US Firearms and Todays Society

What to do oh what to do. Another mass shooting has taken place today, the 212th this year.

Membet Freeborn indicated that an adult conversation needs to happen. I agree. So much death and today involving children will evoke strong emotions to the topic.

As an American and a supporter of the Constitution, standing behind it is where Ill be.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Where Id like to get the ball rolling is at the point of education.

Me, personally, ive always been around firearms. Long before I knew of the 2nd ammendment and what it means. This, from my experience, seems to be the exception and not the rule.

In a country built on the foundationa of free speech and arms, shouldnt they be taught in the general education cirriculum?

a reply to: JinMI

I agree. So much death and today involving children will evoke strong emotions to the topic.

I wish so many people that wanted to ban guns "for the children" didnt want to abort them the day before the due date

It sours the argument.

a reply to: JinMI

But your Constitution isn't perfect and constantly needs 'amending'.
Maybe its time the 2nd Amendment itself needs amending?

I don't buy into the Armed Militia argument....I'd guess - yes, an educated guess but a guess all the same - that the vast majority of gun related killings are carried out by people who don't really give a toss about the 2nd Amendment, Armed Militia's or even your Constitution.

I know it would be impractical and probably total lunacy to introduce gun controls similar to the UK and most other countries in the world to the US - that horse has well and truly bolted - but something has to be done because what you have at present is absolute insanity.

Preserving the status quo will just result in more and more senseless killings.

I don't have the solutions....but as far as I can tell you guys need to start talking about finding some pretty damn quickly.

a reply to: JinMI

As talked about, we need to start punishing criminals.

We've an entire subculture that's "busting caps with their 9's". They glorify gun violence.

Gun violence is not cool, it's not hip. It's not fun. I've spent my entire adult life working in and around the medical field, much as an EMT-I. I've seen it first hand.

I was a military biomed, I've seen it first hand.

The blood, the screaming, the gore, the nightmares.

Those that continue to use firearms in the commission of crimes need to be punished.

We need to stop treating these shooters as "victims of their culture" and start public hangings.

a reply to: JinMI

I totally agree in support of the 2nd, and in education, but it will never be enough.

The only real solution is in mental health screening and treatment. Sad truth is that the percentage of the unhinged in this population keeps increasing, year over year, and for a broad spectrum of reasons.

We have the means available to identify the sociopaths and at an early age. Probably the best solution is to segregate them from genpop (General population), and then to lobotomize the hopeless cases.

Back in the day, these people were institutionalized. Today, they roam freely creating havoc. That policy has put all of genpop at risk, turning this country into a prison without walls. The US cities are now killing fields of hopelessness and despair.

a reply to: JinMI

The question goes well beyond access to guns in my opinion.

There’s something deep seeded in the American psyche and society that compels people to murder en masse. In no other western democratic country (and even others who don’t fit this bill fare better in this regard) do we see the same rate of mass murders and whatever the catalyst behind that is, is the issue that needs to be discussed and explored further and it’s not population rates that make America appear worse.

I struggle to reconcile these atrocities with the Americans I met in a month long holiday when I was over there 11 years ago. I found nearly everyone I interacted with to be decent people from whites, African Americans, Mexicans, Jews you name it...even a few gang members were nice enough.

Disclaimer: I am not anti-gun. I own two rifles and want to keep increasing that collection to include more calibres and types of firearms as I am interested primarily in hunting.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I'd agree with the sentiment about increasing the punishment for illegally possessing guns, for glorifying their use etc but that still doesn't address core issues.
And bear in mind, many of these mass shootings are committed by people who either end up shooting themselves or death-by-cop.

Why is the gangsta lifestyle so attractive?

Why do so many people feel so alienated from society and are consumed with such burning hatred?

Address those sort of questions and I guess you'd see a big reduction in gun related deaths/killings.

a reply to: Freeborn

Thanks for responding.

But your Constitution isn't perfect and constantly needs 'amending'.
Maybe its time the 2nd Amendment itself needs amending?

That would require a convention of states and a 2/3 majority if my memory serves. Lets say you were able to though for the sake of argument. How would you ammend it?

I don't buy into the Armed Militia argument....I'd guess - yes, an educated guess but a guess all the same - that the vast majority of gun related killings are carried out by people who don't really give a toss about the 2nd Amendment, Armed Militia's or even your Constitution.

SCOTUS case DC v Heller.

Held:
1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.

This should fill you in on the militia position.

I will agree that criminals dont care about the rule of law, historically. That brings us to another tangenial subject. The corrupt justice system.

