Blind Obedience to Law vs Spiritual Discernment of Good and Evil.

The Law of Moses was a ministry of death, designed to provoke sin from the weakness of the flesh.

[Rom 7:8 KJV] 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.

[2Co 3:6-9 KJV] 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation [be] glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

We do not have to keep the Law of Moses, because through faith, we share in Jesus' death to the Law - putting to death the flesh with its passions - and are now set free from the Law.

[Rom 7:6 KJV] 6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.

Under the Law, God commanded obedience apart from understanding of the deeper mysteries.

[Deu 29:29 KJV] 29 The secret [things belong] unto the LORD our God: but those [things which are] revealed [belong] unto us and to our children for ever, that [we] may do all the words of this law.

We, however, have the Holy Spirit and the mind of Christ. By obediently walking in the Spirit, God is willing to share with us his secret, unsearchable wisdom.

[1Co 2:16 KJV] 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

[Heb 5:13-14 KJV] 13 For every one that useth milk [is] unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Therefore, we must understand that the Law is fulfilled in loving our neighbors as ourselves. We do not follow a list of do's and dont's as Israel was commanded under the Law of Moses.

[Gal 5:14 KJV] 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Thus, when it comes to the various lists of sins that the apostles wrote about, we must first understand what those sins meant in reference to the Law. [The apostles excavated much of their doctrine from the Law of Moses.] We must further understand how those sins reflect a violation of love towards God and/or neighbor. Blind obedience is cautious. It works well for young believers who are learning spiritual discernment, but as we grow, blind obedience can only lead us into legalism and bitterness.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Blind obedience is always a red flag no matter the wrap.

a reply to: Terpene

I know, right?

I'm always suspicious when I notice falling objects obeying gravity.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
The Law of Moses was a ministry of death, designed to provoke sin from the weakness of the flesh

That’s a bit simplistic don’t you think
Laws were enacted early in Genesis, to end a revenge culture that was arising in the tribes
How does anyone govern, rule or protect without laws

Though, I do agree, Christians are not subject to a law outside of “Loving as Jesus loved”, but I would be reluctant to also not add that as James 2/14 pointed out, “Works” of love are required as evidence of service

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
The Law of Moses was a ministry of death, designed to provoke sin from the weakness of the flesh

That’s a bit simplistic don’t you think
Laws were enacted early in Genesis, to end a revenge culture that was arising in the tribes
How does anyone govern, rule or protect without laws

give each a weapon and let nature take care of the rest

I have seen it argued that Jesus instructions were only addressed to Jews (Matthew 15: 24). In regard to the laws there was no if's or but's from Jesus, the Jews were told to follow the Law...

For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:18-20

Gentiles however are not bound to Moses 10 commandments. According to Jews, Gentiles are born under Noah. They are bound by the seven Noahide Laws. Laws that might have been difficult for the less moral of yesteryear. But just common sense morality these days.

originally posted by: SigmaXSquared

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
The Law of Moses was a ministry of death, designed to provoke sin from the weakness of the flesh

That’s a bit simplistic don’t you think
Laws were enacted early in Genesis, to end a revenge culture that was arising in the tribes
How does anyone govern, rule or protect without laws

give each a weapon and let nature take care of the rest

not nature, revenge and pride
Problem was, kill my brother I kill your family
Kill my family I kill your whole tribe and on it goes

a reply to: glend

Jesus ended the Mosaic covenant for Jews, brought in a new covenant for all those who choose the Christ covenant, become christians
If Jews choose the OT law, it still stands but is impossible, Christ explained it was impossible at the sermon on the mount
Gentiles were never bound to any covenant with God that I was aware of, the Noahide laws is an interesting concept
Gods laws are written on our hearts

Noahide laws for gentiles, intriguing

a reply to: Raggedyman

I have tried to clear my mind of all preconceptions and have come to a far different conclusion. Jews don't just observe 10 commandments, they observe 613 Jewish commandments (mitzvot) contained within their bible. Some of which Jesus gave on the Sermon on the Mount.

