What the Heck is Wrong with Russia Is It Really That Bad?

All right, I'm fessing right up now, I been drinking, a decent local craft beer at 7.5% ABV. So I am probably falling victim to beer logic and will likely regret my thread tomorrow when I get up hung over. Be that as it may, I have been partaking in Russian propaganda on my RSS News Feeds. I included TASS (TACC) and the Moscow Times and when I have looked, I ask myself, "Is it that much different in Russia?"

I won't elaborate as I haven't studied this in any depth yet, as I just came to this while getting drunk. So, I wish Russian Troll was still around, as I may want to go Oswald (as in hit up my local Russian Embassy).

Can any comrade elaborate on my drunken meanderings?

You may want to take it down…it doesn’t take much of a violent threat to ruin lives in the age of social media…

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

In Soviet Russia : is not you who consume alcohol ; is alcohol who consume you !

Just joshing buddy.

Have never been there.

Have heard that, just like in in the majority of the world : most folks are awesome and friendly, and just want to take care of their families.

Then : like many other nations ; there are some areas that are best avoided.

Probably most of us all would get along, as long as we kept clear of Politicians™, and other Power-Mongers™ and Narrative-Pushers™.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Russia is like your cousin's family that you haven't seen in a while, nah, they can't be as bad as I remember.

Everything goes great at the party until they drag out their Amway products.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Blah

They are not so dissimilar to the States politically and if I were to believe the English version of their propaganda I might think it would be a fairly seamless integration minus the language and whatnot. Of course, I am more suggestible when imbibing, yet I find the Russian variety of propaganda more palatable than ours.

I guess I should expect that when first exposing myself directly to their news feeds.

Perhaps we can view this as a testimony for personal preventive measures when exposing ourselves to Great Mother Russia Speak.

originally posted by: AlexandrosTheGreat
You may want to take it down…it doesn’t take much of a violent threat to ruin lives in the age of social media…

Worry not my Droogs. I challenge them.

originally posted by: KKLOCO
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Blah

I was just harvesting my spring barley, admiring my blossoming hops and thinking of my heritage. Also, my mind was on my next batches of hobby brew I make from what I produce in my garden.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I don’t drink a lot, but when I do, I drink scotch.

This one was aged in a rum barrel and is real good.

The Russians are ok, the Yanks are ok, the Brits are ok, the French … we’ll let’s not get carried away

It’s the few hundred to a few thousand like minded narcissistic sociopaths that run the world’s countries that are our problem.

Not the average Russian, American, or Brit that are probably doing something similar to us on this fine Friday evening.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I better check our posts on the other site....

I've heard a raw egg in a glass of beer with a few splashes of hot sauce does wonders for a hangover. Let me know if it works.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I drink either a 9 point amber that I craft or in another mood a 9 point red infused with an ounce per 5 gallon of a certain island weed.

That being said, the current conflict in the Ukraine is Progressives laundering money for the last 20 years or so and Russia being antsy about NATO inching the property lines over.

Russia is responding the same way America did with the Cuban missile crisis.

American politicians are laundering a whole lot more money in response to a situation they set up themselves.

It's just theater... with silly people picking sides while both sides tax monies being laundered to political parties.

American voters/taxpayers are being screwed, while fighting amongst themselves.

So they deserve paying more and getting less.



ETA... I've been in Russia when it was the USSR and they had the same problem as us... wonderful people with no Governmental representation...

Since I must already be on "the list(s)" (aren't we all by this point?), I'll offer some opinions about the OP question. I'm a Usatian, and I don't personally know any Russians. I've been researching precisely this question since the Donbass festivities expanded to include Russia, or rather, since about March 2022. These are just my opinions based upon a lot of research. I won't touch upon the current conflict in the territories formerly known as the Pontic Steppe, AKA Western Scythia.

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"What makes Russian propaganda particularly insidious, is that they tell the truth." (can't remember who said this.)

1. They don't necessarily tell the WHOLE truth. (Keep cards close to vest).
2. They well understand "MASKIROVA" (from Russian word for "to camouflage", derived from "masquerade".) : doing something (particularly military related) in such a way as to confuse one's opponents about one's true intentions. (Remember they excel at chess..., 5D or otherwise.).
3. But they do make a concerted effort, such that the words that they (real govt. spokespersons) actually say are not outright lies.
4. The facts as they present them, will be from their point of view. Everyone has a point of view. It's important to try to understand others' points of view. I'm including this point, because deluded people do exist in the world, who are convinced that they alone are the sole arbitors regarding what may constitute a valid opinion.


