Mexico Tries Cloud Seeding

www.cnn.com...

As an extreme drought grips Mexico, leading to crop losses, a lack of water and higher food prices, the government is trying to bring desperately-needed rain by turning to a controversial technology: cloud seeding.

In July, the country kicked off the latest phase of a cloud seeding project that aims to artificially stimulate rainfall. It is targeting 62 municipalities clustered in its north and northeast, with the aim of “combating the effects of drought and contributing to the recharge of aquifers,” according to a statement from the Ministry of Agriculture.

Cloud seeding is a technology first discovered in the 1940s. Since then, it has been used in around 50 countries, including in the United States and China. Mexico has been experimenting with weather modification for more than seven decades.

CNN headline describes as 'controversial' but they've been cloud seeding since the 1940s
apparently some people still don't accept it as effective.

anyone here with direct experience with?

I figure it's worth it.
I wonder if Spain tried it.

a reply to: ElGoobero

Being active in the "chemtrail" arena, you have to learn about this, as some people point to it as proof of something it's not.

The process needs clouds that already have moister in them in order to work. You can't seed nothing, there must be clouds. There is some argument over if the clouds would have produced rain either way, or if the seeing really worked as advertised. To my knowledge, that discussion is ongoing and not solved yet.

www.weathermodification.com...
that is a link to a company that does this.

a reply to: ElGoobero

The problem with the effectiveness of cloud seeding has always been “where was it going to rain without intervention”. So it’s hard to prove how effective it is.

A couple of the more liberal big cities in Texas were hiring a Canadian firm to seed the clouds to bring rain into their city. I think it was Austin, Houston, and possibly Dallas. They sort of took the water out of the clouds that rained on the fields and grazing ground of the cattle there. So if the big cities in the USA can pay for cloud seeding, why can't Mexico.

I am not that fond of cloud seeding because it alters weather patterns and can take away water from others that need it. Those big rich cities in Texas are not growing food or raising livestock yet they want water for their lawns and golf courses. This is not political, it is about the rich and prestigious taking water from everyone else. Mexico is not doing what those cities are doing, they are just working for food security in their country.

The problem is cloud seeding sometimes works too good and you get major flooding. This happened to the US navy back in the 1960s where they caused major flooding on the Kern river and took out a bridge in kernville calif.

In Alberta, Canada there has been a cloud seeding program for years. The aim was to promote hail before it might hit more agricultural sensitive areas. It is paid for by the private crop insurance companies. Of course this is contoversial. Some farmers downwind feel they are robbed of moisture.

The program is strangly called the weather modification project. Their wevsite shows live radar and the flight paths of their planes and other projects.

Perhaps they did the work in Texas. Texas and Alberta have much in comon.

weathermodification.com

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: ElGoobero

The problem with the effectiveness of cloud seeding has always been “where was it going to rain without intervention”. So it’s hard to prove how effective it is.

There was a test suggesting cloud seeding could make more precipitation, but we don't know how much it made and it's not cheap to have airplanes flying around so another question is how much does it really help and is that enough to make it economical?

"This verification and incontrovertible evidence this is occurring is really, really nice for us."

Still up for study is whether the approach is economical. "Does it make enough snow to make an impact on a water budget?" Friedrich wonders. "We still have to answer those fundamental questions."

Does cloud seeding really work? An experiment above Idaho suggests humans can turbocharge snowfall

If you do it on rare occasion apparently it's not too bad for the environment, but if it's done repeatedly using the most common material (silver iodide), remember that is the same substance put in water filters to keep bacteria from growing in the water, so it is toxic to at least the extent it affects bacterial growth. Here is a paper that suggests if it's done over and over again in the same area with silver iodide, it can build up and affect growth of microorganisms, so I wish they had a more environmentally friendly nucleation agent if they are going to seed in the same areas repeatedly:

Potential risk of acute toxicity induced by AgI cloud seeding on soil and freshwater biota

Silver iodide is one of the most common nucleating materials used in cloud seeding. Previous cloud seeding studies have concluded that AgI is not practically bioavailable in the environment but instead remains in soils and sediments such that the free Ag amounts are likely too low to induce a toxicological effect. However, none of these studies has considered the continued use of this practice on the same geographical areas and thus the potential cumulative effect of environmental AgI... These results suggest that AgI from cloud seeding may moderately affect biota living in both terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems if cloud seeding is repeatedly applied in a specific area and large amounts of seeding materials accumulate in the environment.

Emphasis mine.

This article may not be as rigorous but I think the point it raises about collecting samples fairly to check for accululation of toxic materials does need to be considered and current sampling procedures in the US may not be adequate. Does Mexico perform such testing at all?

Is Cloud Seeding Harmful?

Under the guidelines of the Clean Water Act by the EPA, silver iodide is considered a hazardous substance, a priority pollutant, and as a toxic pollutant.(10) Some industries have learned this all too well.

