Christians are NOT to be perpetual sinners. Don't be gaslit by false doctrine.

A lot of Christians teach this idea that born-again believers in Christ are doomed to be perpetual sinners until death. They often rely on passages taken out of context to support this line of thinking.

For example 1John 1:8-10.

[1Jo 1:8-10 NASB20] 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

Yet if you read the very next verse, John explains that he tells us these things so that we may repent and stop sinning.

[1Jo 2:1 NASB20] 1 My little children, I am writing these things to you SO THAT YOU MAY NOT SIN. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

Similarly, it's often pointed out in James 3 that we all stumble in many ways. This doesn't necessarily mean we all individually have to sin in many ways. There are many ways to sin, and we have all engaged in sin at some point in our lives; but we absolutely must develop self-control!

[Jas 3:2-3 NASB20] 2 For we all stumble in many [ways.]...

In fact, if you keep reading, James explains that there is a way to direct the body so that we do not sin.

[Jas 3:2-3 NASB20]...If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to rein in the whole body as well. 3 Now if we put the bits into the horses' mouths so that they will obey us, we direct their whole body as well.

Why am I saying this? Because in Christ, we have died to sin, crucifying the flesh with it's passions. As long as we walk by the Spirit we will naturally abstain from sin.

[Gal 5:16, 24-25 NASB20] 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. ... 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let's follow the Spirit as well.

If you are a believer in Christ Jesus, then you can walk by the Spirit and abstain from sin by simply making love your priority and default mental attitude. It's just a matter of practice.

[Gal 5:14 NASB20] 14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the [statement,] "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

In fact, practicing righteousness and love prepares you for solid spiritual food.

[Heb 5:13-14 NASB20] 13 For everyone who partakes [only] of milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to distinguish between good and evil.

God is patient with us and gives us space to repent if we do sin. However, if we persist in voluntary sin, we risk losing our salvation. Note that the word translated "willfully", in Heb 10:26 actually means voluntarily[G1596].

[Heb 10:26-27 NASB20] 26 For if we go on sinning willfully[G1596] after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

[Num 15:29-31 NASB20] 29 'You shall have one law for the native among the sons of Israel and for the stranger who resides among them, for one who does [anything wrong] unintentionally. 30 'But the person who does [wrong] defiantly, whether he is a native or a stranger, that one is blaspheming the LORD; and that person shall be cut off from among his people. 31 'Since he has despised the word of the LORD and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt [will be] on him.'"

Don't let false doctrines or deceived Christians discourage you. If you believe in Jesus and love God, then follow his instructions to love your neighbor as yourself. If you act from love, you will not sin.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So, saved by works not grace
This is so wrong from a Christian perspective and accepted theology
What is your denomination BP, I am interested where you get your teaching from, what theological school teaches this doctrine?

a reply to: Raggedyman

We've had this discussion before. You didn't offer adequate support for your position.

This is so wrong from a Christian perspective and accepted theology

How often in the Bible has popular opinion been correct?

What is your denomination BP, I am interested where you get your teaching from, what theological school teaches this doctrine?

For many years, I was a free-grace provisionist and dispensationalist; but I've come to realize that virtually all denominations and theologies are either wrong or heavily distorted. Denominations are by definition heretical. I am anti-denominational. My understanding comes from prayerful study and practice.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

My understanding comes from prayerful study and practice.

Wow! So does mine, even though it's nothing like yours!

I love how we're all free to examine the evidence choose our Truth accordingly!

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

but I've come to realize that virtually all denominations and theologies are either wrong or heavily distorted. Denominations are by definition heretical.

Religion in general is essentially a control system construct. With a top tier group of "anointed" leaders with the majority of followers paying the bills. Fear of damnation is the prime motivator to keep the faithful obedient to the paradigms.

Political parties operate on the same principal. There's also a negative side....

a reply to: nugget1

Well, it's pretty simple really. If your ideas don't line up with what the scriptures plainly teach, then you're either not taking context into consideration or you're lying to yourself.

a reply to: olaru12

Religion in general is essentially a control system construct.

The anus is a control system and biological construct, which I am very happy to have in working order. Otherwise, things would get very messy. Faith, truth, and authority operate on similar principles.

Fear of punishment offers a base level of order to society, just as fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Everything has its appropriate place.

I dunno a ton of Catholic priests really like #ing children.

I believe your understanding is doomed for failure. Its not the abstaining of sins but the burning of desires that result in salvation. Unless we totally cast out the seven demons we can never achieve salvation. Its our desires that rule our destiny. If we still have any desire for the material world when we die. God will grant those wishes by returning us to the lake of fire. Until ALL our desires for the material world are distinguished. If our only desire is to be one with God. We will no longer will be allowed to return to the lake of fire.

So we have choice to remain as a material self with all its desires in the lake of fire forever and a day. Or to be born again in the spiritual self that has no desires for the material world.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

O wretched man that I am!

Paul says that in Romans.

No one stops sinning

Realize how utterly corrupt you are.

a reply to: glend

Until ALL our desires for the material world are distinguished. If our only desire is to be one with God. We will no longer will be allowed to return to the lake of fire.

I think you mean extinguished not distinguished. Or maybe not....ATS just gets more strange every damn day....

a reply to: olaru12

Thank you for correcting. Still drinking cups coffee to try get those neurons firing.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: olaru12

Thank you for correcting. Still drinking cups coffee to try get those neurons firing.

I hesitate to be the "grammar Nazi" I knew what you meant. But if some took what you wrote literally, God help us....

a reply to: olaru12

a reply to: Tucket

Romans 7:14-25 is Paul's experience under the Law. You have to read the context of the chapter, including chapters 6-8. Paul spoke in present tense for dramatic effect.

Woe to you if you're still wretched. But there is good news. In Christ, you can repent and stop sinning. It is possible if you choose.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: nugget1

Well, it's pretty simple really. If your ideas don't line up with what the scriptures plainly teach, then you're either not taking context into consideration or you're lying to yourself.

Which scriptures? And who's interpretation? The one all the churches teach, with each belief system different? Your interpretation of the scriptures? Or mine?

Proselytizers can be just as good at making one believe the scriptures say something that's completely off base, kind of like politicians.

a reply to: nugget1

Those are excellent questions. Take them to God in humility, and you'll find the answers if you persist. There's no point in asking me, because I'm pretty sure you've already assumed that you're right and I'm wrong.

a reply to: AngelHeart

That shouldn't surprise you considering 'Catholicism' is one of the four horsemen.

a reply to: glend

What are those seven demons sir? Can you extrapolate? Is it Buddhist teaching? Where can I find more?

a reply to: bipolarnightmare

It is thought in Christian circles that they are the seven things that G_D is said to dislike in book of proverbs - pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony and sloth. However, I suspect it may also relate to the seven seals in revelation (also seven hindu chakra) that must be conquered to allow light to enter our being. That being fear, guilt, shame grief, deception; illusion and attachment.