Contrast this with American propaganda, which can best be described as "pissing on your head and telling you that it is raining." The American govt lies about absolutely everything all the time.
"Q: How do you know when a(n American) politician is lying? A: Their mouth is open."
No speculation can be assumed true, until they deny it. Which is to say, that do determine what MIGHT be true, one simply listens to American politicians and inverts any assertion they make.

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The responses from Nothin and NorthOfStuffx2 are both correct, and need to be repeated as often as possible. People are people, and most of us are fairly decent folk, who are just trying to get by, regardless of whence we hail. It's the 1% psychopaths who are the problem pretty much everywhere.

Russia has Oligarchs. Russia has Siloviki (powerful people who call the important shots). Yes, absolutely true. Yet, I have been unable to discern any substantive difference between those in Russia, vs those in America. Say it with me: "America is run by Oligarchs."

There actually is one crucial distinction between Russia & America here: in America, the Kleptocrats/Oligarchs and the Siloviki are the same in America. The "Citizens United" ruling by the US Supreme Court fully legitimized pay-to-play government in America... and maaaany of those paying are not even Americans. Actual human citizens of the USA (the 99%) were disenfranchised by that ruling (RIP USA). Whatever you thought your vote was worth, someone somewhere with a sh*t-ton of $$$ can easily drown you out.
In Russia, by contrast, Putin (forward face of their "Deep State") said to the Oligarchs: "you can keep your money, OR you can be in politics, but not both." When he laid down that ultimatum, some said "Oh, Yah?" He then threw the richest guy in Russia up against the wall, and tossed him in jail, to make the point to the rest of the Oligarchs. The point was to keep the biggest money-bags out of politics. I'm sure it didn't work 100%... the rich & powerful always find some way to spread their rot, but at least in Russia there is """some""" attempt at restraint.

Are Russian elections any fairer than in the US? I can't answer this one (wish I could). All I know is what I saw in the 2020 election, and again in 2022 in the USA. Are American elections any fairer than in Russia? Unequivocably: NO. (Thank you American Deep State for betraying the country you swore an oath to protect, and instead stabbed through the heart. Way to go, guys!)

I've tried researching corruption in Russia. It seems to vary a lot from region to region. The credibility of the sources varies a lot, depending on who is spinning the narrative.
"In America, we renamed Corruption to Lobbying, so that we can honestly say, that we have no corruption."

I watch a lot of videos of average folks, to try and get past the "official" pronouncements, both by American and Russian government. One sad fact that comes up again and again, are the ordinary Russians who moved to America or western Europe, who are now the targets of ill-will or outright hate attacks (because of events over which they have zero control). By contrast, Americans currently in Russia are still posting videos saying how nice everyone is to them, DESPITE all the sanctions, and members of the US govt gleefully gloating about killing Russians.

"In America, racism is not a bug, it is a feature." Divide and Conquer, again and again. Foster enough inter-ethnic hate amongst the sheep.

In Russia, it is a crime to foster inter-ethnic tensions. There are over 100 ethnicities in Russia (it really was/is an empire). Many of these ethnicities have their own regions (Oblasts) or republics withing Russia. After the USSR fell, the 15 constituent republics of the USSR went their separate ways, but the "autonomous republics" WITHIN Russia are still part of Russia. Some of these tried to leave Russia. Putin's party is "United Russia", and the basic party-line is that the borders of Russia will be retained (along the lines of "United we stand, divided we fall.").
It is US State-Department policy to encourage the break up of Russia into as many little pieces as possible: Divide and Conquer, to facilitate economic plundering. The next federal level down from Russia has like 88 regions. About 21 of these are ethnic Republics. These are like if the USA recognized the Navajo nation (and all the others) as political entities with separate representation in Congress. Most of them have relatively small populations. The most populous one is Tatarstan with a population of around 5 million (all of Russia is about 150 million). Ethnic Russians are around 95% of the population. Shortly after Putin took over (1999), Chechnya (and Dagestan?) tried to break loose. The Chechen war was pretty ugly, but Putin reached an agreement with Kadyrov of Chechnya: more autonomy, but stay in and work with greater Russia. Tatarstan also started making moves, but was peacefully persuaded to stay part of Russia. The biggest of these republics in area is Sakha (Yakutia): the coldest part of Siberia. Bigger than all of Australia. Population is under 1 million, of which 55% are ethnic Sakha/Yakuts, 32% are ethnic Russians, and the remainder seem to be mostly other Tungusic minorities.

