The Paranormal - A new theory about what is going on

Hello happy people!
I'm curious what the community thinks out there. Maybe I'm full of it I don't know.

I have a new theory about the paranormal that coincides with a thought experiment regarding multiverse theory and quantum mechanics. The backbone of quantum mechanics is called the shrodinger equation. Watch this video..



But in this context, there are two outcomes - one where the cat lives, one where the cat dies. The idea is that when we observe a wave or particle the wave function collapses. In the end, you would observe one of two outcomes (not both).

In universe 1 - the cat lives
In universe 2 - the cat dies

But both actually happen in separate realities - referred to as "branching" in this context.

I'm now thinking it is possible there is a third possible outcome that involves the wave function persisting forever without any outside influence to affect it. Kind of like a shadow dimension that only consists of wave functions (like ripples in a pond) moving on and resonating forever. It would be kind of "superimposed" over our reality - like the myriad of other universes that exist. It would be a reality only consisting of energy. Possibly with a shadowy version of our own dimension bleeding through slightly.

Since it would be possible for us to exist in multiple states at once, it would mean when we die, we are dead.
But in this "shadow" realm our energy (in a subatomic entanglement sense) would persist - complete with any memories we would have acquired during our lifespan.

The stronger the energy at the source, the stronger its influence could persist in that location (Similar to a rock in a pond). But spirits would not be able to "see" like we do. So a "spirit's" senses would be limited to being able to slightly/subtly influence the energy bleed-through around an object or objects as they would perceive on their end.

Essentially, we would exist in multiple states at once as the wave function resonates. Meaning, yes, via the shrodinger equation the branching does occur but with more than just 2 potential outcomes.

This would make the multiverse 'branching" more than just one reality splitting into two possible outcomes. it would basically add another multiplier - which would be more evidence of a multiverse and a higher possibility of infinite universes.

After thinking about this for a few days, I'm now thinking that time is a really important factor in how this would all play out.
Not all universes experience time like ours.

If there really is a shadow dimension consisting only of energy and energy bleed-through from "nearby" parallel worlds, the evidence of the paranormal would be very subtle most of the time (which is basically in line with what we see in reality).
But it would also be more complicated. Waves would be moving in all directions all the time so there would be "turbulence" of sorts.

This could potentially allow for travel from one location to another. It would be less like drops in a pond though and more like an amorphous multi-dimensional fluid.

The intelligent aspect of the paranormal, in this case at least, is something that I'm not really sure about.

One idea would be that our bodies consist of particles, with electrons spinning around them. And everything down to our own human physiology (our brains, muscle movements, memories, etc) is governed by energy and it's potential. So, perhaps, there is entanglement occurring with our bodies on a macro and micro level simultaneously between ourselves and our local environment when we are alive- even with specific objects. But it is too subtle to measure with scientific instruments. But since the entanglement occurs throughout your whole body, that energy can persist in this "shadow" world.

Essentially, meaning that your body's energy would persist in multiple states at once. Not a wave or particle but both all of the time forever.
But not like one would think of a human body. Energy can take many forms and can do many things. So perhaps if you wanted to be as small as a marble or something you could isolate your energy that way and "ride" the energy around you.

This is very similar to how photons work. Photons (light) exists as particles and waves at once all the time but only become a particle or wave when we "measure" or "observe" it (because the wave function collapses).

One really strange side effect of what this would mean is that on some level the universe has a memory.
In short timespans, a spirit could interact with its local environment (although very limited) and move around somewhat.
But over extremely large timespans on our side the energy would essentially just "become" part of the spread out, underlying foundation of the universe - complete with life experiences and memories of every creature that has ever existed just spread out over an extremely large area.

-ChriS

But in this context, there are two outcomes - one where the cat lives, one where the cat dies. The idea is that when we observe a wave or particle the wave function collapses. In the end, you would observe one of two outcomes (not both).

In universe 1 - the cat lives
In universe 2 - the cat dies

No, the Shrodinger equation says the cat is BOTH dead and alive.

If you want to get into alternate realities, the Philadelphia experiment is a strange one. As for Schrodinger, the cat is dead or alive, not and or both. It is good to at least consider some of these theories out there. The numbers and evidence of these hypothetical branches don't add up. If you find something more solid than some thought about a cat, post it.

originally posted by: charlyv

But in this context, there are two outcomes - one where the cat lives, one where the cat dies. The idea is that when we observe a wave or particle the wave function collapses. In the end, you would observe one of two outcomes (not both).

In universe 1 - the cat lives
In universe 2 - the cat dies

He was referring to the MWI (Many Worlds Interpretation) posed by Everett later on. In the MWI, in one universe the cat is dead, in the other it is alive.

