"Cremation of Care" ritual at Bohemian Grove

Originally posted by nukunuku
Besides if they were budhists i wouldnt be worried at all.

Ok, so if the black robes and owl means that they are satanists, then they must also be buddhists



and this means that they are a native american historical society

ahahaha please dont insult my intelligence.....thats like what, photos of the 1960s hippie communion? And is that Bush seniors tipi?

At best is the released propaganda which wass released only after AJ shot the video

So now, without even looking to see when the photos are from, you state that they must be propaganda and are irrelevant?

The photos are from before the '60s. They've been in the collection at Berkely for quite some time.

They're photos of the actual camp. They're as much 'propaganda' as the alex jones video. Furthermore, even if we pretend that they've been released to counter jones, they are still photos taken long before jones existed. They had a buddhist statue, and apparently a buddhist ceremony. Does that mean that the members in those years were buddhists? Doesn't that make it a buddhist group? Certainly as much as the owl statue makes them Athena Worshippers or satan worshippers.

any explanation on why they had a budha in the camp, did they do cremation of care in front of the budha???? blasphemy.

I mean the photo could be from anywhere and anytime, but the AJ video was admitted by the bohemian club.

Originally posted by nukunuku
I mean the photo could be from anywhere and anytime, but the AJ video was admitted by the bohemian club.

Can you prove this? I'd like to know if it is true or not.

i am not trying to prove anything, look it up if you will

Nukunuku

It's not worth arguing with these guys anymore. It's easy to take the side that they're taking because they know there's no chance that you'll ever be able to prove what you say and believe. Straying from the herd is their biggest insecurity.

Peace

I thought God devoted religions believed Buddha to represent the actual upcoming anti-christ?

This is why Budha is featured at BG

THE ANTI-CHRIST



As a part of the plan is the uprising of a new Antichrist. The rumor is spread that he already is here. His name is the Maitreya Buddha and has been given publicity since the 70's. He is supposed to be the one written about in the Bible and will officially come as a "man of peace", but will show to be a false Messiah, and when he has convinced the peoples of different religions around the world that he is the one they have been waiting for, he will turn into be an oppressive dictator - the Antichrist in the Bible. He has been seen together in public with among others the former President of the United States, George Bush Sr. So, are the predictions from the Bible correct? Well, they might be. Personally, I am not convinced that Maitreya is the Antichrist. (Please click here to read more about Maitreya. Be sure to follow all the links ...!)

Considering all the idol worshiping, having Buddha statues inside boheiman grove doesn't surprise me one little bit!

Careful Syntaxer, they'll ask you for proof of this Antichrist you speak of because, afterall, he was given publicity in the '70's. Just tell them the Antichrist is Fred Grandy, better known as Gopher from the Love Boat.

Peace

[edit on 18-4-2005 by Dr Love]

My intentions are not to offend ATS freemasons or masonry in general, or even the disinformation agents who represent your secret society. I'm simply cutting 'n pasting information involving boheiman grove > illuminati > freemasons and how everything ties together.

I actually optained this url from another ATS post..

Many Freemasons on the lower grades are actually very pleased to being members. It is a tight "belonging-feeling" and they will learn a few secrets of this universe, which are not taught in school, and they are often enthusiastic and fascinated. One Freemason said: "Beside my wife, Freemasonry is the most important thing in my life ..." His wife, by the way, must never know anything about what her husband is doing within the society, as it is supposed to be kept secret, and women most often are not allowed into the societies (however, there ARE a few societies especially for women, like the Freemasonic "Eastern Star"). One can then speculate in how come that women are treated as being of lesser value in the society than men, with lower wages for the same job etc. It's a man's world - it's the world of the man dominated Secret Societies.

With the purpose to create a positive front, the Brotherhood is very eager to recruit good people (celebrities and people in positions where they are admired by the population in general are extremely valuable to recruit) to speak good of the cult and defend it when necessary. And the less those people know about the real agenda, the more truthful this person will sound in his defense of the organization. This also goes for religious cults of any sort, as they too are connected to the network of secret societies in one way or the other.

With time, some of the members (but far from everyone) will enter higher and higher grades within the secret society, until they reach the upper, significant levels. But up there, a very careful selection takes place. Before entering the upper grades in the cult, a Brother of a higher level asks the apprentice to spit on the Christian cross. If the person refuses due to his Christian belief, the higher initiated Brother tells him he did the right thing and has showed his loyalty to his religion. But that person will never be admitted into the highest grades. He will always be met with excuses from the council why he can't continue. On the other hand, if the person does spit on the cross, he is showing his loyalty to the Brotherhood instead, and is considered trustworthy enough to be admitted to continue up the grade chart. He will now have access to the "secret libraries", where the wisdom from long gone ages are gathered, and he is allowed to take part of it and the magic rituals. He will be more and more involved in Black Magic/Satanism and prepared for the "Big secrets", which among others are the following

www.thewatcherfiles.com...

