

I would expand that definition in that it occurs in our minds. These kinds of influence do occur while awake. There is still a lot of unknowns in how everything works. Humans have done great breaking down and understanding everything we can with the 5 sensors we have. With things that get outside of this range it does get hazy.

From some descriptions of Hell, it does have a pyramid hierarchy with the entities getting stronger and nastier the higher up the chain, they all have an individual name. There also seams to be a strong collective structure as well where they can share information and part of a common thing? Legion. They seam to lurk somewhere in our will power and where one battle ground is when confronting them.

a reply to: kwaka

I probably was too definite in that statement. What do I know?

In fact what does anyone know?

I don't believe in hell or anything like that.

To those who maintain that angels, demons, and spiritual warfare are all figments of someone's overactive imagination, I would suggest you do some serious research.

originally posted by: ColeYounger2
To those who maintain that angels, demons, and spiritual warfare are all figments of someone's overactive imagination, I would suggest you do some serious research.

Why?

There was a time I immersed myself in Jung and such like.

I don't think they are a figment in the sense you mean.

Ignorance may seem comforting until a rude awakening occurs. Some individuals exhibit a noticeable lack, manifesting through their fear of the unfamiliar, past traumas, or an intense desire to cling to illusions and the perceived safety of what they consider "normal" or socially accepted reality.

It's a straightforward dichotomy: some effortlessly follow the mainstream, going with the flow, almost automated, while others find themselves in alternative paths, resisting the current, or opting to step out of the water altogether. This choice is not always voluntary, as circumstances might force a particular reality upon you.

Whether you view life as a mere game or if fear guides your actions, there's ample room on the sidelines for those who prefer to breeze through existence conventionally. However, it's crucial to remain aware of your fundamental beliefs and motivations, understanding their origins and questioning who truly steers your life and what and whom you live for.

a reply to: MindsTrappedBeyond

You are just being silly and dramatic.

a reply to: ColeYounger2

That's a great & very encouraging response, thank you. I've definitely been getting stronger in response to these attacks - before, I was in a state of learned helplessness, and simply did my best to tolerate the dark dreams when they came. Now, however, I've joined the prophetic prayer team at church, I keep a prayer journal, I've been speaking certain of the psalms over my mind & heart before going to sleep, and things have been getting better. It's definitely a learning process - I'm trying to stay humble & simply advance steadily rather than seeking to overpower the Enemy perpetually/ sustaining a manic response.

I've got a fair way to go still, but things are definitely getting better. Learning more about the nature of deliverance, prophecy & exorcism ministry has helped a lot, I've basically learnt of the strategy of the Enemy, his attitutde towards mankind, his tactics when seeking to trip me up in the complex labyrinthine dreams as they occur. Thank God I've resisted key temptations while in those dreams - the Enemy attacks specifically when he thinks he has you locked in a sort of hypnotised state of weakness - praise God He has sustained my character in those dreams, I've managed to resist all efforts to trip me up & lead me back into old modes of thinking & behaving which were prevalent in my life when I was younger, before coming to Christ. But again, it's about staying humble, I know I can't win against the Devil on my own, it's only in the grace of God.

Anyway thanks for the response, I appreciate the encouragement!

Cheers,


FITO.

Something I felt compelled to right a few days ago:

"Many seek the answers of what happens after we die. I am so grateful that God has allowed me to experience Her realm 3 times to gain an understanding. Before anyone balks at the idea of God being a Her, understand this, the Spirit realm is feminine and the Physical realm is masculine. When we marry both within our Hearts, we find Peace.

What I witnessed is a realm without time. We are told that if you are not saved, you go to hell. What I saw was both hell and heaven. When you leave your mortal shell, you have to go through your Self in order to reach heaven. This means everything that you have done you have to reconcile with.

Now remember, you have entered a realm of no Time. This means that when you go through your Self, it is stretched out to eternity. If you are unable to reconcile your life, you wind up stuck in this eternal phase. This is Hell. This is also why it's so important to do the inner work while you exist in the realm where Time does exist, because it is so much easier to do here than to try and take on an eternity of Self.

If, on the other hand, you are able to come to terms with your Self, you get to enter Heaven. In Heaven you experience something that very few, if any, have been able to experience, even briefly, in the Physical. You get to feel unadulterated unconditional Love, for eternity.

The simplest path is not always the easiest. You have to learn to love yourself, forgive others(many many times), and treat each person as though they were you(the you that has healthy Self Love). If you are able to do these things while here, your journey through your Self will be much easier to navigate in the end.