The entire post is a thought exercise on the MWI theory to explain paranormal experiences.

Which has both its merits and problems... I have argued both sides of the theory before.

S&F for the OP BlasteR, BTW...

a reply to: Lumenari

Thanks, but I will go with how the mainstream Quantum Science physicists choose to interpret it. We need to get a handle on that before we roll the paranormal into the mix.

originally posted by: charlyv
a reply to: Lumenari

Thanks, but I will go with how the mainstream Quantum Science physicists choose to interpret it. We need to get a handle on that before we roll the paranormal into the mix.

None of the advances so far in QS was started by, tested or proven by anyone in "mainstream" science.

But it is good to know that we can't discuss a paranormal theory anymore on ATS.

I missed that memo and will leave the thread as to not disturb you further.

a reply to: BlasteR

Shrodinger was somewhat correct in this thought experiment for his time based on what was known about the double slit experiment at that point in science.

That argument is now largely considered wrong and for multiple reasons. That's not to say we are any closer to the actual answers only that we know that thought experiment hasn't held up through the advances of quantum mechanics and where we are at now.

There very well may be multi dimensions, multi worlds, no one can say for certain at this specific time. That is not the issue I wanted to convey though, Shrodinger and the cat, are outdated and no longer apply to any popular theory.

This is an excellent video describing where we are at currently with that from some of the most brilliant minds in world right now on these subjects, if you are interested in this kind of stuff, you could do a lot worse!

youtu.be...

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: charlyv
a reply to: Lumenari

Thanks, but I will go with how the mainstream Quantum Science physicists choose to interpret it. We need to get a handle on that before we roll the paranormal into the mix.

None of the advances so far in QS was started by, tested or proven by anyone in "mainstream" science.

But it is good to know that we can't discuss a paranormal theory anymore on ATS.

I missed that memo and will leave the thread as to not disturb you further.

Mainstream science are the chairs of their respective disciplines and are usually concerned with only what is relevant in perfecting, sustaining and rejecting theory based on rigorous use of the scientific method.

You can certainly discuss anything paranormal on ATS, and who says that you cannot?

I have read many of your posts, and many are very good but science has a long way to go before paranormal activity becomes recognized as a category that can be assigned to any scientific theory.

Hey, I think ghosts are a fascinating subject, but no one knows what they may be, especially science, without which no technology would work today.

So, come up with a theory on the paranormal that can pass through the gauntlet unscathed, then you do not have to have an attitude about it.

originally posted by: charlyv
a reply to: Lumenari

Thanks, but I will go with how the mainstream Quantum Science physicists choose to interpret it. We need to get a handle on that before we roll the paranormal into the mix.

No main stream quantum physicists "interpret" it. They just do the math. You will not find a consensus on an interpretation on how or why something is happening. The many worlds interpretation is just as valid as any other.

a reply to: BlasteR


you said in conclusion: "One really strange side effect of what this would mean is that on some level the universe has a memory.
In short timespans, a spirit could interact with its local environment (although very limited) and move around somewhat.
But over extremely large timespans on our side the energy would essentially just "become" part of the spread out, underlying foundation of the universe - complete with life experiences and memories of every creature that has ever existed just spread out over an extremely large area.

-ChriS"




i thought metaphysics and the area of Spirituality (think of Turtle Island Tribes of original native Americans) and of course the Buddhists and Hindi of India/Pakistan cultures.

that mountains/rivers/ forests/ et al... have Strong Spirits and even Consciousness/Awareness

those wave &/or particle forms of the physical universe, are just patterns of 'being in existence', properties of 'IS-ness'

in Genesis, the 'Deep' is a metaphor for Quantum Reality/Worlds/Universes

a reply to: charlyv

the Shrodinger equation says the cat is BOTH dead and alive.

No. Schrödinger equation says that the wave function of the cat system corresponds to both states simultaneously, regardless of the cat being EITHER dead or EITHER alive. It also says that the wave function is not the cat, but the PROBABILITY to find the cat EITHER dead or ALIVE.

The wave function of an object is not the object. It is a description of the probability of finding the object in this or that particular state. But yes, the OP made a mistake, too.

This scenario (do not know anything about Q theory) is what I believe, but not a lot of multiple worlds but maybe 1 or 2. I base this on my interpretations of the files of David Paulides. Yes, people think he's a story teller of fantastic stories, but seriously examine his evidence, or lack of it, and the only conclusion I can come to is a parallel world, or worlds, in the same space as our own.

a reply to: crayzeed


It cannot be in the same space because that's the only thing that makes things different: that they occupy different locations in space at a given time.

