Poland Missile Strike May Have Come From Ukraine Self-Defense: US Officials

Interesting how everyone said it was a Russian ground to ground missile until Biden said it was a Ukrainian ground to air missile, one which happens to have an auto-abort feature incase it misses like it supposedly did, so thay you know, it don't hit another country..

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Russia just isn't a great power anymore, that's the problem. How long do you want us to pretend out of politeness?

Really? Last time I checked Russia is the biggest country on planet Earth by a mile............... Or few For sure without Ukraine it's a regional power. If it takes Ukraine then it becomes a superpower again. Guess we'll have to wait it out and see if Russia or America win this one

I think it’s pretty clear that two poor slobs in Poland were blown up and died.

US and Poland were laughing uncontrollably at russia's pathetic propaganda efforts

I guess It was worth it for the chuckles.

a reply to: YellowBlueSky22

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Right, so you agree with me? Russia has not been a great power for 30 years.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Yeah, well, Greenland has a large area, too. Size matters only when other factors weigh in.

Cheers

a reply to: Cutepants

I didn't say that Cutie. Russia has power projection around this planet and has been regaining influence in many places. Doing an honest job too in saving the Christian peoples of the Middle East from a western sponsored Islamic Jihad.

For sure Russia lost a lot of muscle post 1991 yet the potential as the largest nation on planet Earth is still there, with all the resources this offers. Time will tell what happens and right now it's anybody's guess how things will turn out, yet whatever resources are spent against the Russian campaign the one thing that can't be done is to separate Russia from its near abroad and at some point in time, no idea when, yet at some point in time Russia will control it again. It's called geography and that's one thing the West can't change

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

The way western business descended on Russia post 1991 and their oligarchy stripped it of it's resources only to be transferred to London with the criminal British government's approval, erm.................... I think they consider Russia a worth while bet maybe more so than Greenland

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

I think some of that perception is informed by Russian projections of themselves being something more than they are. They're a middleweight power sitting on parts of Europe and Asia, but their outward expression is poisoned by a 19th century mentality as regards relations with other countries. If their leadership could enter the 21st century, they could have an important role to play in the near future. As the situation is, that isn't in the cards.

Cheers

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

You just told me you think Russia becomes a superpower if it takes Ukraine again. That's why I had to assume we agree. But it's fine to change your mind.

Very limited power projection, honestly. NATO has pushed them back with no real effort. And Ukraine is right next to Russia, not other side of the world.

It's called geography and that's one thing the West can't change

You're saying they have some sort of geographical advantage?

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

The way western business descended on Russia post 1991 and their oligarchy stripped it of it's resources only to be transferred to London with the criminal British government's approval,.....

Quite true.
But for that to be possible it required the active involvement of the Russian government, first of Boris Yeltsin and then his hand picked and personally groomed successor.....you guessed it - Vladimir Putin.
Putin has been the single biggest enabler of the Oligarchs and their nefarious dealings.

a reply to: Maxmars

First thing I that crossed my mind when I heard about this, is that it was probably Ukraine and being blamed on Russia. Crazy that people believe whatever the media tells them, especially when it involves a foreign war that none of us are there to see.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

The way western business descended on Russia post 1991 and their oligarchy stripped it of it's resources only to be transferred to London with the criminal British government's approval,.....

Quite true.
But for that to be possible it required the active involvement of the Russian government, first of Boris Yeltsin and then his hand picked and personally groomed successor.....you guessed it - Vladimir Putin.
Putin has been the single biggest enabler of the Oligarchs and their nefarious dealings.

100% spot on FB and there was a program on TV recently about Russia. Lots of these oligarchs came from the underworld of St Petersburg and were forced into their trade by discrimination in the Soviet Union. Putin also from St Petersburg, wish I could remember the documentary it was pretty fascinating and like you say include Vlad as the chief enabler. Fascinating stuff

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

You just told me you think Russia becomes a superpower if it takes Ukraine again. That's why I had to assume we agree. But it's fine to change your mind.

Very limited power projection, honestly. NATO has pushed them back with no real effort. And Ukraine is right next to Russia, not other side of the world.

You're saying they have some sort of geographical advantage?

Russia has excellent power projection. Take Syria as an example. Saved the day. Take Kazachstan this January, Putin saved the nation by sending in a CSTO military force. They don't need massive CSG's as Russia doesn't invade and bomb the hell out of foreigners on the other side of the globe like the West does. It has ample resources and doesn't need to take control of foreign nations to thieve their assets. NATO (USA in reality, the rest are joke militaries in comparison) is fighting Russia in Ukraine and yes the Yanks have pushed back Russia from Kherson and Kharhov using their intelligence and massive weaponry deposited for use use by their Ukrainian gun fodder. Russia at the same time still controls a very large piece of land in what was Ukraine and as winter arrives a possible stalemate will develop. Plenty of time to straighten things out for a Spring offensive for both the Yanks and Russians. Now Xi has got his third term guaranteed he can feed tech through the North Korean via Iran back door and aid his all in Russia. Russia has every chance to take land all the way to Odessa, the aim according to Sergei Markov on British TV last Christmas. In addition to the military offensive Russia can carry on destroying western economies. Believe me we are really suffering here in the UK as a direct result of this Special Operation, our economy is in free fall and people are literally being forced to choose whether they eat or heat their homes. Crazy times, let's just pray this doesn't get ground out for years like so many other frozen conflicts

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

I think some of that perception is informed by Russian projections of themselves being something more than they are. They're a middleweight power sitting on parts of Europe and Asia, but their outward expression is poisoned by a 19th century mentality as regards relations with other countries.