If enough of us make the above our goal, we may actually be able to start making this existence look like Heaven on earth.

If not, well I know where I'll be at the End/Beginning. This mortal life is a blip in comparison to infinity. I'll be spending my blip doing my best to bring Love, Peace, and Forgiveness to others.

Love you all!!"

a reply to: midicon

Well my friend, you carry on & you do you, as the saying goes.

I know that I have experienced the manifest presence of God, and scripture tells us, experience confirms, that various spiritual gifts are given to church members for the strengthening & encouragement of the body of Christ, which is the congregation of believers. I know God is real, I know that there is also a 'personified evil' predator in this world, in the spiritual dimensions which are connected to the spacetime that we experience. I've had dreams which directly & with perfect accuracy depict events which then happen exactly as seen in the dream, in complex & drawn out ways, in the days & weeks following having had the dream. This is a confirmation of the gift of prophecy, and though I seek to stay humble in manifesting that gift, I know it is real & have no qualms about simply calling it like it is. God dwells beyond space & time, and is infinite - He is therefore able to reveal the future as He so chooses, and He is infinitely capable of being concerned with the fullness of each & every one of us, even numbering the hairs on our heads.

If you don't believe, then that's your loss. You may think you don't 'need' God, but there are millions of people in the world who experience His reality in the same way I have, and they will attest to the same. Once you experience God, there is no way to go back to the ignorance which was in place before that experience - when you know, you appreciate the grace of God which has led Him to reveal Himself to you, because it is solely for our benefit that He reveals His presence & begins to work wonders in our lives.

There was a time I felt that God was a load of mumbo jumbo - I did everything to avoid believing in the Judeo-Christian tradition, as I felt it was bigoted & straitjacketed, even though I was a spiritual seeker for several years during that time. However, that belief proved to be so wildly wrong, inaccurate, untrue, that I gladly entered into the Christian tradition after the Lord made Himself known to me in a very real & powerful way.

I'll even tell you the story of how it happened. I was at rock bottom, in very difficult personal circumstances, and in desperation I looked up at the stars & prayed a desperate prayer: "Lord, if you're real, please reveal yourself to me, and I will serve you for the rest of my days". The very next day I was in the local town centre, drinking vodka on a bench, and a well dressed lady was walking past, paying no attention to me initially. Then she suddenly stopped, turned back & pointed to me & said: "You've been praying - God answers prayer. Come with me". She took me to a local church & introduced me to the pastor, who spoke with me for some time & I was convinced that God had truly answered my prayer of the night before, so I committed my life to the Lord.

My life then dramatically changed for the better over the coming months, and I dived deep into the Christian lifestyle, experiencing the manifest presence of God, being baptised in the Holy Spirit, and making friends who are proving to have lasted a lifetime. In recent times I have become stronger in the area of spiritual warfare, hence this thread - God has been training me by allowing me to be exposed to the wiles of the Evil One, so I can gain strength & learn how to combat that Ancient Enemy. My involvement in my current local church is deepening, and God is leading me ever nearer to His abiding presence & power - life is good, I have a beautiful family, and everything is drastically changed for the better compared to the time before I came to know Him.

But yeah, if you'd rather not experience the magnificence of the Almighty, then go ahead & retain your stunted view of the Cosmos, living a life that is made smaller by the arrogance you display in denigrating the experiene of the divine which other people have been so blessed to discover.

a reply to: midicon

Incidentally, I believ Jung has a lot to offer to us in terms of understanding our psychology & some of the interesting depths of our shared reality - but that does not negate the reality of the existence of God, and nobody can prove that it does. If you have even given up in a belief in Jungian psychodynamics, then you really are intent on demystifying life & living a stunted, likely very selfish reality (I base that statement on the evidence of your character as displayed in your limited posts in this thread).

a reply to: Irikash1

What you have conceived is interesting, but it is deeply flawed. There is no 'salvation through works' - salvation is a free gift given by God to any who would receive it. It takes you outside of the eternal influence of evil beings, in the sense that although we encounter them while here on Earth, when we die we are conveyed into the Heavenly realm without being restrained by any other power, for no power can overcome the Lord Jesus, the King of Kings & Lord of Lords, to whom every power in Heaven & Earth must bend the knee, there is simply no way for anything at all to overwhelm His salvific power.