You can have a perfect replica of whatever thing you wish, for instance, an electron. They are identical in everything, except that they occupy different locations in space. That's what makes things really different from each other.

You can have two or as many worlds you wish, but they cannot occupy the same location in space simultaneously.

a reply to: Direne
I think it's another unknown piece of physics. Yes it's fantastical, but this would explain most of the paranormal events that are well documented. Like people slipping into another time, Ghosts, all the strange creature sightings, UFOs etc. The happenings at the Skinwalker Ranch could be proof, but just because we, at this moment in time, cannot explain it does not rule anything out. Please look at David Paulides work and tell me there is another explanation.

a reply to: crayzeed


But crazyeed, I'm not discussing Mr. Paulides' theories and explanations. I'm just stating you don't need a parallel world to explain those paraphysical events. Just your world, and with just your current physics, you can explain them all.

However, let's assume there exists a parallel world, and let's assume the guys who live in that gemina world can influence this world. Why do they always do it the creepy way? Why is it that you cannot perceive the smell of the flowers there, or see a sparrow escaping from that world to yours? Why always ghosts, demons, or strange creatures? Why not a single parallel-worldly average Joe, say, a farmer, a kid going to school, a tax collector, a bus driver, three unemployed guys, or a dog having a # in the corner?

Isn't strange that only creepy things come from that parallel world? Shouldn't we rather accept that just one world suffices to explain those events?

originally posted by: charlyv

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: charlyv
a reply to: Lumenari

Thanks, but I will go with how the mainstream Quantum Science physicists choose to interpret it. We need to get a handle on that before we roll the paranormal into the mix.

None of the advances so far in QS was started by, tested or proven by anyone in "mainstream" science.

But it is good to know that we can't discuss a paranormal theory anymore on ATS.

I missed that memo and will leave the thread as to not disturb you further.

Mainstream science are the chairs of their respective disciplines and are usually concerned with only what is relevant in perfecting, sustaining and rejecting theory based on rigorous use of the scientific method.

You can certainly discuss anything paranormal on ATS, and who says that you cannot?

I have read many of your posts, and many are very good but science has a long way to go before paranormal activity becomes recognized as a category that can be assigned to any scientific theory.

Hey, I think ghosts are a fascinating subject, but no one knows what they may be, especially science, without which no technology would work today.

So, come up with a theory on the paranormal that can pass through the gauntlet unscathed, then you do not have to have an attitude about it.

Sorry but "Yes they do" know what they be. I'm one of them. Something you must experience to know. It doesn't matter what you believe about it if you haven't experienced them. (Or understood the experience). Many do understand the spirit realm without the need for a bunch of unbelieving scientists, only because they have no frame of reference to know what the hell it even is. I don't mean this to be in any way disrespectful to you or what your experiences have been. Science is simply not the ultimate authority on "everything"..

Meow???

originally posted by: BlasteR

I usually like Veritasium videos, but this one is incorrect at time index 11:11:
"This interpretation of quantum mechanics is called "Many Worlds" and it was formulated by Hugh Everett."

That's the common myth, but Everett denied that, he spoke of a "Universal Wave Function"

arxiv.org...

It seems clear that DeWitt and Graham consider that the multitude of branching worlds are “real” in the ordinary sense of the word. In this sense, their Many Worlds perspective certainly departs from Everett’s intent.

In a 1976 philosophy paper on the interpretation of quantum mechanics, Levy-Leblond offers critical comments on the many worlds interpretation and compared it to his understanding of Everett’s theory.

Now, my criticism here is exactly symmetrical of the one I directed against the orthodox position: the “many worlds” idea again is a left-over of classical conceptions. The coexisting branches here, as the unique surviving one in the Copenhagen point of view, can only be related to “worlds” described by classical physics. The difference is that, instead of interpreting the quantum “plus” as a classical “or”, De Witt et al. interpret it as a classical “and”. To me, the deep meaning of Everett's ideas is not the coexistence of many worlds, but on the contrary, the existence of a single quantum one.The main drawback of the “many-worlds” terminology is that it leads one to ask the question of “what branch we are on”, since it certainly looks as if our consciousness definitely belonged to only one world at a time: But this question only makes sense from a classical point of view, once more. It becomes entirely irrelevant as soon as one commits oneself to a consistent quantum view.

In a letter to Levy-Leblond (Barrett 2011), Everett indicated that he quite agreed with Levy-Leblond’s argument and emphasized that the many worlds terminology was not his. I’m sympathetic with this view.

Everett's idea was that the problem with interpretations like Copenhagen have a quantum system being observed by observers which seem to be more classical than quantum. His paper said that's a problem because even the observers are quantum, so what's needed is a "universal wavefunction" that includes not just the system being observed, but also the observers. The "Many worlds" interpretation of Everett's work according to that paper may be yet another example of the problem of still trying to think classically in a quantum world.