Apparently the Opis dei and/or the Catholic church are anti-Masonic knowing the hidden agenda of the illuminati using freemasons as recruiting.

If the only argument you have to offer is to "provide me with proof" the same could be said regarding JFK's assassination by a miraculous bullet!.. If you believe Oswald was behind it, you should willingly accept the title of trollsheep!

[edit on 18-4-2005 by syntaxer]

Originally posted by Dr Love
Nukunuku

It's not worth arguing with these guys anymore. It's easy to take the side that they're taking because they know there's no chance that you'll ever be able to prove what you say and believe. Straying from the herd is their biggest insecurity.

He stated it as a fact, plain and simple. I would like to confirm this. How can he feel so comfortable in saying it's a fact, that they have admitted the video is real, if he has no evidence? he can't even tell me where to look. That doesn't seem very assuring, and tells me that he is taking someone's word for it.

My problem isn't about going against the grain. I'm a Freemason, I'm as far against the grain as it gets. My problem is believing things by just taking someone's word for it... that is not good enough for me. I will not believe something until I see conclusive proof. Until then, it is just an assumption.

I would like to think that on a forum where everyone claims to "Deny Ignorance", conclusive evidence would be taken more seriously.


[edit on 18-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

With major apologies all round for going off topic, I have to respond to a post by syntaxer, who has reposted an earlier item from elsewhere in ATS which is grossly incorrect.

Many Freemasons on the lower grades are actually very pleased to being members... some of the members (but far from everyone) will enter higher and higher grades within the secret society, until they reach the upper, significant levels. But up there, a very careful selection takes place.

Before entering the upper grades in the cult, a Brother of a higher level asks the apprentice to spit on the Christian cross. If the person refuses due to his Christian belief, the higher initiated Brother tells him he did the right thing and has showed his loyalty to his religion. But that person will never be admitted into the highest grades. He will always be met with excuses from the council why he can't continue. On the other hand, if the person does spit on the cross, he is showing his loyalty to the Brotherhood instead, and is considered trustworthy enough to be admitted to continue up the grade chart. He will now have access to the "secret libraries", where the wisdom from long gone ages are gathered, and he is allowed to take part of it and the magic rituals. He will be more and more involved in Black Magic/Satanism and prepared for the "Big secrets", which among others are the following

What nonsense. Whoever originally posted this has no idea whatsoever about how freemasonry works, its aims and aspirations, and the type of people who join. And syntaxer - i'm afraid you're just spreading ignorance with this.

There are no higher levels in freemasonry - the highest degree is the 3rd. There are higher numbered degrees available in Additional Orders which freemasons can join if they want. The Scottish Rite (which the quote purports to describe) is very popular in the US although perhaps less so elsewhere.

All freemasons must have their own religion when they join the fraternity, and freemasonry encourages us to maintain that faith. In the US and UK this faith is predominately christian, and in fact many church leaders over the years have been keen freemasons. So it makes absolutely no sense at all for, latterly in a masons career, a freemason to suddenly become involved in black magic & satanism. This is just an out and out lie and cannot be substantiated in any way. Are you getting confused between freemasonry and other imitative organisations that have nothing to do with it?

However, I look forward to a post from Senrak* who is a 32º Scottish Rite freemason, once he can pull himself away from the Human Sacrifice to Satan he is currently engaged in

My intentions are not to offend ATS freemasons or masonry in general, or even the disinformation agents who represent your secret society.

I'm not sure this is true either actually. Posting falsehoods and perpetuating hackneyed old myths about freemasonry isn't making any friends.

* Sorry Senrak - I know I keep wheeling you out to repeat yourself endlessly about the Scottish Rite. Maybe one day something you say might stick.

Originally posted by sebatwerk

So why are you concerned just because they are supposedly powerful individuals? What makes you assume that whatever they are doing in their private time will affect their policy? Who's to say that this has been going on forever and never had an effect on public policy of politicians and bankers.