Jesus was not abolishing the Law (matthew 5.17). He was teaching how the law should be fulfilled. That adultery (etc) must be extinguished in ones mind (no differentiation between thought and action in eyes of G_d). Thus Jesus was fulfilling the laws true holiness (aka power). Rather than abolishing the laws.

His warning "unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven" suggests he was an extremely hard task master. Demanding absolute righteousness from all his followers.

Is that cross too heavy a burden for Christians?

Matthew 16:24 "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me"

a reply to: glend

So, you think Jesus was teaching those laws or was Jesus qualifying them?
Can lust be extinguished from a human mind, can anger, greed idolatry?
Can those laws Jesus taught on the Mount be kept by any human being in existence?

No, Jesus didn’t abolish the Mosaic covenant, that’s very clear
What Jesus did was offer a new covenant, for those who knew they couldn’t keep the Mosaic covenant

The Mosaic covenant is impossible, Jesus made that clear, Jesus offered humanity another covenant, not based on law but love

a reply to: Raggedyman

He was teaching the laws with greater intensity of light. There are certainly laws that had a place and time. So yes he may have emphasized laws that had greater power for change.

All desires can be overcome. Deuteronomy 30:14 says that we can do it. When our love awakens the temple from its state of dormancy. The Word will meet us half way. Helping dissolve our remaining desires in consciousness. Bringing up long forgotten memories that we only need to witness. The remaining virgin consciousness will be born anew.

If we instead cling to our conscious self with all its desires. We will face two deaths. The first when our mind/body returns to dust. The second when our soul is again entrapped into another consciousness on life's merry go round.

That be our free choice.

a reply to: glend

Not sure I understand you because it sounds like you actually think you can live to the standards Jesus called the Jews to live by during the sermon on the mount?
You actually think you can live to those standards?
You actually think you do live those standards

You do know christians are become a new creation in Jesus?
You suggest that I cling to my old self?
Did Jesus die for nothing, is His love useless?

What it sounds to me, you are Judaising, not a good look if you are not a Jew

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: SigmaXSquared

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
The Law of Moses was a ministry of death, designed to provoke sin from the weakness of the flesh

That’s a bit simplistic don’t you think
Laws were enacted early in Genesis, to end a revenge culture that was arising in the tribes
How does anyone govern, rule or protect without laws

give each a weapon and let nature take care of the rest

not nature, revenge and pride
Problem was, kill my brother I kill your family
Kill my family I kill your whole tribe and on it goes

revenge and pride are two out of the 777 names of god

a reply to: Raggedyman

We all have two natures. Mind/Body and Soul. The Mind/Body is mortal, it is made of dust and will return to dust. Nothing can prevent its demise, nothing. The Soul on the other hand is immortal, existing in state of perfection, made in image of the Father.

When the serpent reared its ugly head (egotism chasing desires) it entrapped the soul inside the cloths of our Mind/Body. Our soul remains dormant, entrapped within.

By "denying ourselves" (again Matthew 16:24) as being "man". That "man" with help of the Word, steps aside. Freeing the soul so it can take over the reign's of our being. The laws are a means to that end.

So yes I simply cannot live to those standards. So I have to step aside for the one that can exceed any standards.

Jesus represents himself as our soul. Our new creation in Jesus is our new creation into our soul. Because our soul is one with G_d, labels of ownership/separation have no meaning in the greater reality.

We are to imitate Jesus. Carrying the cross to accomplish the death of the man we believe us to be.

originally posted by: SigmaXSquared

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: SigmaXSquared

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
The Law of Moses was a ministry of death, designed to provoke sin from the weakness of the flesh

That’s a bit simplistic don’t you think
Laws were enacted early in Genesis, to end a revenge culture that was arising in the tribes
How does anyone govern, rule or protect without laws

give each a weapon and let nature take care of the rest

not nature, revenge and pride
Problem was, kill my brother I kill your family
Kill my family I kill your whole tribe and on it goes

revenge and pride are two out of the 777 names of god

According to you, evidently

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Yes, God made an easier way available for us.