Also, God is not feminine - the creative impetus is masculine, and tradition confirms over thousands of years that God, the Most High, is male, at least in the most basic sense as can be understood from our limited position as created beings with a mind that is ridiculously limited compared to the intelligence of the divine. The Holy Spirit, an aspect of God who is most present with us in our Christian walk, is sometimes considered to be more motherly, feminine, caring in a female sense, but that is a thorny theological issue that very intelligent & experienced people still argue about today. But God the Father, and God the Son, the two other aspects of the Holy Trinity, are most definitely masculine, and the Father is sovereign over all, the principal aspect of the Godhead.

a reply to: MindsTrappedBeyond

However, it's crucial to remain aware of your fundamental beliefs and motivations, understanding their origins and questioning who truly steers your life and what and whom you live for.

Well said. Very nicely put.
"We should not pretend to understand the world only by the intellect. The judgement of the intellect is only part of the truth."
...Carl Jung

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Having had 3 NDEs, my filter from this realm was fully removed. I've experienced many supernatural events in my life and still have a Christian faith. This is not the only path to salvation though, it's too simple and leaves room for division, which is an illusion.

We simplify what our minds can't comprehend in the Physical. God represented in the Physical is masculine, this is why we refer to God as Him here. The Physical is the only realm creation exits. Outside of time is the bride of the Physical realm, the Spiritual realm. This is where you get to see God in Her feminine form, the side of God that is unconditional love-this is what most seek, which is why I called God Her. You seek Her and are experiencing Him in the Physical. God is everything, the medium we experience them through determines the side we "see".

Don't be fooled into believing you are separate from anything you experience. You are a fractal of the all mighty. Within one piece of the hologram lies the whole, the difference is resolution. The resolution of the Spiritual realm is so great that experiencing the Physical is like putting on a VR headset in comparison. Imagine witnessing infinite timelines, one timeline looks like a single pixel(much smaller, but it works as an example). Knowing that there are infinite timelines begs the question, what is the difference between premonition/prophecy and manifestaion? The answer is understanding.

Salvation comes from understanding. Some figure it out in the Physical via the marriage within the heart that I spoke of. Some find out upon death when they reconcile their existence. Some never complete the process and get stuck in their Hell loop. You can access any of these situations here in the Physical because we are allowed to choose our path via free will. Your level determines your experience. Ask and you shall receive goes many ways. It's the same as be careful what you wish/pray for. If you fear, you will experience events that reinforce that fear until the moment you decide to stop fearing.

The biggest message I got from my visits was to stop taking life so seriously. Learn to live with child-like wonder and trust/have faith that God has got you. If you fear, you have doubt/lack of faith that hinders your ability to experience this life to its fullest potential. This doesn't mean be a jerk without fear. You get what you give, if not in the Physical, then definitely at the End.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

You are very wrong about me. In every way. I think life is a great mystery, I truly do.

I would never use that word 'stunted' but it's not worth me explaining why.

I feel as though I've offended you. I didn't intend to.

I once thought God touched me. Perhaps he did, I can't say. It took me a long time to get over it.

Then I settled on where I am now, that is, I cannot say what is subjective in that regard.

So God for me is something inside me. I'm not fussed about all that other stuff.

It's like a carnival. I mean no offence to you and appreciate the lengthy reply.

Regards midicon

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

I've re-read the OP and all that you have written here. My 'tortured soul' comment, was an honest comment.

'Soul' was an unfortunate choice of words for me. I don't believe in souls. In all honesty people like you are a big part of the problems facing humanity. I don't really believe in anything like that.
People like you need demons, fallen angels and stuff, this reality is never enough. You don't have the gift of prophecy, no one has but to say so makes you feel important. I would suggest that all of your 'dreaming' is normal human dreaming. What a dreadful state you are in if you believe all that stuff you write.

We need to get rid of all this man made, man interpreted religious nonsense. You are just promoting it. In reality you should be ashamed. If only we could drop all those 'holy books' in a bin somewhere, we might actually grow up and out of ignorance. I mean all of them, not just the bible.

Those books do contain pieces of inspired wisdom and insight but it's wasted on people like you. You need demons and the devil, who else can you blame for your woes? Why not just grow up and drop that crutch?

I would never have someone like you near my kids or grandkids. People like you are ten a penny and you spread poison. It's all rather sad really.

You did finish off the OP saying, feel free to contribute your concerns which is all I am doing here. You should be commending my honesty really.

We can be kind, caring and compassionate without religion.