They are not supposedly powerful they ARE powerfull (and wealthy). I'm in the media business for 11 years now and I know something about how the deals are made. I make this deals on a daily bases. Most of this deals are made in non-office enviroment like restaurants, bars, picnics, nightclubs or places like Bohemian Groove. When we come to an agreement we close this deal in the office (rutine). We also use offices to conduct business with outsiders (customers) but the real and big deals are made in private. I think you are some kind of CEO and I bet you know what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by yanchek
They are not supposedly powerful they ARE powerfull (and wealthy). I'm in the media business for 11 years now and I know something about how the deals are made. I make this deals on a daily bases. Most of this deals are made in non-office enviroment like restaurants, bars, picnics, nightclubs or places like Bohemian Groove. When we come to an agreement we close this deal in the office (rutine). We also use offices to conduct business with outsiders (customers) but the real and big deals are made in private. I think you are some kind of CEO and I bet you know what I'm talking about.

While what you say is true, we still have no evidence that that is what is going on there. So we can assume all we want, it's not going to make that a fact. That's all I'm trying to say. In a forum where we claim to Deny Ignorance, we should not make a habit of basing beliefs on assumptions.

P.S. I am a software engineer, but I have been involved in dealmaking before and would have to say that, all in all, more deals are made on golf courses than anywhere else

I'm glad we agree on something. The evidence on conspiracys are very hard to find, but people make mistakes and leave behind clues and small pieces of the very big puzzles. I like to believe that deep down, every member of this blog think something is wrong about Bohemian Groove. I also understand your hunger for evidence and passionate demands from us to prove our claims. You're giving us extra motivation and maybe in the future we will meet somewhere in the middle.
But IMO lack of evidence shouldn't be a sole reason to disqualify some of our statements. When logical and racional method of aproach doesn't work we must sometime use illogical and irracional way. (I think Sherlock Holmes said that)
I guess I'm just a sucker for conspiracy.

PS. Damn, I know I forgot something. I'm taking golf classes ASAP.

[edit on 21-4-2005 by yanchek]

[edit on 21-4-2005 by yanchek]

Originally posted by yanchek
I'm glad we agree on something. The evidence on conspiracys are very hard to find, but people make mistakes and leave behind clues and small pieces of the very big puzzles. I like to believe that deep down, every member of this blog think something is wrong about Bohemian Groove. I also understand your hunger for evidence and passionate demands from us to prove our claims. You're giving us extra motivation and maybe in the future we will meet somewhere in the middle.
But IMO lack of evidence shouldn't be a sole reason to disqualify some of our statements. When logical and racional method of aproach doesn't work we must sometime use illogical and irracional way. (I think Sherlock Holmes said that)
I guess I'm just a sucker for conspiracy.

I think that deep down, since we are all rational beings, we all feel the same way, we just communicate our thoughts differently. It's true that we should not disqualify something just because there is no evidence. That's why they are theories. But when someone begins posting theory as if it were a fact, then we have a problem. Fact must always be supported by evidence, especially when dealing with serious allegations as we usually see here on ATS.

Aside from that, I DO believe that SOME KIND of evidence is always left behind. Like we learn on the CSI tv show, EVERY criminal leaves a trace. Conspiracies as large as the ones discussed on this forum would be theoretically IMPOSSIBLE to completely hide and to cover every trail. Some kind of evidence HAS to remain, no matter how many times those involved try to cover their tracks.. What's more, with so many people supposedly involved, there's no way that everyone could be THAT GOOD at concealing any kind of involvement.

All I DO know is that sometimes people can force themselves to see things that are not really there. It's like staring at the clouds, and making out all kinds of shapes.

Just saying.

Originally posted by Driver

Moloch or Molech is the deity to which the 45ft stone owl beside the lake at Bohemian Grove is symbolic of . Moloch is very old and it has been discovered that the people of Babylon and before it used to burn their children in the belly of an effigy symbolic of Moloch to forgive them of their sins they have done. Moloch is mentioned countless times in the Bible, New Testement and other biblical texts, also.

Molech was the sun god of the ammonites and has been compared to Ba’al. Both Molech and Ba’al were sun/fertility gods but where ‘Ba’al’ is usually benign ‘Molech’ seems to be entirely malicious. It is true that in times of hardship the ammonites sacrificed children to appease the gods but it is not clear whether Molech refers to a god or to the method of sacrifice.

Eitherway, the sacrifice was preformed, so far as I can tell, in this fashion. A gigantic hollow bronze statue with a bull’s head and a man’s body and had a furnace lit within it. Children were placed on the hands of the statue which were then lifted, by an ingenious contrivance, to the mouth where the children were killed by the flames. This gave the impression that the effigy was eating the children.

If this description is accurate, it dosn't really compare with the current Bohemian Grove pageant. Here an effigy representing ‘dull care’ is set on a raft, floated out on the river and the burned in front of a stone owl.

This leaves me with two questions. 1) What form did the Bohemian Grove pageant originally take? It is likely to have evolved from a simpler ceremony in which ‘care’ was temporarily banished.

