Jesus is the Angel of the Lord

Some people ask if Jesus is in the Old Testament and if He's God and the answer is yes and yes.

In the Old Testament, Jesus is called the Angel of the Lord. Jesus is the Word and Image of God and He speaks the direct thoughts of God. We're made in His Image and Likeness so we do the same thing. Our thoughts can only be known through our image and our voice.

So the Word speaks the thoughts of God. This is also true when it comes to the Angel of the Lord. Let's start with Genesis 16. The Angel of the Lord appeared to Hagar.

6 But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thine hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face.

7 And the angel of the Lord found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.

8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.

9 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.

10 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.

11 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction.

12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

13 And she called the name of the Lord that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?

Listen to the way the Angel of the Lord speaks. He says I will multiply thy seed. He tells Hagar to call the child Ismael. He's called the Angel of Yahweh and He's called Yahweh.

Verse 13 says Yahweh that spoke to her. She also calls the Angel of the Lord God. So He's both the Angel of Yahweh and He's called Yahweh just like in John 1, Jesus is the Word that's with God but He's also God. How can the Word be with God and God at the same time? It's because the Word became Flesh and The Father, Word and Holy Spirit is the Godhead.

Here's Genesis 22. The Angel of the Lord called out to Abraham from Heaven.

15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,

16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:

17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Here, the Angel of the Lord said BY MYSELF I HAVE SWORN. He also says in thy seed shall all nations of the earth be blessed because you have obeyed MY VOICE.

The Angel of the Lord speaks the direct thoughts of God. He's the Word of God. Jesus is the image of the invisible God and the Angel of the Lord is also the image of God. Let's look at Exodus 3:

1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb.

2 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

So here, the Angel of the Lord appeared to Moses in the burning bush. Now let's look at what Moses called this image that appeared to him:

16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:

Moses called the appearence of the Angel of the Lord the God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob!

So Jesus is the Word and image of God and the Angel of the Lord is the Word and the image of God. Let's look at Judges 13. In chapter 13, the Angel of the Lord appeared to Manoah and his wife which were Samson's parents. Manoah asked the Angel of the Lord His name:

15 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, I pray thee, let us detain thee, until we shall have made ready a kid for thee.

16 And the angel of the Lord said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the Lord. For Manoah knew not that he was an angel of the Lord.

17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?

18 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?

When the Angel of the Lord left they were scared because they had seen God. They called the Angel of the Lord God just like Hagar and Moses.

21 But the angel of the Lord did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the Lord.

22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.

What's very profound here is Manoah calls the Angel of the Lord God but he also recognizes that He has a distinct name. Think about this:

17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?

18 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?

Now, who else has a secret name?

Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

So Jesus is the Word of God and the Angel of the Lord is the Word of God.

Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the Angel is the image of God and appeared to Moses in the burning bush.

Jesus has a name that no man knew but He Himself and the Angel of the Lord has a secret name.

The Angel of the Lord is the Word of God that became flesh and walked the earth as Jesus Christ. AMEN!

Agreed. I can say this part makes little sense to me because of Jehovah God's promise to Abram. (side note a recent article states Gods name is Yahovah, but I digress) Abram, we sang something like " Father Abraham, WE are one of you and I am too" as a child in my Church. Notice how Moses leads them back to the land promised Abrham's people in the end. Their promise was fulfilled several times.

a reply to: neoholographic

Absolutely!

John 5:37-47
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

41 I receive not honour from men.

42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

originally posted by: Justoneman
Agreed. I can say this part makes little sense to me because of Jehovah God's promise to Abram. (side note a recent article states Gods name is Yahovah, but I digress) Abram, we sang something like " Father Abraham, WE are one of you and I am too" as a child in my Church. Notice how Moses leads them back to the land promised Abrham's people in the end. Their promise was fulfilled several times.

Topic for another thread… but there are 10 names of God in the Hebrew tradition. The one you mentioned stems from one of them: Yod, Heh, Vav, Heh. The Chaldean flame alphabet, or Ancient Hebrew Block alphabet can be expressed a number of ways vocally. That’s why new variations crop up, it’s actual pronunciation being passed verbally. It’s meaning is what is important: “He who is, was and shall be.

OP- I completely concur with the premise of your thread, thank you.

a reply to: neoholographic

It feels really wrong to play "Devil's Advocate" on a thread about Jesus.

I wanted to say someone could pick out a character from the Old Testament and claim they are them, the two witnesses in Revelation is a good future example that may happen someday. The thing about the New Testament is, we honestly don't know how much of it has been edited, how much of it was basically made up and added in throughout history to further agendas. No doubt he was real and did some real things, but were they to the level that is described and did he do all of the things described, say all of the things written exactly to detail.

Someone can truly believe they are reincarnated from someone famous as well for example.

Jesus also denied being God himself and said he was the son of God. It's weird how he was the absolute end of miraculous things happening, prophets of that area that performed supernatural feats, except maybe Muhammad if you believe those stories.

