Honda can KMA...

/Rant incoming/

I recently moved house and, somewhere in the process, lost the keys to my '07 Honda 919 Hornet. Normally this wouldn't be too much of a hassle as most manufacturers can program a new key to the lock....I'm an ATV mechanic and I do it all the time with Can-Ams using the B.U.D.S software, but not Honda....oh no....lose the keys to your Honda and you might as well throw it down the rubbish dump. I called a number of Honda dealers and they all just tried to sell me a new ignition barrel and key....which is useless as they have to be programmed to the ECU which none of them could do...(also the original ignition barrel is not removable from the bike....I kid you not....)

Anyway, I found a guy in Melbourne who could do it, so I just had to send him the ignition barrel and ECU. This is where the fun started. To remove the ECU I first had to pick the seat lock. I bought a lock picking kit, practiced a bit, and managed to pick the lock. Next I had to remove the side covers, grab rail, cowl, and tail light....OK finally got the ECU out. Next came the ignition. Remove handlebars, risers, headlight and mounting brackets, and instrument cluster....finally got to the ignition barrel only to find it was riveted permanently to the top triple clamp.....F##K. OK, loosened forks and removed centre nut on triple clamp only to realize I couldn't remove it because the steering lock was engaged F##K F##K ...So I stopped to have a smoke and calm down a bit....I'd been at it now for about 2 hours.

Alright...next move...under the triple clamp are 2 castellated nuts with a lock tab washer between. I managed the bend the tabs with a fine pick and proceeded loosen the 2 nuts fraction by fraction with a pin punch and hammer. 30 minutes later the steering head shaft dropped out and the triple clamp came loose. So now I have to send the entire triple clamp with ignition barrel attached, along with the ECU to Melbourne......all for a lost f##king key. To summarize: Honda can kiss my sweaty bunghole.
/end rant/

a reply to: Flatcoat
Sympathia to you, the struggles sometimes!

When I overdid the fuel system in my Quattro Coupe and integrated a fuel catch tank, I had to replace the fuel pump inside the fuel tank. The swimmer-switch assembly fused to to pump chasing after 30 years. Used welding rods and half of a chair that I drilled holes into, to make latching points for the welding rod hooks that hold up the pump chasing in a tilted way so I can get at the screw heads with pliers, inside the hole. Always listening for that dropping sound: bare metal on bare metal.

To disassemble the whole pump assembly through a hole not bigger than my hand, felt like being at the gynaecologist, just the other side of the chair lol. Took me the whole morning. And when I had it out, I saw that it had catch-noses that I could have just loosened and the pump head assembly would have come off. Didn't know and didn't see, because of dirt and schmoo.

Now the fuel system has 0.001% sweat inside, for that extra Nm of torque

a reply to: TDDAgain

I feel your frustration...I reckon there's a class that all engineers take called "How to piss off a mechanic". I did a service on a Landboss last week, and to fill the oil there's a plastic access cover under the seat where the filler cap is. Only problem is the cover is screwed on from underneath. In other words, to remove the cover you'd either have to remove the engine, or completely disassemble the entire cab, seats, subframe, transmission tunnel covers and floor. It was the most ridiculous design decision I'd ever seen......10 seconds with an angle grinder and cutting disc made short work of it.....

a reply to: Flatcoat
Have you worked on boxer engines yet?

On six cylinder boxer engines, you have to join the piston and rod in the two opposing middle cylinders when the whole block is already assembled. For that, you go in with a tool from the side, through the foot bed of one of the outside cylinders, to insert the connection rod between piston and rod.

Then you go in with a foot long special plier to set the clamp that stops the rod from coming out again. If you set that clamp in the wrong way, like 90° rotated, it may open up due to vibrations and inertia @ high RPM and then the fun begins...

Engineers sometimes... I had AUDI here in my shop where I had to disassemble half of the trunk including the back seats to get to one of the CAN bus control units on the left side of the trunk. The # panels are connected in a way you start to dissassemble then counter clock wise and in the end, you can't pull it out and have to disasseble the whole back seat and push it towards the front, to get to that last screw.

Often I would like to drag one of these engineers by the ear and tell them "you hop in there now and try to change that clutch cylinder while you are upside down, don't forget to bring additional hands, too."

a reply to: TDDAgain

Have you worked on boxer engines yet?

I own a 1972 VW Kombi, but I haven't got around to pulling down the engine yet, so they're a complete mystery to me....from what I hear, they can be tricky so I may have to do a bit of youtubing before I try.....

I'm sure a good locksmith would have been able to cut and program a key without having to do all that??
I'm not an Automotive locksmith, I do all the rest though... My brother does automotive and I reckon he could have sorted that out.
a reply to: Flatcoat

a reply to: Flatcoat

For the old four cylinder boxers, it's not a big deal because you have two cylinder per bank. Things get difficult when you have 3 cylinders per bank.

