Lockheed Nuclear Fusion Reactor DOA

Remember this headline grabbing thread?? (link to ATS thread)

Lockheed says makes breakthrough on Fusion Energy project

originally posted by: Nicorette

WASHINGTON (Reuters): Lockheed Martin Corp said on Wednesday it had made a technological breakthrough in developing a power source based on nuclear fusion, and the first reactors, small enough to fit on the back of a truck, could be ready for use in a decade.

Tom McGuire, who heads the project, said he and a small team had been working on fusion energy at Lockheed's secretive Skunk Works for about four years, but were now going public to find potential partners in industry and government for their work.

Lockheed says makes breakthrough on Fusion Energy project

That was the headline for this ground breaking news.

The claim was to have a fusion reactor up and running in five years. The claim was that having a small team allowed for rapid prototyping and development of their alternative (neither a stellarator, a donut shaped reacor, nor, a tokamak, which is a large cored apple shape). There's was a tube. With no further information given at the time. I finally figured out what the heck the configuration was: a tube with internal, shielded, superconducting magnets, forcing the plasma down the center. In the main chamber, the plasma collides from either side of the tube, like two fire hoses aimed at each other. This plasma blooms towards the reactor chamber above it as a disk. The entire reactor is surrounded by even stronger superconducting magnets that force the plasma to seek a new path and it runs along the wall back towards the ends of the tube. Using something called a "reverse field" (or "Z") pinch, the plasma is drawn towards magnetic mirrors that reflect a narrow beam back down the center of the reactor. The interior magnets keep the beam aligned down the center where it collides again. They add more fuel and radiowave radiation to heat the plasma up. The cycle is repeated and the plasma both grows denser and heats up. When the conditions for fusion are achieved, the plasma ignites and kicks out high velocity neutron particles. These flow through the reactor wall and hit the FLiBe (fluoride-lithium-beryllium) blanket where tritium is generated, the high speed neutrons are converted to heat, and a heat exchange converts the energy to generate steam to turn a generator.

Now why Lockheed Skunkworks couldn't just come out and say this, in such simple language, is beyond me! I spent a few years learning about plasma density, Beta limits, Q, magnet strength of superconducting magnets (what a unit Tesla is and what 20T vs 15T means... fyi, means you can shrink the reactor size by 1/4). I also began looking at other fusion efforts and dumped my dumb comprehension of nuclear fusion into a thread: New record for fusion.

In it, I keep on mentioning that we are hearing nothing from Lockheed. I had to keep looking up presentations and checking the patents that Lockheed filed (a lot was about the distributed computer control of multiple reactors to create a grid).

Years passed. Still no news.

That is never a good sign for any nuclear fusion project...

Lockheed Martin’s Skunk Works has canceled an ambitious project to build a nuclear fusion reactor, a top executive said on Aug. 28, confirming a previously undisclosed decision made at least three years ago.

aviationweek.com, August 30, 2023 - Skunk Works Halted Nuclear Fusion Effort Before 2021.

WHAT!!!????

Sorry but the aw article is subscription only (and I ain't got one).

But for the love of Pete!

A world changing source of energy. The "hush hush secret" power source behind the big black triangle UFOs! The links and trails to Lockheed's redox flow battery project and their future plans. A cheap method to clean up our environment. A new rocket engine design. A shared cost pipeline for superconducting magnets with Commonwealth Fusion. THE FUTURE!!!

Gone.

Not even a "sorry to get your hopes up," love note to say good bye. Just a rumor that the project was defunded and a point blanks question with a no BS answer (you have to at least acknowledge that!).

No Lockheed fusion reactor to save the day.

What else doesn't exist?? BBTs?? The Easter Bunny?? The so called "autumn" equinox??

Pffft.

I need a drink...

PS - Lost my stupid smart phone so may not respond immediately! Sorry for making it look like a post and run!!

My first thought is that they might have been funneling that money somewhere else that needs to be quietly defended in the wake of recent events.

ITER is also in a mess:

World’s Largest Fusion Project Is in Big Trouble, New Documents Reveal

The International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) is already billions of dollars over budget and decades behind schedule. Not even its leaders can say how much more money and time it will take to complete

link here

So now what? Back to fracking for oil?

What we need is a moonshot to fusion, not more debacles or make-work projects with the future perpetually 50 years away.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Maybe they figure why tell the public about a future the
public won't be around for any way. Cant allow climate
change to be deterred right now. That would ruin their
whole spiel.

Perhaps they got the answers they were looking for and then pulled the funding so they could take the tech underground for nefarious reasons; perhaps to figure out the best way to capitalize on it?

Wouldn't be the first time. Look how they spread out research over universities and countries, each working a different angle. Gain of function worked like that for years....

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Maybe they just couldn't get it to work and are deciding to cut their loses.

Fusion is something that happens under immense heat and pressure. These conditions exists in stars, but are difficult to recreate on Earth.

The Easter Bunny is is real, just ask the noble Hare Club for Men.

