Unexpected Findings in “Little” Big Bang Experiment Leaves Physicists Baffled

a reply to: face23785

www.extremetech.com... light

originally posted by: sean
a reply to: face23785

www.extremetech.com... light

Yeah that's how I thought they did it.

They didn't actually measure its speed (as it says right in the opening paragraph.) They merely used the distances involved in the experiment to calculate a lower limit.

As far as I know, the effect is still thought by physicists to be instantaneous.

a reply to: Maxmars

Fascinating, and I offer you another good read, compression smashing of gold for your enjoyment.

www.llnl.gov...

I love this stuff.

originally posted by: NobodySpecial268

Isn't that exceding the speed of light? Relatively speaking?

incorrect...

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
a reply to: sarahvital

The particles do not lose mass… while they are accelerated. The definitely do after they collide!

everything that is accelerated gains mass, except photons...

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Maxmars

Fascinating, and I offer you another good read, compression smashing of gold for your enjoyment.

www.llnl.gov...

I love this stuff.

I loved that! Thanks for the link.

Man, you folks have taught me more about particle physics than that damn 102 course I took in college.... and all tuition free!

Thanks to everyone here... you are ATS.

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
a reply to: sarahvital

The particles do not lose mass… while they are accelerated. The definitely do after they collide!

Further...

When particles collide the energy released is greater than the sum of the particles mass, being mass and energy are the same if you were to recombine the energy that was shed and convert it back into mass the sum would be greater than what you started with.

Same with black hole mergers... sub atomic to the macro

a reply to: iamthevirus

They wonder where all the matter is coming from. o-O

originally posted by: sean
a reply to: iamthevirus

They wonder where all the matter is coming from. o-O

Energy is not created or destroyed, it is simply in different states... as water is to vapor and ice.

We are simply trying to observe and better understand the process and interactions of this living light.

originally posted by: iamthevirus
everything that is accelerated gains mass, except photons...

Not according to Albert Einstein, and he's the author of the theory of special relativity. Accelerated particles gain energy and momentum, but not mass, according to Einstein.

There are still textbooks talking about accelerated particles gaining mass, so it's understandable why people have this idea, but the number of textbooks saying that is dropping as more physicists realize it's not a correct concept.

Science Quiz #2: Is E=mc² right or wrong?


Rest mass versus relativistic mass

Einstein's equation E0=mc^2 became known in its famous but misleading form E=mc^2. One of the most unfortunate consequences is the concept that the mass of a relativistic body increases with its velocity. This velocity dependent mass is known as “relativistic mass.” Another consequence is the term “rest mass” and the corresponding symbol m0. These confusing concepts and notations prevail in such classic texts as the ones by Born and Feynman. Moreover, in these texts the dependence of mass on velocity is presented as an experimental fact predicted by relativity theory and proving its correctness.

To substantiate the formula m=E/c^2 some authors use the connection between momentum and velocity in Newtonian mechanics, p=mv, forgetting that this relation is valid only when v (is significantly less than) c and that it contradicts the basic equation m^2=(E/c^2)^2−(p/c)^2. Einstein's tolerance of E=mc^2 is related to the fact that he never used in his writings the basic equation of relativity theory. However, in 1948 he forcefully warned against the concept of mass increasing with velocity. Unfortunately this warning was ignored.

...

Mass in special relativity

The professors at the University of Nottingham in the video are trying to teach the concepts as recommended by Einstein, and for this I commend them. Not all students have been so fortunate and it appears you've been subject to some contrary teaching. There is some debate about this topic and some scientists intentionally teach their students something like what you said, against what Einstein recommended. Personally, I don't see why Einstein's advice should be ignored like this.

Here, Don Lincoln flatly says that even though we hear some physicists say accelerated particles gain mass, as you said, it's just not true, as Einstein himself also discussed:

Is relativistic mass real?

One of the oddest features of special relativity is the inability to go faster than the speed of light and this is absolutely true. The most common explanation is that the mass of an object increases with speed, but this particular explanation simply isn’t true. In this video, Fermilab’s Dr. Don Lincoln explains the truth behind this.

"Big Bang",... "little bang".

First? There was nothing, then it all exploded!
Bringing forth, life!

Good grief.

Their knowledge is so great, they, "collided the gold atoms slightly off-center so the... Impact would not be round".
Probably screwing up their own experiment and proving nothing, but to make more questions.

People actually buy this stuff?

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: iamthevirus
everything that is accelerated gains mass, except photons...

Not according to Albert Einstein, and he's the author of the theory of special relativity. Accelerated particles gain energy and momentum, but not mass, according to Einstein.

There are still textbooks talking about accelerated particles gaining mass, so it's understandable why people have this idea, but the number of textbooks saying that is dropping as more physicists realize it's not a correct concept.

In particle physics and SR mass and energy are equivalent.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: murphy22

science breaks down... a lot.

the problems stems from the anomaly... the number 0

nothing doesn't exist, nor is nothing at rest.