Sean Carroll appears in that video to promote his speculation in his book about "Many Worlds", but he also made another video where he admits it's speculative and that nobody really knows if it's correct, or if one of the other interpretations is correct. In his other video, he doesn't claim it's correct, but he says it's embarassing that nobody knows which interpretation is correct, so this video is actually less biased and more informative of the actual state of affairs on the interpretation of quantum mechanics.

Sean Carroll explains that nobody knows which interpretation of quantum mechanics is correct.


So in that video, Carroll says we can't say his preferred "many worlds" speculation is wrong, and can't say it's right, he says nobody knows the correct interpretation. So it seems silly to pretend we know the answer before we do. Carroll and others are entitled to their speculation of course, but I think it's better when it's presented clearly as such and I'm not sure it's as clear in the Veritasium video that the interpretation is speculative. Carroll makes that more clear in the Sixty Symbols video above, than in the Veritasium video in the OP.

I also think another alternative that should be considered is Everett's original idea of universal wave function, which does not specify "many worlds", but so many people are confused by the idea that "many worlds" was Everett's idea that nobody seems to consider what Everett actually wrote, but what later authors like DeWitt and Graham piled on instead.

originally posted by: BlasteR
If there really is a shadow dimension consisting only of energy and energy bleed-through from "nearby" parallel worlds, the evidence of the paranormal would be very subtle most of the time (which is basically in line with what we see in reality).

One of the good arguments against this is that we have many observations that show energy is conserved. If energy was "bleeding-through" to other dimensions or universes or whatever, then this should create issues with our energy conservation observation in our universe, but it doesn't. We observe energy being conserved.

So I think that's a specific reason to doubt "energy bleed-through". There's a longer explanation of how not only energy conservation but also other physical laws work in exactly three dimensions plus time, and would not match observation of there were other, large dimensions or parallel universes (though it doesn't rule out dimensions smaller than a proton, but we can't readily observe those, if they exist as some theories speculate).

Higher Dimensions in Physics and Mathematics!

Pseudoscientists lean heavily on the assumption that their readers will know absolutely nothing about science or math. This is a pretty safe assumption, alas. And it requires no effort on the part of the pseudoscientist, because he also invariably knows no science or math either.

It is worth summarizing the ways in which the various concepts of "higher dimensions'' gradually diffused out from legitimate math and science, through hundreds of increasingly distorted, confused and muddled journalistic presentations and sensationalizations...

Higher dimensions in pseudoscience are often even further confused with then-unrelated scenarios, such as "coexistent worlds,'' "parallel worlds,'' the "worlds'' reached in dreams and drug-visions, not to mention Heaven, Hell, and even other planets. Mindless journalistic publicity for string theories has over the past two decades touched off yet another wave of science-fictional and fantastical delirium involving "multiple universes," a delirium owing a lot to late 19th Century Theosophy, but essentially nothing whatsoever to advances in physics.

Pseudoscientists and fiction writers have always loved "higher dimensions.'' Almost any fantasy can be motivated by appeal to the "mysterious 4th dimension,'' or the famous "15th Akasic dimension.'' But it is important to realize that such concepts are not borrowed from either science or mathematics, and have no basis whatsoever in the verified descriptions and observed phenomena of the world we actually live in.

a reply to: Arbitrageur
What is really being said there is if you're not a scientist or mathematician keep your nose out. I wonder if they said that to Tesla or Edison and other non scientists or mathematicians.
Verified descriptions:- Adults, children and animals being taken, verified innumerable times. Besides intensive searches by professionals, beside professional trackers finding no tracks, beside tracker dogs finding no scent, all verified, yet still no person.
Then, verified descriptions of said adults, children and animals being returned to places that they could not possibly be in because Professionals had been there numerous times, that's professionals in their fields just as professional as a scientist or a mathematician.
Observation:- there were no method of abduction observed, no helicopter, no UFO, no other vehicles, just taken from the one spot. Observed:- complete opposite of local weather, eg. sunny day, just turned violently stormy.
Now if you were a scientist what would you conclude of the descriptions and observations.
1. They are being taken somewhere. Needs further investigation. NOT just because I can't explain it I'll dismiss it.
2. The take and return is never observed. That in itself has two suppositions A. Whoever is doing it can "see" us but we can't see them because they can see no one is near to observe their actions. And B. By that explanation they are intelligent.
3. Those returned alive have no recollection of what or where. Those that have been returned dead, the vast majority, no one can confirm the cause of death.
Now I could go into portals and parallel worlds but it would take more that ATS can take.