Muhammad was a military leader too though, so the stories of him flying to heaven and back don't really add up. It sounds more like a dream that he had, then told people about, and they took as fact to cement his supernatural stature.

a reply to: neoholographic

Interesting, angel is literally a messenger so it shouldn’t be a surprise that Jesus also came as a messenger of the Lord and was identified as God when He delivered a message
Never realised or considered that as literal but fits perfectly
Bit like Melchizedek and His reign as king over pre Jerusalem in Genesis

a reply to: neoholographic


Some in the religious community believe that Donald trump was anointed by GOD. Where does that put the expresident in the pantheon of spiritual beings? You seem to be an expert in such matters!


religionnews.com...

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: neoholographic


Some in the religious community believe that Donald trump was anointed by GOD. Where does that put the expresident in the pantheon of spiritual beings? You seem to be an expert in such matters!


religionnews.com...

I am sure some people think Biden has been anointed, maybe even Putin, Kamala or even the pope himself
Some believe the bible, I have seen toast with a possible image of Jesus some claim anointed by God
You can use common sense and dismiss what seems a bit silly if you like

a reply to: neoholographic

The immortal part of us is in this image, not the human body.

a reply to: neoholographic
Nice read 👍THE FATHER, SON, HOLY GHOST and YOU are all quantum entangled spiritually.

If you write a little logic program in something like prolog.

"man talks"
"jesus talks"

Then ask of the program if jesus is a man?
It will respond TRUE.

If you also add to its database Numbers 23:19 :

"God is not a man"

Then ask of the program if Jesus is God.
The program will respond FALSE.

Just a simple program can comprehend the simple unadulterated truth. So what is happening in your mind. Obviously your mind is not interesting in truth but trying to manipulate facts to fit a mental paradigm. Jesus was not the distinct form of God. Neither according to Rabbi's did he attain the attributes of the Jewish messiah.

No doubt there is wisdom in Jesus words. There is also a very strong spiritual entity existing on earth that calls himself Jesus (has visited me). But as powerful as he may be, Jesus be Jesus and God be God.

a reply to: Raggedyman

You can use common sense and dismiss what seems a bit silly if you like

If you dismiss Romans 13:1 then scripture is a smorgasbord in which ....

“But we also can easily show many passages from them that He who made the world alone is God, and that there is none other besides Him But if any one shall wish to speak otherwise, he also shall be able to produce proofs from them at his pleasure. For the Scriptures say all manner of things, that no one of those who inquire ungratefully may find the truth, but simply what he wishes to find, the truth being reserved for the grateful now gratitude is to preserve our love to Him who is the cause of our being.” (Clementine Homilies, 3.9-10)

Rules of Quantum probabilities make both true is what we will learn. I think we know this now, but it hasn't sunk in to the psyche of those who claim "to be Science" yet. I who am a Christian of a Methodist "love the sinner" variety, and am also a Scientist, see a conundrum. I see my destiny is to be spent trying to wade thru the untruths to find the truth that is to be hid by those lies and untruths. The intent of the dark side as such was to keep us off track and control all of us collectively without our consent.

originally posted by: glend
If you write a little logic program in something like prolog.

"man talks"
"jesus talks"

Then ask of the program if jesus is a man?
It will respond TRUE.

If you also add to its database Numbers 23:19 :

"God is not a man"

Then ask of the program if Jesus is God.
The program will respond FALSE.

Just a simple program can comprehend the simple unadulterated truth. So what is happening in your mind. Obviously your mind is not interesting in truth but trying to manipulate facts to fit a mental paradigm. Jesus was not the distinct form of God. Neither according to Rabbi's did he attain the attributes of the Jewish messiah.

No doubt there is wisdom in Jesus words. There is also a very strong spiritual entity existing on earth that calls himself Jesus (has visited me). But as powerful as he may be, Jesus be Jesus and God be God.

a reply to: neoholographic

John 14:9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.

John 12:45 And whoever sees Me sees the One who sent Me.

Ephesians:

…that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all. Ephesians 1:20-23

John 5:21-23 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.”

Ephesians 1:20-21 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

Colossians 2:9-10 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.

GOD The Father, GOD The Holy Spirit, and GOD The Only Son Jesus, are one.

a reply to: glend

You said some people suggest Trump is anointed by God
I suggested by your same logic that Biden, Putin the pope and Kamala May be anointed by God because someone may have said as much
Then you throw in Romans 13 and Romans’ uses “established” and not anointed
The difference is significant glend

Just because some man says, “he is anointed” do you really need someone to tell you it’s a bit silly to listen to that man?

a reply to: Justoneman

Truth may indeed be analog rather than binary. But that does not dismiss the warning against praying to idols before God. When we create mental constructs before God we are no longer praying to God. We are instead praying to a mental construct that exists in our mind. That is why the God of Israel has no attributes that the mind can grasp. Even his name is banned from verbalizing so the mind cannot use a "label" to form mental images.

God is not something external that we can point too.

“For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will ascend to heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it."
Deuteronomy 30:11-14

a reply to: glend

Except you are using Deuteronomy and Jesus has come
Jesus is the Word and took the voyage
Jesus completed Deuteronomy 30/11-14

a reply to: Raggedyman

Deuteronomy 30/11-14 tells us the word is not received from an external source but already exists in our heart so we may do it. Whereas the word in Christianity is "spoken" from an external source .... 1 Thessalonians 2:13 "You received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God".

The hearts language is love.

a reply to: glend

Can’t it not be both, we are communal beings called out for a purpose
In and of and sharing