I can't understand why they can't take water, charge it up with a catalyst, then stick it through a burner like an oil burner with strong magnets on it to break the bond of the water molecules. That could be used to generate flames like on an oil burner which is compounded by the energy released from breaking apart the water molecules in conjunction with burning the hydrogen and oxygen and air molecules that also would break apart. Use that to heat water to run a steam generator. Now plain catalyzed air could also be used and the energy is created by breaking bonds plus creating new bonds when the elements are burned and recombined. Not to sure how to neutralize the nitrogen in the mix, but I am sure a catalyst could accomplish that with maybe something added to the water to blend with the air.

Thought of trying to build this to heat my house, but am not sure what kind of catalyst and mixture I would add to the water or air vapor.
they have patented engines that burn water with a little organics in it utilizing a catalytic converter, but with those the compression actually makes any nitrogen combine with oxygen to form nitric oxide in small amounts from the nitrogen in the air I believe. Only under high compression will nitrous oxide add to the power generation of the engine.

I would love to see someone with more knowledge address the feasability of what I am talking about and if they want to patent it, go for it. If it works it will benefit society...I wouldn't mind a little recognition...and maybe a fish fry, but other than that, it is just an idea I was working on and I did do some checking to see if it was viable. Whether it is cost effective, I do not know, I was more into just cutting my fuel bills down plus also possibly generating a little electricity at the same time to run the furnace on top of heating the house. Somehow the water would need to be treated to keep out calcium and magnesium, because I feel those would dampen the process. Steam from the boiler used to generate electricity would be free of those two and more, basically it could be used to distill the water to feed the unit. Also the air mixture boing through the tub would need to be spinning so increase airflow close to the magnets. The electromagnets could be fed by the steam generator too.

Just an idea, but I do not have the necessary testing equipment to even try this efficiently.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Scotty to Capt Kirk: "Im givin ya all the power I can Captain, I've realigned the dilithium crystals and I can only get warp 8.5 out of her, ...

I am quite sure they have taken this to a Black Op. Man will figure it out. Its just too bad that the world is run by sexual deviates

No company, corporation or industry does ANYTHING in the best interests of humanity. Any efforts for research, development and advancement are for one reason and one reason only....

Motivators change and announcing such a breakthrough years ago might have simply been PR in an effort to seek further funding or interest from those that fund.

All the time we hear about "breakthroughs" or new technologies that "could" be a game-changer. What was the last time something was actually released?

It's a sick world we live in

a reply to: TXRabbit

Sadly I emphasize with these sentiments a great deal. Wishing you a good morning and positive and inspiring day. Remember that by uplifting each other and revealing the machinations of terror, we pull our human family closer to the truth.

To me it's more interesting that it hasn't been continued, all hush hush.


I've had an idea about why, very conspiracyish.....

If they invent it, it can be copied and the tech goes to the Chinese 'n' Russians and it's ANOTHER race.

If they DON'T invent it, it can't go anywhere, and current situation continues.

If it's already invented, in some lab, in say Antartica or Moon or elsewhere then space force can continue doing what it's doing. UFOs turning off nukes. Project blue beam can still happen. If you want to control the planet then you need to get the jump on EVERYONE and do the job properly. Nuclear fusion would be such a great 'weapon'.


I wouldn't be surprised if they are hoping for the WW3 scenario, mass death to sort out population and secret tchnology to start the human race again with those w@nkers in charge and introducing all the tech that they've been hiding.
Ultimately, somebody wanting to be king of the castle as it were.

Just a thought.

It sounds pretty exciting.

I wonder what they'll REALLY have in 10 years. With the way Lockheed works, this small fusion reactor is probably something they dug out of their basement from 1951, brushed the dust off of, and decided to tease the public with.

originally posted by: MCurns
To me it's more interesting that it hasn't been continued, all hush hush.


I've had an idea about why, very conspiracyish.....

If they invent it, it can be copied and the tech goes to the Chinese 'n' Russians and it's ANOTHER race.

If they DON'T invent it, it can't go anywhere, and current situation continues.

If it's already invented, in some lab, in say Antartica or Moon or elsewhere then space force can continue doing what it's doing. UFOs turning off nukes. Project blue beam can still happen. If you want to control the planet then you need to get the jump on EVERYONE and do the job properly. Nuclear fusion would be such a great 'weapon'.


I wouldn't be surprised if they are hoping for the WW3 scenario, mass death to sort out population and secret tchnology to start the human race again with those w@nkers in charge and introducing all the tech that they've been hiding.
Ultimately, somebody wanting to be king of the castle as it were.

Just a thought.

Recall when our energy secretary announced the “fusion breakthrough” earlier this year, she stated in her first opening remakes about having a new weapon.

If it could be used for defense, you start there first.

I don’t love that, but, it makes sense - for many of reasons you mention.

If you’re not first, you’re last, in games such as this.

a reply to: MCurns

I think that is part of it.