I don't have the solutions....but as far as I can tell you guys need to start talking about finding some pretty damn quickly.

I have a few, some seemingly impossible, others practical and one rather extreme.

1. Education. Im a millenial and my public education didnt cover much more than the 1st ammemdment. In a country thats rooted in arms, education should also be rooted in it.

2. Training. In a similar vein to the above, firearms are an absolute, like them or not. Training should be abundant and encouraged.

3. More guns! Now i know this is counter intuitive to some folks. However this is an adult conversation! So im telling you now, guns arent going away and more are made/sold everyday. So coming to grips allows for the obvious choice. More guns in more trained hands. Teachers, councelors, hired security, moms, dads etc etc.


Mass shootings are typically done in soft target areas. Those being areas without equal or opposing defenses.

a reply to: DBCowboy

You already know I agree.

The generational corruption of our justice system needs to stop.

That is a topic I genuinely do not know how to solve for.

a reply to: Freeborn

I agree.

We don't need to do anything with the 2nd Amendment.

We need to realize that our culture is sick.

There's no respect for life, for anything any more.

The gangsta lifestyle has been glorified in movies and music in our culture for decades.

And now we're seeing the fruit of such endeavors.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: DBCowboy



Why is the gangsta lifestyle so attractive?

Why do so many people feel so alienated from society and are consumed with such burning hatred?

Address those sort of questions and I guess you'd see a big reduction in gun related deaths/killings.

Economics....and the wide disparity between the rich with their easy livin life style and the abject poor that often have nothing but a criminal lifestyle to attain anything near what the trust funders have.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: DBCowboy

You already know I agree.

The generational corruption of our justice system needs to stop.

That is a topic I genuinely do not know how to solve for.

It starts locally by electing DA's who will actually do their job!

a reply to: Freeborn

But your Constitution isn't perfect and constantly needs 'amending'.

By demanding for the Constitution you would force everything to change.
The Constitution isn't the problem its the mental health issue that is the problem.

The shooter reminds me that he likely had some help getting that weapon.

We have no actual mental health treatments in this country, its here take this pill, oh you have a reaction here is another pill. IF they try to get help or a family member tries this is what gets done.

We have broken home problem, we have kids staying years and years in foster care because trying to adopt it expensive and difficult, and you could be right up to the point of adoption, and some tweaked out blood relative says I want the kid and you are screwed.

Our education system has gotten worse since the department of education was created, so we have huge swathes of our country that can barely read or write. (this is in part tied back to the broken home problem as parents need to be engaged with the childs education)

I dont know how to stop it other than we have to improve education, mental health treatment (not just medicate), and try to encourage people to have a family and avoid the hook up culture so the kids get the masculine and feminine exposure they need while growing up.

none of that is fast fix and I dont know if the media would ever give it time to take effect, IF a political party tried to actually fix the root problem.

a reply to: Freeborn

Is it possible that far too many Americans (specifically US residents) conflate gun ownership with some illusion of what they perceive as "power", which they have conflated with a sense of one's self-worth?

Thus the gun becomes a "totem" of their identity as a "strong, independent, and 'free'" individual.

Any thing that might threaten to diminish, or limit that totem is therefore perceived as a personal threat to the image (though not necessarily the reality) of the person's autonomy, their very identity.


In many ways, the strength and ubiquity of the "gun culture" in the US is a strong indicator of an under developed sense of self worth and, yes, perhaps, emotional maturity.

a reply to: Irishhaf

We have no actual mental health treatments in this country

You know what is the major cause of all current wrongs and issues with mental health in the US and most other Western countries?

Social Media platforms. Mostly i would blame Twitter, Tik Tok as well.

a reply to: olaru12

So criminality isnt a choice.

I get what youre saying in regard to economic status seems to be highly proportional to the percentage of crime but to say theres no choice doesnt make sense

a reply to: TonyS

I cant get onboard with a McCarthy style witch hunt of who is mentally incapable.

Would be exploited based on polotical winds and not much else.

See Red Flag Laws as a primer.


I do agree that education wouldnt clear it all up but a good step in the right direction.

a reply to: Mantiss2021

Reading this post of yours, I am wondering if you are confusing the "gangsta" culture with the millions of law-abiding citizens who own guns.

None of the many people I know who own legal guns fit your description.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Very true and I agree with most of that.

But why has the gangsta culture become so popular and prevalent?
What can be done to change that?

Not token schemes that achieve nothing lasting but robust policies that affect people's day to day lives and that provide a genuine alternative to the gangsta culture and associated #e that so many feel there is no other option.