Light is alive, wrap your brain around that one...

-------

Every living thing out there and all the people, and all the living matter is just another aspect of the self... that's why you can relate to it. You feel empathy for the tree which is hanging half broken but you don't feel anything for the pothole in the pavement except inconvenienced.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: sean
a reply to: face23785

www.extremetech.com... light

Yeah that's how I thought they did it.

They didn't actually measure its speed (as it says right in the opening paragraph.) They merely used the distances involved in the experiment to calculate a lower limit.

As far as I know, the effect is still thought by physicists to be instantaneous.

Sorry wrong poster.

originally posted by: Maxmars

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Maxmars

Fascinating, and I offer you another good read, compression smashing of gold for your enjoyment.

www.llnl.gov...

I love this stuff.

I loved that! Thanks for the link.

Man, you folks have taught me more about particle physics than that damn 102 course I took in college.... and all tuition free!

Thanks to everyone here... you are ATS.

For sure, and what did you think about this paragraph?

Pressures exceeding 1 million atmospheres are capable of dramatically deforming atomic electronic clouds and alter how atoms are packed together. This leads to new chemical bonding and has revealed extraordinary behaviors such as helium rain, the transformation of sodium into a transparent metal, the emergence of superionic water ice and the transformation of hydrogen into a metallic fluid.

...transparent metal (star trek movie transparent aluminum or in this case gold? lol

a reply to: PiratesCut

Interesting...

What has always made my brain hurt is wondering where I was before I came into this world. In a split second, I was here and it's like time didn't start until I came into this world. No darkness, no nothing. No waiting time but no beginning either, just boom and here I am. It's too hard to describe what I'm trying to say. Thousands, millions, or billions of years passed by on this Earth but I skipped all of it in the blink of an eye. I still remember seeing light for the first time, it's unexplainable.

a reply to: namehere

Maybe there should be a speed that progress has to obey. There are faults/glitches in every technologically advanced machinery out there today. From small toys to gaming consoles to advanced electronics to cars to high powered PCs. Higher education, if that's what they call it, is slowly bringing us down and making us far too dependent on distorted findings we find as facts, and too dependent on technology. Rushed progress is dangerous.

originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: PiratesCut

Interesting...

What has always made my brain hurt is wondering where I was before I came into this world. In a split second, I was here and it's like time didn't start until I came into this world. No darkness, no nothing. No waiting time but no beginning either, just boom and here I am. It's too hard to describe what I'm trying to say. Thousands, millions, or billions of years passed by on this Earth but I skipped all of it in the blink of an eye. I still remember seeing light for the first time, it's unexplainable.

You weren't anywhere, you've always been right here... since the formation of the galaxy billions upon billions of years ago.

And you're not going anywhere either except back to the earth, your body/mass.

You (your energy) can never leave, you only change and transform.

All we are is dust in the wind dude...

originally posted by: iamthevirus
In particle physics and SR mass and energy are equivalent.

en.wikipedia.org...

Did you even read the link you posted? It says this:

"The formula defines the energy E of a particle in its rest frame as the product of mass (m) with the speed of light squared (c2). "

Rest frame. You said earlier that "everything that is accelerated gains mass, except photons..." which I tried to correct.

Saying mass and energy are equivalent in a rest frame is not the same thing as claiming that "everything that is accelerated gains mass". In fact the whole point of the thread I linked to is that people in general are mixing up the two concepts of what occurs in a rest frame versus what happens to something that is not at rest in that frame, particularly with abuse of the mass-energy equivalence that you linked to.

It also talks about how physicists tend to reserve the use of the term "mass" to mean specifically "rest mass" so the "mass" in that context does not increase relativistically.

"The speed of light is one in a system where length and time are measured in natural units and the relativistic mass and energy would be equal in value and dimension. As it is just another name for the energy, the use of the term relativistic mass is redundant and physicists generally reserve mass to refer to rest mass, or invariant mass, as opposed to relativistic mass."

Again Einstein said mass and energy are equivalent in a rest frame, but this does not mean he supported the idea of "relativistic mass" and he cautioned against it, saying the only mass we should talk about is rest mass.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

Again Einstein said mass and energy are equivalent in a rest frame, but this does not mean he supported the idea of "relativistic mass" and he cautioned against it, saying the only mass we should talk about is rest mass.

So you're speaking in the context of an observers point of view...

But we're talking about particle physics and special relativity here (inertial mass)

"The main difference between inertial mass and rest mass is that rest mass doesn’t change with the velocity of the particle with respect to the observer whereas inertial mass increases with the relative velocity of the particle with respect to the observer"

pediaa.com...

Watch Brian Greene's refresher course to discover why both opinions are equally valid.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

There's two different points of view here, you're either the particle itself that is being accelerated or you are the person sitting in the control room accelerating the particle.

We know that mass increases because of the enormous amount of energy released from splitting atoms.

This energy/mass increase comes from somewhere... E=m

Mass in Special Relativity