Until death do us part - 1st draft

I feel that I should define my religion in some way. This is an attempt at definition.

My Religion is an oxymoron. Religion is a bond. It isn't about me. It's about what and who I am bound to, and the bonds themselves. Okay, I am a part.

It may be fashionable to say things like "I am not religious, I am spiritual". People point out that bonds are limiting, that the real can only be found by breaking free from the bonds. They conclude with statements like "Religion bad; Spirit good; absolute freedom is not only real, but is achievable."

I'm sorry, but my world-view is nothing like that.

I am Earth bound. I breath, and I eat, and I drink. I am bound by my surroundings, the elements that make up me. I live in time and space, in a particular changing and shifting social milieu.

...
You know what? I don't think many people care about my religion. I'll probably write it up differently later anyway.

It's inescapable though.

We are in this bond for life,
Together,
Until death do us part.

It's about what and who I am bound to

I respect that. More about what I am bound too here. Got chemistry, gravity and other definitions of physics that piece together it as best we know for now. When it comes to the people, family is a big one for those bonds.

As for those greater social bonds, on the back foot with those globalists agendas.

Ha! The pact with that Jewish devil known as; Jesus Christ means everlasting life and an eternity in Jewish hell... So how are you gonna part with it? Man clinging to woman and woman clinging to man won't do it as that only "begets" more children in Jewish hell.

Try not to forget whom the so called Biblical "God" loved(The Jews) and what his only begotten(meaning born in hell)son loved(The World). When trying to offer up a reply to this post.

a reply to: kwakakev

As for those greater social bonds, on the back foot with those globalists agendas.

I've never studied Political Science or Macroeconomics. But I am a consumer. I wear clothes made in different countries. The PC that I'm using now was made, at least in part, from components produced very far from where I live. Then there is food that I eat which I did not grow. Supply chains, etc.

Words can be tricky things. I looked up Globalism on Wikipedia and before the first two paragraphs was the note: "Not to be confused with Globalization."

In the sphere of International relations, once again, I am a consumer. Post United Nations, NATO, Geneva Conventions. I didn't produce these, but have lived under the umbrella of these. Maybe my life would not have even started without these, or been very short and brutal.

Back in the 1980s, my family and I moved into a second story low rent apartment. A neighbor lady owned a dog which was a mix of Australian Shepherd and Pit Bull. It was known to bite. She told me that because of its breed it was crazy because of the brain size not quite matching the brain capacity. But she intended to keep it for protection.

One day I was eating pancakes in the courtyard off of a yellow Tupperware plate. The dog came up and looked at me like "Why yes, I will eat pancakes too."

So I put the plate down and the dog ate pancakes. When I bent down to pick up the empty plate, the dog didn't just bite me, he latched onto my hand quite firmly, and looked at me like "What cha gonna do about this?"

What I did was stare at him with a sort of incredulous expression. He stared back. And thus the stare down continued for about 20 seconds until he finally released my hand and sauntered off with a dismissive attitude, like "fine, have the empty plate."

There may be a moral to that story, and maybe I wrote it because I remembered it yesterday and didn't feel like putting it somewhere else.

You sound angry.
Just saying...
a reply to: Crowfoot

a reply to: Lucius Driftwood

Impossible to know "feeling" from reading words other than whomever reading them sees that they them self would be angry if they had posted such a thing them self.

If that's what they elicited in you; Then it says more about you; Than it ever could about me; However I do understand how setting a scene and dramatizing words operate as in fictional writing etc and some words paint what music more often gives a sense of emotion... However that emotion comes from oneself directly; As acid and base are just acid and base one accepts and one doesn't depending on their order yet no matter; Which way they are added? Still acid and base.

What I said about me? Was saying what I know as a fact of that entire religion from Jews all the way to the Christian cults distilled down to the actual truth or essence of it. Meaning laughable if anyone thinks it amounts to saying anything else out of the incalculable amount of words that people have spoken about it.

Kinda like people use circle argue circle use sphere complain sphere and in silencing that all one would have to do is say the formulas for the circle and sphere are not the same.

But what I stated is exactly what they already have themselves; Without over complicating it.

a reply to: Crowfoot

So how are you gonna part with it?

This was the only question mark that I saw in your post.