Yes that is pretty much spot on. Add to that Russia with it's Soviet Union really did achieve so much in the last century. Be it in space, military, science, bringing a people out of serfdom at the start of the century to a relative affluence by the 1970's and conquering space in every field bar putting a man on the moon. Quite a century! Maybe when the generation that lived through the final days of the Soviet Union dies off we will see a new Russia, yet there's plenty still alive like Putin that lived through the above wonder years and want their place in the sun back

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

You just told me you think Russia becomes a superpower if it takes Ukraine again. That's why I had to assume we agree. But it's fine to change your mind.

Very limited power projection, honestly. NATO has pushed them back with no real effort. And Ukraine is right next to Russia, not other side of the world.

You're saying they have some sort of geographical advantage?

Russia has excellent power projection. Take Syria as an example. Saved the day. Take Kazachstan this January, Putin saved the nation by sending in a CSTO military force. They don't need massive CSG's as Russia doesn't invade and bomb the hell out of foreigners on the other side of the globe like the West does.

That's exactly what I'm telling you. Kicking out some ISIS guys with technicals or suppressing Kazak protesters is one thing, that's what they're good at. But fighting a total war is different. Again it seems we are in agreement though.

NATO (USA in reality, the rest are joke militaries in comparison)

Compared to USA, yes, but not compared to Russia.

But what were you telling about geography?

a reply to: Cutepants

You're quoting the wrong way round and this just adds to the confusion yes see where you are going there and it all comes full circle to a general agreement on most of this

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Well you did the same lol. I guess the site is acting up or something.

Orbhunter has a point about the geopolitical aspect. Countries that are next to Russia have to be on top of the situation. But power projection has many dimensions, and the Russian state needs to learn how to apply soft power. They would get a lot further with their goals if they did so.

But that works both ways. Putin's war in Ukraine has made countries like Kazakhstan wary and stirred up Muslim peoples in various "federal subjects" of Russia (because the conscription has placed an unfair burden on non-Russian peoples in Russia).

Cheers

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

The point I hoped to make is that NATO and EU are about as close to Ukraine as Russia is, even though the USA is not. If were talking about Russia having an advantage because they're close or because they want it more because it's their perimeter.

a reply to: Cutepants

Apologies.

That post of mine wasn't really a worthy response.

I have an issue (not with you) because sadly, when both sides of the argument hover around constructed narratives and you fail to respect either narrative you find yourself alternately challenged and praised without any appreciation for the fact.

You see I have been trying to remind people that this isn't a game measured in terms of who can say better words. And we will never be appraised of actual motives and intentions. When we speak of Russia, we do so as a "meme"; when we speak of Ukraine - it is also as a meme.

Meanwhile the "players" aren't even in the room. I irritates me that I have to "pick a narrative." when neither is anywhere near to a comprehensive factual rendering of reality. I shouldn't have taken that out on you (sorry about that- I have been distracted.)

Insofar as Ukraine and Russia.... 95% of those people don't know each other. And yet they are being urged with intense eagerness to slaughter (by us no less) ... meanwhile the perennial political tools of "civilization" are purposefully applied to force us to "pick" a narrative while we are clearly being "played" for effect. Neither narrative is worthy.

Which might be true... that Putin singlehandedly rallied the force of a nation to satisfy his "personality malfunction," or that yet another organized criminal construct in Ukraine is being supported by the "hidden hand" of Global corruption? You know... it could be both - it might be neither... in either case I won't cheer for their governments - either of them.

Ukraine, beset with deteriorating quality of life commonly experienced when "others" establish their form of government, called out to the ether for relief - and Russia responded? It is unlikely to be that simple. Russia, yearning for a restoration of its Soviet era standing decided to "get breathing room" from the global threat of NATO influence made a preemptive thrust into its old haunts? Doubtful at best. The Ukrainian people aren't a "threat" to the people of Russia.

This is about cabals of power, plans for control, and opportunities for exploitation in currency. It is not about anything that can justify a child having his or her limbs blown off, or the destruction of their homes and futures. It is not about some old fool and his ego. And most importantly, it is not about justice or freedom or democracy.

Well, I have come to the point of being unable to address this issue without offending everyone. So, in closing I will simply stand on a simplistic position: I know all the horrors of what is happening is being reduced to a tool to create diversion from the truth. And while everyone is spitting words to denigrate others and define the past in exclusively their own terms - they exclude the possibility that they are being misled and redirected from actually stopping this destructive conflict. Cheering and booing all the way.