Obviously the cloud-after-cloud, year-after-year use of cloud seeding could lead to an insidious, cumulative effect. Especially when the same area is repeatedly seeded.

It goes on to say that testing the water is required in the US by the EPA, but may not even be in the right areas or bodies of waters since clouds tend to move around, so maybe more thorough testing could help ensure the environment isn't being excessively polluted with toxic silver iodide. I wonder if this is an even greater concern in Mexico where the environmental testing may be even less rigorous than in the US, if it's done at all.

a reply to: ElGoobero

If you've ever been to Albuquerque, you can see it happen in real time.

Sky is clear and beautiful.

Con trails start filling the sky from the Air Force Base.

A couple hours later, completely overcast.

originally posted by: ElGoobero
www.cnn.com...

As an extreme drought grips Mexico, leading to crop losses, a lack of water and higher food prices, the government is trying to bring desperately-needed rain by turning to a controversial technology: cloud seeding.

In July, the country kicked off the latest phase of a cloud seeding project that aims to artificially stimulate rainfall. It is targeting 62 municipalities clustered in its north and northeast, with the aim of “combating the effects of drought and contributing to the recharge of aquifers,” according to a statement from the Ministry of Agriculture.

Cloud seeding is a technology first discovered in the 1940s. Since then, it has been used in around 50 countries, including in the United States and China. Mexico has been experimenting with weather modification for more than seven decades.

CNN headline describes as 'controversial' but they've been cloud seeding since the 1940s
apparently some people still don't accept it as effective.

anyone here with direct experience with?

I figure it's worth it.
I wonder if Spain tried it.

Governments around the world are screwing with the environment and they want us peons to go without certain amenities because Governments can't even figure it out?

originally posted by: rounda
a reply to: ElGoobero

If you've ever been to Albuquerque, you can see it happen in real time.

Sky is clear and beautiful.

Con trails start filling the sky from the Air Force Base.

A couple hours later, completely overcast.

that's not cloud seeding.
en.wikipedia.org...

this may help.

a reply to: rounda

I lived in Albuquerque for 10 years. Not much overcast. Sunny days in NM.

There is however, a smog problem in Albuquerque due to the bowl its in.

a reply to: CoyoteAngels

You're not paying attention then.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: rounda
a reply to: ElGoobero

If you've ever been to Albuquerque, you can see it happen in real time.

Sky is clear and beautiful.

Con trails start filling the sky from the Air Force Base.

A couple hours later, completely overcast.

that's not cloud seeding.
en.wikipedia.org...

this may help.

Just because it doesn't rain, doesn't mean it's not cloud seeding.

a reply to: rounda

Do they still have the tall glowing candle at xmas time that indicates the level of smog?

Winter in Albuq is killer. The smog is some of the WORST in the country! The natural geography of Albuquerque keeps the bad air trapped in the bowl in winter time.

It's not chem trails. It's too many cars and fireplaces being burned in winter.

originally posted by: CoyoteAngels
a reply to: rounda

Do they still have the tall glowing candle at xmas time that indicates the level of smog?

Winter in Albuq is killer. The smog is some of the WORST in the country! The natural geography of Albuquerque keeps the bad air trapped in the bowl in winter time.

It's not chem trails. It's too many cars and fireplaces being burned in winter.

Just watch the sky.

I promise you, you will see it.

I guarantee you've seen it and never made the connection before. I didn't at first either. Was there for a few years before someone pointed it out.

a reply to: rounda

Those aren’t from the Air Force base, they’re commercial aircraft leaving persistent contrails.

a reply to: rounda

Cloud seeding requires clouds to already be present. Contrails are not rain producing clouds, and are not cloud seeding.

a reply to: rounda

There is no connection. That is the weather in Albq. The high Sandia mtns on one side, the mesa on the other. It's a bowl. Smog in the winter doesn't escape.

Hell, pilots flying out of Albq hate takeoff because they need so much lift to get out of the bowl.

Nothing nefarious about it but too many cars, too many fireplaces in the winter.

The airport and the base fly alot of planes.... but it's not causing the smog that stays trapped in the bowl.

So how much of our water is contaminated are we all going to turn blue ?

silver toxicity

Cloud-seeding programs to boost both rain and snowfall are now under way in Texas, Utah, Colorado, Nevada, Idaho, New Mexico and California. Arizona officials are considering two new programs.

silver iodide (AgI) to aid in the formation of ice crystals. Silver iodide exists naturally in the environment at low concentrations, and is not known to be harmful to humans or wildlife.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: rounda

Cloud seeding requires clouds to already be present. Contrails are not rain producing clouds, and are not cloud seeding.

Let’s just make the clouds!



It appears that a little bit of energy is expended to do this. Impressive though.