Jewish hell doesn't have a place in my religion, unless you are referring to life on Earth as Jewish hell. I looked up Hell in Wikipedia under Judaism, and there doesn't seem to be a consensus opinion. The conceptions (mental notions) don't usually include the concept of eternity however.

As to how I part with it, I don't think that I am bound to someone else's mental notion. Unless I adopt that notion (internalize) it is irrelevant to me.

a reply to: Crowfoot

Lucius is right. Then you spent a few paragraphs showing it while trying to talk yourself out of the fact that you are angry.

You sound like you could use a hug. Yeshua gives the best ones. I prayed for you---that you could find some peace. Hope it doesn't make you angrier. God bless, Crowfoot.

a reply to: The GUT
I just love reading your posts - you're one of the most generous hearted people I've ever known!

It always puzzles me the way so many atheists expend so much energy hating on the 'God' they don't believe in...

a reply to: Lucius Driftwood

Sounds more like hate than anger.

a reply to: The GUT

Hi Gut.

I think that you are one who identifies himself as Christian. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It is a fact that Christianity exists in the World. Whatever I think about that does not change the fact. The question for me is is it a helpful thing or a harmful thing? That has no simple yes or no answer.

Is human civilization founded on "Judaen-Christian" values? No. civilization predates that.

I am a non-Christian apologist for certain manifestations of Christianity, and opponent to others. The helping of others that some Christians do I approve. The wanting to rule the World as a Christian theocracy, manifested by others, I disapprove.

You sound like you could use a hug. Yeshua gives the best ones.

As far as I have seen, the sacrament, sometimes called Mass, Eucharist, or Lord's Supper, is very central to Christianity. Some regard it as ingesting their Lord, some see it as metaphorical, but to almost all it is an inclusion into a body.

It really matters how a person thinks of their Lord, as to how the sacrament effects them personally. Vengeful? Helpful; benevolent?

Christians who think of their Lord as benevolent toward others (strangers, outcasts) are in a better position to give good hugs. Other hugs? Not so much. Sus

a reply to: pthena

Yes, we are ultimately in agreement. One of my very favorite Bible verses:

He has told you, O man, what is good;
And what does the Lord require of you
But to do justice, to love kindness,
And to walk humbly with your God?

a reply to: pthena

Since its your religion what you accept and doesn't is your business I can say the matters of heaven are not as easy as it seems' Which is a very good reason why many people supplicate to ones previously established in both orthodox and unorthodox manners.

Some of them are very difficult and demanding to where there is no end other than pointing out that existing anywhere was already stated as suffering... However when the person realizes the are easily accepted in just about any heaven from that practice only then are they humbled but have lost their teachers path.

a reply to: The GUT

I have legitimate reasons to be angry but being that way has led to too much harm at the cost of freedom. When I'd rather be free than in bondage then supplication and surrender is not on the itinerary.

I was raised Orthodox loved orthodox and so were my parents but they left that for some cult dividing the entire family putting everyone at war with each other that has not stopped for close to 40 years so why isn't it fair? They got to grow up orthodox undisturbed celebrate all the holidays etc see family during those times... Then abandoned it for a profit driven path where giving up holidays and family meant more income for the cults coffers.

Whats worse is the stance that everyone else is wrong and their cult is right and all the pressure for people still happy to try to be family and happy with their orthodox, holidays and family not cult... To where sadly, the title of the OP of until death do we part is accurate as far as the choice of those that chose a cult and war with real family and people that still love them despite that choice.

I appreciate the thought GUT as all it seems I have done since their choice of cult and breaking up family is study all of it. There is a possibility of knowing way too much for one's own good where direct experience has made faith an impossibility and knowing that trying to point it out as real to those with no faith, those with faith as truth? Only paints oneself as a complete loon or nut job as wisdom clearly points out that in attempting to do so is a futility.

For thousands of years people spent time with the prove it bring it and we will refute it and point you in the direction of reality for one's happiness and health for this earthly existence as it is all we have for now and making the best of it is the purpose while that time is short even if it has been decade upon decade of hell eventually there will be release and so much dispassion for that earthly existence will have grown that it is likely they wont chose to incarnate in it again. When thats the case? One could say what we have been doing as an earthly existence is a failure and yet some knowing that keep choosing to be reborn into it in the previously mentioned futile attempt of changing that.

a reply to: Crowfoot

That was beautiful and profound. Pain and all. I have a story so similar to yours it blows me away.