If you read history books of America vs Russia:
America is replete with tales of genocide. This didn't happen in Russia. As Russia expanded, they incorporated these peoples as new subjects of the realm. Some of these populations did decrease (from introduced diseases, and forced settlement and collectivization under the Soviets), and others (Karelians and Komi, for instance) are just merging into the Russian general population.

(hit max chars - to be continued)

(continued from above)

If you read American vs Russian History books:
America has a long dark past of Slavery.
Russia is not much better, having had Serfdom until its abolition in 1867. Under Serfdom, most of the population was tied to the land as Peasants. They couldn't be sold like slaves, but aside from that, things were not a lot better. Stories about the Volga Boatmen being used as "beasts of burden" to haul boats upstream... peasantry living in filth, squalor, and ignorance.
The one bright spot of Serfdom, was that you could run away and join the Cossacks. These "escapees" fled to the Pontic Steppe, and took up a horse-riding nomadic lifestyle. Rather than drag them back to serfdom, the Tsar made a deal with them: "remain free, provided you fight for the Tsar whenever and wherever directed." Thus these free-spirits were transformed into shock-troop assets to the Russian Empire.

I recently finished reading a book written by an American Intelligence Officer stationed in Siberia in 1919. This was part of the international "peace-keepers" who intervened in the 1917 Russian Civil War (Americans, Brits, Japanese all had armies in Russia, while the White Imperial forces were fighting the Bolshevik Reds... spoiler: the Reds won.) I mention this book (on project Gutenberg.org), because the American Officer had some really nasty things to say about Russian peasants: filthy ignorant beasts whom it would take several CENTURIES to bring to a higher state of civilization. (He liked the Russian noble-class officers, BTW.) The Soviets were responsible for some really horrible things, particularly under Stalin, and in particular in their forced-labor Gulag camps. Acknowledge their faults. BUT, at the same time, realize that they brought education and medicine to the masses. 37 years after this book was written, these same Russians launched Sputnik (first satellite). The Soviets did correctly diagnose ignorance as mostly due to a lack of opportunity. When not shipping people to the Gulags, they were trying to feed, clothe, house, and educate everyone. Today, I can detect no difference between Russian descendants of peasants, vs descendants of "nobility".

..............

Russia is the "designated boogey-man".
Not going to lie, Russian is a difficult language to learn. They even have a different alphabet (cyrillic), so most Americans can't even sound out the street-signs. It's easy to foster confusion and misunderstanding between Americans and Russians.
Throughout the Cold-War, it was convenient (in America) to hype the "Red Scare". Those dreadful commies are going to come get you. This was a very profitable time for the MIC (military industrial complex).
For whatever reason, the Russian "gave up" and lost the Cold War.
It is my humble opinion, that the American PEOPLE also lost the Cold War.
While the USSR existed, the 1% American Oligarchs had to pretend that they supported actual democracy.
When the Russian Boogeyman went away in 1991, we talked about "the Peace Dividend". All that money spent on defense, on buying tanks, planes, and weapons that we hoped would never be used, all that money could be re-directed to Peace: better schools, roads, healthcare....
trouble was, that would cut into the profits of the MIC and of the Congresspeople they had purchased fair and square.
When the Cold War ended, the American Oligarchs pealed their masks off. Wages stagnated. Wealth inequality in America grew by leaps and bounds. The lot of the average American has gone demonstrably backwards from a peak sometime around 1960. Shipped the jobs all overseas... but the rich get richer.

The MIC needed a boogeyman to continue fleecing the taxpayers.
2001/9/11
America declared itself the sole SuperPower in the world. America declared a Global War on Terror (AKA "Slightly Warmer Forever War"). Russia wasn't playing anymore, so America stoked fear of Terrorists! They could strike at any moment, anywhere! Be scared! Be very Scared! (by the way, we need more money for weapons, and you need to surrender all rights under the Patriot Act, because... Terrorism!!!)