Your boxer should be an air cooled, single camshaft, pretty straight forward technology, easy to work on. Lot's of room to work from above. I guess it's a Type 4 Variant?

a reply to: homerJ
You have to marry the key to the ECU, you can not just program a key and tell it "You're a key for this model now". The key talks to the ECU and has codes stored that the ECU will check.

You need to have the programmer, too. For that programmer you also need the software and the license. And the car / bike manufacturers do not give these out like candy. Because with it, you could in theory steal cars.

The programmer kits I have are licensed to my name and the manufacturer can see who programmed it.

a reply to: homerJ

Cutting a new key probably would've been fairly easy, but as TDDAgain says, the problem is with the programming. There's a guy in town here who says he could do it, but he'd have to physically cut open the ECU, de-solder the chip from the board, program it, and then re-solder it, which sounded a bit dicey to me.....plus he was bloody expensive. The guy I'm sending it to has a good rep, I've seen him recommended on various forums, plus he's a lot cheaper. The H.I.S.S. system on my bike is one of the earlier anti-theft systems, and from what I've heard, an absolute prick to bypass.

Yep... every now and then we get a model like that.... remove ecu, attach tiny jumpers with special secret locksmith programming box and software... Not cheap, and a total pain in the @$$. Most times we can do it through a dongle... but not always. The best auto locksmiths have developed important relationships with various Car dealers... Helps a whole lot.
a reply to: Flatcoat

a reply to: TDDAgain

Actually it's an old type 1 ... dual port 1600. I hear they can be a bit finnicky with crankshaft end float, and also main bearing oil journals not matching up properly.......maybe I've already watched too many youtube videos.....

I love Honda small engines, but their electronics are the worst.

Right before the American economy fell apart I bought a used Honda atv for use on my land that I don't live on.
It was nearly 20 years old so I didn't think much of it, until I rolled it and smashed up the computer on the handlebars.
A replacement was easy enough to find and install, but at exactly one mile it went into some sort of limp mode and now it only has one speed forward and reverse is barely functional.

I know it's the computer, I found a series of buttons I can press to reset it and it works fine for about 60 seconds.

Humbug!

a reply to: Flatcoat

I went by Kombi and 1972, not an expert on old VWs but I work for the company that developed the engine

This is the shim you need, if it's the 1600cc Typ 1.
www.coolairvw.co.uk...

If you need specs, just ask. One of the masters I work with in apprentice training is a VW/Porsche boxer buff and runs a website.

a reply to: TDDAgain

Thanks, I'll probably need a few pointers when I start the teardown.

a reply to: lordcomac

I don't touch many Honda ATVs...mainly CFMoto, but does the MIL light flash a code when it goes into limp mode?

originally posted by: Flatcoat
a reply to: lordcomac

I don't touch many Honda ATVs...mainly CFMoto, but does the MIL light flash a code when it goes into limp mode?

Yeah, I have a chart printed out and it's saying something about a sensor.

On the road all day today but if you're willing to help I've got notes

I have spent the better part of my life rebuilding transmissions. While i see many bashing these engineers i myself love these guys. They are the reason i can charge upwards of $150 an hour labor. If cars were still built like that 1957 Chevy Belaire people would fix them at home. These engineers put things together in a way where most will say nope, taking it to someone to do for me, and that someone is me. In short they keep me employed.

a reply to: UncleReamus
Engines and suspensions is my field of work.

What most complain about are not the engineers themselves but is rather two worlds colliding. It may look great on the 3D model and in the training shop, where everything is clean and the device never saw real life use. There, in the laboratory like condition, that two inch access space looks plenty.

In real world, with dirt, grease and schmoo in common, maybe even with some heat in the components, that two inch space turns out to be a major pain in the ass so you can only make 10° until you have to replace the tool, and only because of that special wrench that has tighter teeth, otherwise you could pack and go home because it's impossible.

And I really don't need to disassemble the head and intake piping just to get to the fuel pump that sit's in the hot V on a V6. It's insanity.

If you've done transmissions for the better part of your life, you know exactly why and about what we are complaining about. Sure you too had a moment where you wanted to throw the tool into the corner in anger because one of the theory heads did not think it through and made work hell for you, unnecessary.

I don't need overcomplicated stuff to keep me employed. An engine in the power spectrum my customers move is complicated and demanding enough, I don't need a jackass to design stuff in atrocious ways because they seem to have too much time on their hands, in return wasting my and others time that could be spend for a lot better causes. I've seen some pretty genius engineer moves though and will pull my imaginary hat for these. Just not if it's about making life worse for everyone out there, to save a few bucks in production.

I just have one thing to share.



a reply to: Flatcoat

a reply to: Dalamax

As much as I like hitting on (tuned) Honda (cars), the motorcycles are durable! A family member had two Honda, 2cyl two-stroke. Never broke down, I still have the motocross machine and fire it up a few times a year. I think I should adjust the valve timings though but it's reliable.