Michigan Trying To Take Away Local Government's Rights on Green Energies.

So, as I have posted about this before, my sister and her community fought for over a year, to stop windmills in her county. They won, uncovered corruption on their board, and I learned a lot about bad things that can be caused by windmills.

Well, our wonderful politicians, apparently do not think "We The People" to have the right to fight these issues, with the windmills or solar panels.
They are proposing new bills, to take away the decision to allow or not allow these farms away from local government, and put them in the hands of a state run board.
Basically so the people can no longer have a say.

Detroit News

I know one farmer, making 16,000 a year, for just one windmill on their property. I get why they want it. But if this passes, the neighbors have no say.
I already did not get a choice in my county for the solar farms. We did not get to vote before they put in 2) 20 acre farms about 5 miles from me.

This is not right, and I will be contacting my congress person. Fat lot of good it will probably do.

a reply to: chiefsmom

While I am against taking away the people's voice, I can't find any studies that absolutely prove windmills cause harm. Although some scientists are asking for more infrasound studies. One thing is for sure, we need to look at renewable energies and not rely solely on fossil fuels. My take for what it's worth.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: chiefsmom

While I am against taking away the people's voice, I can't find any studies that absolutely prove windmills cause harm. Although some scientists are asking for more infrasound studies. One thing is for sure, we need to look at renewable energies and not rely solely on fossil fuels. My take for what it's worth.

Not to sure on Humans but have read/seen a few things on say Birds and bats and some others

Wind Farms Cause More Environmental Impact Than Previously Thought - LINK

Disadvantages of Wind Energy: Do Wind Turbines Affect Health? - LINK

The Negative Health Effects Of Windmills Is Irrefutable - LINK

Why Wind Farms Cause Drought - LINK

a reply to: chiefsmom

that's called greasing of da palms of elected officials by special interest groups.

originally posted by: TarantulaBite

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: chiefsmom

While I am against taking away the people's voice, I can't find any studies that absolutely prove windmills cause harm. Although some scientists are asking for more infrasound studies. One thing is for sure, we need to look at renewable energies and not rely solely on fossil fuels. My take for what it's worth.

Not to sure on Humans but have read/seen a few things on say Birds and bats and some others

Wind Farms Cause More Environmental Impact Than Previously Thought - LINK

Disadvantages of Wind Energy: Do Wind Turbines Affect Health? - LINK

The Negative Health Effects Of Windmills Is Irrefutable - LINK

Why Wind Farms Cause Drought - LINK

I could find the same amount of studies refuting your studies, it is what it is.

a reply to: chiefsmom

They are forcing the darn green on everybody like it was something that needs to be done now, is a lot of money been pushed to the dirty local politicians in the states.

Money talks and BS walks, and people still think we are a democracy.

The thing is that is nothing green in cement trees and glass filled fields, nothing green, but the money that politicians are getting.

originally posted by: chiefsmom
So, as I have posted about this before, my sister and her community fought for over a year, to stop windmills in her county. They won, uncovered corruption on their board, and I learned a lot about bad things that can be caused by windmills.

Well, our wonderful politicians, apparently do not think "We The People" to have the right to fight these issues, with the windmills or solar panels.
They are proposing new bills, to take away the decision to allow or not allow these farms away from local government, and put them in the hands of a state run board.
Basically so the people can no longer have a say.

Detroit News

I know one farmer, making 16,000 a year, for just one windmill on their property. I get why they want it. But if this passes, the neighbors have no say.
I already did not get a choice in my county for the solar farms. We did not get to vote before they put in 2) 20 acre farms about 5 miles from me.

This is not right, and I will be contacting my congress person. Fat lot of good it will probably do.

So, I did read this:

One wind turbine can require up to 80 acres of land, and each turbine will generate around 2.5 MW. Because wind turbines are spaced so far apart, surface activities like farming can still take place on much of the land.

It's a bit of a conundrum. I am mostly in favor of windmills and solar farms and I wouldn't particularly want them next to me. But if I did want one on my property, I'd be pretty pissed if my neighbors had a say about it. It's my property, I pay the taxes on it, I own it. I want to do what ever I want on my property. Which is why I live outside of city limits because I don't want to be be told how tall my weeds can get before I have to mow, what color my house should be, if I can have one dog or ten, how loud I can play my music or what time I can mow my lawn. And I only own 8.5 acres.

Farmers own hundreds and thousands of acres. I can only imagine they feel somewhat the same.

a reply to: chiefsmom

The government will always use every tool available to take what is yours.

a reply to: quintessentone

Michigan is one of the busiest migratory bird fly overs!
How can it NOT be a harmful issue when perhaps millions of birds fly over? Even though they may fly above the windmills, we have no clue as to the extent of the wind mill intrusion.
dashboard.birdcast.info...