And I understand the logic of "knowing way too much for one's own good." The concept is actually kind of broader than I thought when I started grappling with it and has some related concepts---at least in my tendency to overthink.

For example: Wisdom vs Intellect. Obviously intellect is a valuable tool. The sharper the better generally speaking.

But I remember sitting in a humble living room with a humble farming family with Jeopardy on T.V. They were enjoying throwing some questions to the answers---as that game is played. I was killing them though. But they got a kick out of it. They love me, I love them.

However, not long after I went to one of their funerals. It was packed with so much genuine love for all the love and care the fine lady had given to other's over the years that I was moved at depth. Educated even you might say.

I could beat her at Jeopardy...but my funeral won't even come close to making the statement her's did. Wisdom, I think, is spiritual intellect. I mean, what if our "logic" base is not only screwed up, but not especially needed when we're talking about the metaphysical?

a reply to: The GUT

I see intellect as you said a tool... That can cut both ways; In absent mindedness the swinging of it injures in all directions; While mindfulness swings it properly at the matter in hand.

How I see wisdom is as a mirror; That needs to be constantly polished or else one loses face and starts swinging the intellect wrongly again.

So yes quite similar in some sense.

The only frustrating part is seeing people swinging both at someone not yet in the grave and she has done the best she could to keep the peace; As in her heart she didn't want to join that cult either but her not waging war on it kept the peace. That unfortunately has been overlooked where other siblings have two itchy hands of always expecting some letter or money. I am only here at her request in her final years and it's sort of the same as her job has been; Just to keep the peace.

a reply to: Crowfoot

However when the person realizes the are easily accepted in just about any heaven from that practice only then are they humbled but have lost their teachers path.

It seems that our life experiences are quite different. I was the runaway from what I was raised in.

It was a very sectarian sect of Christianity which thought of itself as the last small group with truth and righteousness that expected persecution and even death from other "so-called Christians". Lots of paranoia.

In my late teens I decided that I just wanted to be normal. So I left on a quest for normal Christianity, more Orthodox. So from denomination to denomination I went. It took 26 years, a miracle, and a crisis for me to discover that I wasn't even a Christian (according to my own definition).

Neo-paganism didn't seem to offer anything for me. Shamanism did though. Visions, manifestations of deities, seeing the interconnections and interactions of everything. And eventually the normal mundane (worldy) and natural.

There really isn't anything for me to teach. My religion can fit on a bumper sticker.

------
After I formally joined the first nonsectarian Christian Church, back in 1978, I visited my older sister. When I told her, she reacted with fear, "So are you now going to come after me with a gun?"

That hurt, alot. I didn't say it but I thought "You don't know me at all, do you."

a reply to: pthena

That's normal; When someone is searching for them-self in it. In a cant see the tree for the entire forest situation... As that's usually why people are there as well... Other than it is; Tradition and going through the motions of what is expected.

I am not going to say that; That/those is/are the wrong reason(s)... Just that it is the wrong method.

The real method is the path of service.

Going to any service; Is first and fore most: Self service. Losing that then will one find their way as; That is the correct path... Whether there is service on it or not and no matter what religion it is.

a reply to: Crowfoot

That seems very correct.
Thank you.

originally posted by: Crowfoot

The only frustrating part is seeing people swinging both at someone not yet in the grave and she has done the best she could to keep the peace; As in her heart she didn't want to join that cult either but her not waging war on it kept the peace. That unfortunately has been overlooked where other siblings have two itchy hands of always expecting some letter or money. I am only here at her request in her final years and it's sort of the same as her job has been; Just to keep the peace.

That's heartbreaking. I am definitely sending a hug, Crowfoot. I hug hard though so I hope that's okay. I'm in a caregiving situation too where "peacekeeping" and family disfunction comes into play. So I know the kind of pain that stems from love but gets smacked in the face so to speak for trying. I know it's hard, especially considering the familial history, but I'm sure you're quite the blessing. And maybe that's the best we can hope to be.

You've opened my mind a bit and I'm also not feeling as alone in my situation. Thank you.

(---O---) That's my virtual version of the hug I referenced.