Long story short, those scary Muslim Terrorists just weren't scary enough.
20 years later, a triumphant Generalissimo Biden personally marched the victorious troops out of Baghram Airbase in Afghanistan, to a glorious homecoming and ticker-tape parades. Victory and Peace in our Times! Hurray!

Still not going to discuss the current conflict in former western Scythia.

Suffice to say: "OMG! Scary Russian Bear is back! So very Scary!!!" (by the way, we will need more of your taxes to be laundered through weapons purchases and deliveries... for as long as it takes! So very profitable!)

-------------------

So here we are again: Cold War 2.0
The Soviets are gone.
Something like 25-30% of Russians still identify as Communists, but they're not coming back anytime soon.
So who is Russia today?

They have more Freedom-of-Speach than current Cancel-Culture America can admit.
Their economy is growing, while America's is tanking under the burden of endemic corruption and graft.

America is under the sway of Klaus Schwab's WEF: "you will eat ze bugs, und you will own nothing." Soon we will all be mandated to drive electric cars, and all electricity will be sustainably produced (by upcoming government mandates). This can easily be restated as: "you will have no car, because you can't afford one, and you will sit in the cold & dark."

Russia, by contrast, still has a firm grasp on basic Logic. Living in a very cold climate, they understand that no heat means death, and they don't want that. They have plenty of oil & coal, and remain one of countries with nuclear capabilities (so even without fossil fuels, they can just make more nuclear reactors).

The best possible way to really get punched in the face with how different America and Russia are, is by listening to the speeches of their leaders.
In particular, listen to speeches by Putin, Lavrov, and Maria Zakharova. I don't know about you, but when I read the statements of these 3 individuals, I hear intelligent people, who care deeply about their country. Russia has a lot of problems, and they know it, and they seem to be doing the best they can for their country. They talk like people who love their country.

Then listen to speeches of ANY American politician.
It's like listening to 2-year-olds babble and lie to you about how they didn't put those crayon scribbles on the wall. 2-year-olds who will say anything at all to you, as long as they can steal another cookie out of the Treasury cookie-jar.
2-year-olds who hate you, and hate America.

In particular, about 5 years ago, NBC interviewed Putin. Listen to this interview (on youtube). It rambles all over the place on topics, but Putin is right on top of all the who/what/where/when/why's. I was impressed.

Then listen to Biden try to get through 2-minutes reading off a tele-prompter. Be proud.

I watched the 2020 American Election. I know what I saw: Fraud. I have no illusions that I live in a democracy any more. With Operation Lock-Step, all the western "democracies" (of North America and Europe) implemented Covid-induced Authoritarian measures in perfect sync. There are no countries left, which one can "pretend" to have a functioning democracy... failing that, could I at least have competent leadership?

Russia is a war mongering country, a dictatorship off by itself.
I've written before that my Polish Dad's family spent some years in the Siberian death / work camps back in WWII. And that his Mother perished there, his family was destroyed, and his Dad ended up marrying a Russian woman and staying there, having no home left in Poland.
My parents visited him in Russia, and said the conditions were terrible - I realize this was years back, but they had to use newspaper instead of toilet paper, because there was none.
I know we complain about our country, but his Dad spoke out against the communist government and was jailed for three years. He also said not to ever trust Russia, and that China would be responsible for the ending of the world.
Not to forget that he lived near the Russian / Chinese border, and told my parents that things were very tense between the two countries.
Everywhere my parents went with his Dad, the Russian 'secret police' followed them - to restaurants, shopping, etc. They were not bothered, but kept under close watch.
Extreme censorship and poverty under a dictatorship is what they witnessed, and the present state of our country worries me.

I'm a bit hungover, not too bad really.

Well, tnxoxodka sounds like a used car dealer, he almost has me sold on moving to Russia. Others here don't seem to feel that the Russians are much different than us considering the general population. Then there is the post above by RonnieJersey. A more sobering characterization than the others here and with more appeal as I too am sobering up from my over-indulgences of the night last.