9,369,200

Birds crossed Michigan last night (est.)

www.audubon.org...

Correct siting and design—locating a farm outside a migration corridor, for example, or turbines back from ridges where eagles concentrate—remains the gold standard. But the possibility of reducing expected bird deaths at existing farms, or of expanding the number of feasible sites, has driven several new technologies. Most rely either on the detection-and-curtailment principle, like the condor system, or on deterrents that keep birds away from turbines entirely.

Maybe there needs to be more research done by unbiased scientists before we commit to this alleged solution to energy?
I don't have much confidence much research is currently being done in Michigan to properly place these farms.

www.sciencenews.org...

Turbines can also indirectly harm animals by altering their habitats. Take whooping cranes (Grus americana). Each year, the only naturally occurring population of the endangered birds migrate from coastal Texas to Canada and back — a nearly 8,000-kilometer round trip — flying over a handful of U.S. states that produce most of the country’s wind energy. To get a better idea of how wind energy infrastructure affects the birds, researchers analyzed GPS location data from 57 cranes tracked from 2010 through 2016.

Care also needs to be taken to avoid these farms anywhere near habitat.

Maybe we need to wake up and NOT rely solely on renewables or solely on fossil.
Seems to be there is a push to go green without DUE DILIGENCE.

a reply to: quintessentone

I could find the same amount of studies refuting your studies, it is what it is.

So do it

They also look like crap, don't last long and get buried where they sit when they crap out.
It's ethanol 2.0
More expensive than what it replaces, but great for scammers.
Short of remote power supplies, they kinda suck.

The counties and townships are just as corrupt as the state if not worse.

I'm all for building anything you want on your own property and I also want the government to have less power, not more, esp. when they gain power at the expense of private property rights.

But local zoning ordinances and other restrictions are in place no matter what. Then there is the government's eminent domain, so my property could become part of some wind or solar farm regardless of what I want.

I can tell you I don't like seeing all the wind farms in Huron County. My father's family is from there and I had regularly visited the thumb around 30 years ago. Now it is a different landscape along the eastern side of Saginaw Bay going into the the thumb. I've heard talk in the area about the problems it has caused for eagles and migratory birds. It is an eyesore as well, a solar farm could be better hidden from view compared to those forests of gigantic monoliths.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: chiefsmom

The government will always use every tool available to take what is yours.

Cmp took their argument all the way to the Supreme Court (I've heard) to override the state of Maine voting against their BS business plan to make rich Chinese investors more money. They won, and are going ahead with a project the state voted to kill a few years ago.

A few greasy palms go a long way in this broken country.

Windmills do give health problems for many people. There needs to be regulations on them that recognize this effect and keep the windmills away from people's homes if they object to them. Around here, windmills do not do very well when they are full of ice and the weather is below zero. That does not stop the government with people that have no common sense from forcing them on us. Same with solar panels, we get a lot of snow in areas, people who have them are brushing them off every day sometimes.

It is good that electric cars are worthless around here because of the frigid cold. You have to charge them every day and they suck up the power in below zero weather.

a reply to: chiefsmom

Across the southern tip of the Detroit River here into Lake Erie, across in Amherstburg, along the Canadian shore are like a dozen white wind turbines out in the agri-fields....lots of tomatoes, corn etc....

By the looks of it across-the-way, it seems all for show. I understand it doesnt help a great deal, doesnt really save much...but they look really nice slowly turning...

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: TarantulaBite

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: chiefsmom

While I am against taking away the people's voice, I can't find any studies that absolutely prove windmills cause harm. Although some scientists are asking for more infrasound studies. One thing is for sure, we need to look at renewable energies and not rely solely on fossil fuels. My take for what it's worth.

Not to sure on Humans but have read/seen a few things on say Birds and bats and some others

Wind Farms Cause More Environmental Impact Than Previously Thought - LINK

Disadvantages of Wind Energy: Do Wind Turbines Affect Health? - LINK

The Negative Health Effects Of Windmills Is Irrefutable - LINK

Why Wind Farms Cause Drought - LINK

I could find the same amount of studies refuting your studies, it is what it is.

Then do so. And post them .
Do your due diligence.

All this stu8ff is , is a huge government scam. The officials are getting major under the table kickbacks from those companies.
Just like the billions given to Green Energy7 companies during the Obama presidency.
They took the money , and soon afterwards filed bankruptcy.

a reply to: quintessentone
Sorry, I was going to add some of this last night, but I didn't have time.
It's very interesting, and I am going to see my sister tomorrow, and would like to ask her where they are storing the THOUSANDS of papers they have on this, from their fight.