2) How did the transformation from the Canaanite bronze statue with a man’s body and a bull’s head become a giant stone owl? So far as i know owls do not figure as symbols of Ba'al' now if it were a great stone bull .... or somethig similar

I have no doubt this ritual is to forgive or to take away the guilt of the many people that are running this agenda on a daily basis ....

I wouldn’t say 'guilt' exactly but yes that is what the ritual is for, to symbolically banish 'care'. These people feel that they have the cares of the world on their shoulders so to enjoy themselves they must banish care from the camp.

... becuase many are doing it against their wish in fear of their family, assasination or a scandal against them since to get into these high positions, you have to go through alot of really odd stuff like having anal sex with a man inside a coffin, ect. This is done to ensure you never speak up. Sex is the ultimate control and thats why so many secret societies require the initiate to do it.

What has this got to do with Ba'al? The worship of Ba'al was a propitiatory fertility religion and the Molech was only preformed during times of extreme hardship, when the corps had failed. Pagan fertility religions may occasionally be salacious and involve sexual acts but i think not in the sense that you have intimated.



www.pantheon.org...




[edit on 22-4-2005 by pignut]

Originally posted by sebatwerk
All I DO know is that sometimes people can force themselves to see things that are not really there. It's like staring at the clouds, and making out all kinds of shapes.

I agree. Sometimes cigar is just a cigar.

But it's funny when you mentioned clouds in the sky. People see all sort of shapes and make different conclusions. There is an interesting myth about emperor of Byzantia Constantin the Great. Before the battle with some roman rebels in 312 a.d. he looked at the sky, saw the cross and the words "in this sign you shall be victorious". He immediately put golden cross on his square shaped red war banner, wage a battle and won. Since then this war banner became national flag of Byzantine Empire (when crests didn't even exist) and its known as Flag of Constantin.

He established Christianism as the official religion of the Empire and founded Constantinople.

The Bohemian Grove "club" has a published book of its members. I am not sure what that picture of "Buddhists" does to take away from the sinister atmosphere of the Bohemian Grove ritual caught by Alex Jones. In terms of credibility, I give Alex yards more than a group of unknowns on some internet forum. I have checked up, for the past 4 months, on Alex's claims that he makes on his radio show and he is bang on. For example, the population reduction mandate. I researched the stats and forecasts from the WHO and he is relaying accurate info. And while he finds disturbing quotes from people in the public eye, I find others equally so.

I continue to listen because he is doing what I do when I have the time: I have RSS feeds that I scan and, among the many publications fed (both big and independent), I cross reference them and check the information - usually by analysing statistics. Then a conclusion is formed which are consistent with Jones'. I highly doubt he is a disinformation agent or a propaganda artist. Sometimes he actually annoys me because I feel he is over the top anxious at times.

Article on the Grove and its history (when it hit mainstream media 1980's):
www.fair.org...

Collection of photos and a pic of the annal of the Grove:

www.infowars.com...

And perhaps it takes the "Conspiracy abound" world view to be suspicous of this - I am not sure - but my eyebrow is at least raised on this one. As for world views (Masonary aside), I am cynical in relation to other people and believe that maybe a small handful of people care about my life - the rest want me for a buck. We are slaves, nothing more. Anybody that thinks otherwise is either lying or incredibly lucky. In this way, I feel existent in a Hobbsian State of nature, save for the fur coats and stone weapons.

[edit on 22-4-2005 by Guy Kawasaki]

What kind of fraud is this?
"The Bohemian Grove Is an Offshoot of Skull and Bones -- New, Exclusive Photos "

And the photos are neither new nor exclusive. They are from a book that the BC publishes

This image from Page 131 shows the ancient Caananite occult ritual, the "Cremation of Care, being carried out by world leaders in 1990.

How can you say jones has any credibility? This is not a cannanite ritual.

The talks are given no less than a dozen yards from the stone idol where "mock" human sacrifices take place.

Is jones unaware of what 'mock' means? Why the quotes?

Helmut Schmidt, in his own autobiography, "Men and Powers, a Political Retrospective, says that he is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission and the Bilberberg group. He also says that he has been an active participant in bringing in world government.

What the heck is this guy talking about?

CFR membership

Membership is restricted to U.S. citizens (native-born or naturalized) and permanent residents who have applied to become citizens. If foreign-born, a candidate must submit a statement that he or she has been naturalized or is a permanent resident who has made formal application for citizenship.

Is Schmidt a US citizen? I suspect not.

He talks about secret groves in Germany where they do druidic rituals, but indicates that Bohemian Grove is his favorite place to participate in these rituals.

Considering how inaccurate some of what he's reported so far, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a massive distortion also.