Things will look different by this afternoon and I'll be back to my cold war attitude by then.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

You never thought what you read from Russian Propaganda that it is twisted to the core.. Russian propaganda machine is out of context nearly everytime they open their "mouths". Whenever they write about western politics, ppl, specially political people they tend to take messages out of context and twist those news to totally else what was really happening or said.. but remember they do not care about what they say (which are blatantly twisted ) what westerns think about them.. first of all their propaganda is not for westerns it is for their own citizens... mainly old people believe that propaganda without a doubt and rest of the folks some have doubts but they have more experince of news in english etc than old folks

Kudos on the remarkably well structured drunken thread

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck
I think you are totally disgusting drinking and typing. You need help. Specifically me, so next time you must invite me to oversee your habit to test whether your beer is poisonous or not.

To the OP:- Russia and the Russian people are not the boogie men that the western media want you to believe. As for Russia warmongering??????? When was the last time Russia went to war and I don't mean annexing Crimea etc. I mean war. The last time was Afghanistan, that didn't turn out too well for them. But what a lot of people don't know is when the US went into Afghanistan Russia supplied all valuable intelligence to the US.

How many countries around the World has Russia got a military presence? A few. Now tell me how many countries around the World has the US got military presence? A hell of a lot more than Russia. Now tell me just who is the warmonger here?

originally posted by: RonnieJersey
Russia is a war mongering country, a dictatorship off by itself.

Russia presently lacks imperialist aims. With her vast territories, there's no need to expand westward. Any Western political analyst worth his salt would tell you that in the event of invading western Europe, Russia would be unable to hold its gains for very long.

If Russia really has a dictatorship, then it must be remembered that even ancient republics were ruled by a dictator during wartime, this was referenced in The Dark Knight film.

But as a matter of fact, Putin's not a dictator yet. For a long time, he was like a condemned man on death row, with all the oligarchs, military-intelligence clique, and ultra-nationalists breathing down his neck. He's been too occupied with keeping these aggressive elements in line to assert his authority over the Russian people directly. He finally got some breathing room in June.

Putin had Prigozhin stage a coup to expose the disloyalty of military officers, make some points to his generals (showed how vulnerable they were to a coup, for example), seize nuclear depots, and concentrate his forces closer to Kiev. The coup was meant to lull the West into a false sense of security, and it seemingly worked, seeing as how they didn't take advantage of the opportunity and were content to let Russians handle Russians.

Furthermore, Russia presently lacks an enforced, uniform state ideology. Russian unity is just about achieving a common victory over the enemy. That's why you have Russians in high places complaining about western countries enjoying considerable advantages over Russian unity. That's how you have 19th-20th century assessments that all Americans think the same, whether they're found in the countryside or the city, being imprinted with the Puritan mentality.

One of my Russian contacts informed me that there has seldom been a time where Russia was not embroiled in a conflict (an exception would be under Alexander III). Superficially considered, this would appear to be the source of Russia's strength and is probably one of the reasons why Putin is waging war. Here, he may have taken a page from Hitler, who intended to maintain war on the eastern front every few decades to prevent the people's decline into lethargy.

originally posted by: RonnieJersey
Not to forget that he lived near the Russian / Chinese border, and told my parents that things were very tense between the two countries.

And that's what the Ukraine conflict is really about. Russia does not feel secure in the far east. US is not its main enemy.

originally posted by: RonnieJersey
I know we complain about our country, but his Dad spoke out against the communist government and was jailed for three years.

How do any of these past grievances you listed concern YOU personally? Why give power to the past? You'll forever be haunted by past Russia and keeping seeing it in modern Russia.

originally posted by: RonnieJersey
He also said not to ever trust Russia, and that China would be responsible for the ending of the world.

I'll grant that the Russians were devious back then, but so were the Prussians.

If China ends the world, then it's the West that bears full responsibility for China's decline, which led them down this road. Western diplomats, missionaries, etc. transmitted their exploitative and pragmatic conduct to the once honorable Chinese. The Chinese have a peculiar mentality, they're naturally inclined to learn from other cultures and emulate them. According to Cordell Hull, FDR indicated that China had a broad basis in Confucius and cautioned against comparing the Chinese with Russians, as they were not communal in the same sense. Communism did not change the Chinese mentality.