3 Big issues:
They have research, that something, maybe the low hum? is causing miscarriages in horses and sheep. They had two backers from Texas, sending them blank checks for the lawyer's fees because one was the family of a lady in her county that apparently was pretty famous in the barrel racing world. Another lady had been a judge/breeder in the rodeo world for over 40 years.
They learned that the oil in the windmills is Very toxic.
As DTOM stated, they have research on the migratory bird having problems.

My sister will admit, they got very lucky in their fight, not only do they have the ladies mentioned above living in their county, that have families with VERY deep pockets, but they also had a retired librarian and researcher that found a lot of the information for them.
(BTW, she is now president of the township board!)

originally posted by: chiefsmom
a reply to: quintessentone
Sorry, I was going to add some of this last night, but I didn't have time.
It's very interesting, and I am going to see my sister tomorrow, and would like to ask her where they are storing the THOUSANDS of papers they have on this, from their fight.

3 Big issues:
They have research, that something, maybe the low hum? is causing miscarriages in horses and sheep. They had two backers from Texas, sending them blank checks for the lawyer's fees because one was the family of a lady in her county that apparently was pretty famous in the barrel racing world. Another lady had been a judge/breeder in the rodeo world for over 40 years.
They learned that the oil in the windmills is Very toxic.
As DTOM stated, they have research on the migratory bird having problems.

My sister will admit, they got very lucky in their fight, not only do they have the ladies mentioned above living in their county, that have families with VERY deep pockets, but they also had a retired librarian and researcher that found a lot of the information for them.
(BTW, she is now president of the township board!)

After reading a few findings at the below hyperlink at Energy.gov they admit themselves that more studies are required because they have just found that their bird mortality numbers were not calculated properly to account for bird/bat mortalities where scavengers removed the remains and other situations where the numbers would not have been accurate. And yes it appears migratory birds are more vulnerable than local birds to wind turbines.

Right now it seems the concern is for bird/bat mortality and remedial measures, such as painting the blades alternating colors of black and white for a flickering effect, and changing the hum sound to a sound that would deter bats. I would expect that changing the hum to another sound would then require subsequent studies on wildlife effects.

All in all, this is where they have landed so far:

"Research shows that wind projects actually rank near the bottom of the list of developments that negatively impact wildlife and the environment. In fact, the Audubon Society strongly supports properly sited wind power as a renewable energy source that helps reduce the threat posed to birds and people by climate change."

I assume the oil and hydraulic fuel leakage would have been realized as well and still the Audubon Society strongly supports renewable energy.

windexchange.energy.gov...#:~:text=Turbine%20Siting%20and%20Bats&text=To%20minimize%20bat%20mortality%2C%20wind,warn%20bats%20a way%20from%20turbines.

Again, I will say that government should not take away citizen's rights but if government believes there exists a climate crisis and renewable energies the answer, then the fight is backed by government's belief that what they are doing is justified and necessary for all citizens. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" quote comes to mind.

Again, I will say that government should not take away citizen's rights but if government believes there exists a climate crisis and renewable energies the answer, then the fight is backed by government's belief that what they are doing is justified and necessary for all citizens. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" quote comes to mind.

I appreciate your response, but...
First of all, the government most certainly does not have the people's best interests in mind. In anything right now.

And second, the Constitution comes to my mind in all this.
Like I said, there is a lot more research.
It just isn't obviously easily available to the public.

Think about why that is.
Because a narrative is being pushed. One they want you to believe, at all costs.

originally posted by: chiefsmom

Again, I will say that government should not take away citizen's rights but if government believes there exists a climate crisis and renewable energies the answer, then the fight is backed by government's belief that what they are doing is justified and necessary for all citizens. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" quote comes to mind.

I appreciate your response, but...
First of all, the government most certainly does not have the people's best interests in mind. In anything right now.

And second, the Constitution comes to my mind in all this.
Like I said, there is a lot more research.
It just isn't obviously easily available to the public.

Think about why that is.
Because a narrative is being pushed. One they want you to believe, at all costs.

If government believes in climate change caused by certain human activities within the energy sector then of course they will push the narratives where they think they have evidence to push certain remedial measures or take control for the protection of all citizens and the environment and the planet, is all I am saying.

Someone once said here on ATS that the Constitution is not absolute. Doesn't that apply when people's lives or the country or the planet is believed to be threatened in different ways?