The other part is that it probably involves a bunch of technology that has not been released in the mainstream yet. I mean, for example, since 2014 when this was announced, a high level VP type was talking about technology and the future of LM. He mentioned in passing that they created a graphene oxide water filter and he gave a general explanation: you fire off methane (or some gas, i cant recall exactly) in an evacuated chamber, mist in some oxygen, ignite the mess, collect the carbon flakes, and sort them out. You take like size and construct a sheet of graphene (or GO) that can take reverse osmosis pressures and purify water. I think, that the scientists were actually able to separate heavy water from regular using the same filter (different process than RO). If that is the case, I have been wondering why LM did not jump in at Fukushima, offer to pre-filter the deuterium/tritinated water and just dump regular dirty sea water back into the ocean!

Again, I think admitting 40+T magnetic coils and hoping that somebody would make them commercially so they would not have to reveal that they have this kind of tech meant LM would be in the Operation/Repair business which does not really make money (most of the operation is computer controlled, so like Homer, you sit there with your feet up watching the clock instead of steering plasma around a fusion reactor using your knowledge and experience).

Which makes me wonder what other technology is hush-hush probably something like room temp superconductors because you can waste a bunch of money just pushing electricity down a wire.

I think tritium is also highly regulated because of the hydrogen bomb. I have the feeling that Lockheed kicked in their support and knowledge to their cousin company (through MIT), Commonwealth Fusion.

@all, the commercial sector will probably beat the scientific community to the fusion as energy punch. Right now, they can run at the set regime, they can steer the plasma, they have the computer control codes (the code is shared around the world because something like two companies make the control boards!) to do all this, they have AI to actually run the reactor in real-time, and are starting the manufacturing pipeline for high temperature superconductor wires, so basically, all they need is a Demo fusion reactor that generates electricity to prove it can work even if they are still arguing about the quantum mechanics of why it is working!

Besides, like has been said often, LM probably already created one, used (still in use) one, and have them deployed around the globe at larger secure facilities.

I was just being existentially melodramatic!! (i.e., we already have BBTs and the autumnal equinox will happen unless the LHC creates a mini black hole and knocks us out of orbit!!)

a reply to: lordcomac

Hey, if Elon got in trouble with FTC for mentioning company held plans that could influence the stock market, then telling the world that you have a compact nuclear fusion reactor only to say, "just kidding" should be a felony!

Besides, did you see that LM will be developing a "nuclear rocket" for some space project. And lets face it, it is easier to engineer a tube that bottle rockets plasma out the back end rather than contains it in a sealed tube!

Just sayin'...

a reply to: lordcomac

Actually, it was coming the out the other way!

It went from a "black project" to an announced project with a general timeline. Most of the news is about how the world would change and not about the technology. The real news was that Skunkworks was releasing the technology to the world! The black project was going white. THAT was the huge reveal. If you look at one of the photos you will Dr McGuire with a huge grin on his face and hand brushing back his hair like "I can't believe that management is letting this out of the bag!"

This is oddly inline with ALL nuclear fusion funding! We move along at a great pace, hit a wall (in the 90s, it was the high temperature superconducting magnets were not known), so they did things like design ITER which is using 70s/80s tech to create a fusion reactor! Then, the schools started in and designed current tech reactors, including a stellarator that built in Germany, W7-X, using "new" (then) super computers, which led to MIT creating both Dr. McGuire and the ARC/SPARC concept. A grad student sat in a lab hand soldering high temperature REBCO superconducting wires together and made stronger magnet than ones in use! Then (this is 2014), LM Skunkworks announces they can do this (first link in OP) which was met with a lot of skepticism (and cynicism). And guess what? The cynics were right!

That is what chaffed my butt. But I should have known. If you can't get more than 6% return on investment per year then you did not graduate with a MBA from an Ivy League school!

The long term is the goal. Not the "make money now". We have spent years destroying our environment, why not let us win one and give us nuclear fusion energy so we can, in a short amount of time, spend some of that energy cleaning up our mess??

At least that is my dream of nuclear fusion energy. We use a little, which everybody still pays for, to clean up this place. All of not. Not just carbon dioxide but the chemical dumps, methane, CFC, plastic, unused oil wells, waste water (here is a free idea: us the waste water to add to supercritical CO2 taken from the atmosphere and shove all of it down an empty oil well and turn it back to sandstone). See, when you have unlimited energy, the "it costs too much" argument becomes meaningless too. It is just that the lazy, fat, rich bastids don't think about anybody but themselves.

*steps off soapbox*

originally posted by: lordcomac
My first thought is that they might have been funneling that money somewhere else that needs to be quietly defended in the wake of recent events.

Yeah , more than likely siphoned off & into weapons of war .

Seems like they lost most of the brain-trust behind the project.

Wonder if one of them could have been Stanton Friedman. There were no updates to this skunk works project after the year 2019 when he passed away. He barely ever talked about his real profession.

The compact fusion reactor page is still up on LockheedMartin.com

Link to LM

Meanwhile, Wikipedia states:

The project was active between 2010 and 2019, after that date there have been no updates and it appears the division has shut down.

wikipedia.com - Lockheed Martin Compact Fusion Reactor.

On the funding front, one of the last updates I had read was they were funded in 2019 for T5 CFR.

Two years is a long time. My other thought is that management changed and the new boss didn't care about funding the predecessor's projects.

Again, a complete shame.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

All of that usually means a project has gone black. I guess the YAL-1 comes to mind. If I can think of another example I'll post it.