America is burning and you are at fault.

Greetings ATS,

Listen, I have tried very hard to stay out of things recently and let the events play out as they will without my interjection. Sadly, for all of us, I feel compelled to make this post. Make no mistake, this isn't a post on political ideology but very directly the state of our Republic.

You may or may not like Donald Trump and to be honest, for the point of this thread, it doesn't matter because to be completely honest that isn't what this is about. You see, our country much like a weather vein on the top of an old rustic barn sways from one direction to the next based on the day and while it gives you some good information on what you should expect that day, you never really worry because tomorrow will always be different.

I will not in this thread, preach, educate, speculate nor embellish what many call "wide spread voter fraud". You see, we have come to a pointe in our belief systems where the evidence of this has become what I can only describe as subjective. We don't always see the same thing and where some of us see smoke and fire..... Others only see a failed attempt at rubbing sticks together.

The things I would really like every member of ATS to focus on is not one of any fundamental political ideology we have but one of basic American principles. What has happened in the last week regarding Parler being scrubbed from the internet, over 70 thousand other accounts being banned and no less than all 3 tech giants doing this in lockstep is what we really need to take in and understand.

I may not agree with many of the things my opponents say on ATS but as the saying goes and I will take this to my grave. I will always defend your right to say it. Your viewpoint can be wrong, it can be flawed and what exposes that is open communication with those that oppose what you say. In some instances as has happened with me before on this very website, I become enlightened and realize the error in my logic.

Lets all be honest...... That doesn't always happen but without open communication, it could NEVER happen. I have seen in posts the people among us here that celebrate the deplatforming and silencing of Parler, I have seen those of you that would be happy to even go steps further.......

Maybe some of you have lost your way, hell...... Maybe we all have but at some pointe, we were all here to deny ignorance and if anyone on ATS reading this post right now thinks this type of totalitarian dictatorship of information is a step in the right direction for our country, I think you have lost your way or have been blinded by political ideology and hate.

This was NEVER what America was supposed to be nor can we allow it to happen, left, right or center. It's not legacy of freedom we want to pass down to our children and not something we can be proud of. Put the differences aside for a bit and understand how important an implication like this is because I promise you......... If we allow this, it never ends from here.

if anyone on ATS reading this post right now thinks this type of totalitarian dictatorship of information is a step in the right direction for our country, I think you have lost your way or have been blinded by political ideology and hate.

a reply to: Helious

I agree 100%

Great post.

originally posted by: Helious
Greetings ATS,

Listen, I have tried very hard to stay out of things recently and let the events play out as they will without my interjection. Sadly, for all of us, I feel compelled to make this post. Make no mistake, this isn't a post on political ideology but very directly the state of our Republic.

You may or may not like Donald Trump and to be honest, for the point of this thread, it doesn't matter because to be completely honest that isn't what this is about. You see, our country much like a weather vein on the top of an old rustic barn sways from one direction to the next based on the day and while it gives you some good information on what you should expect that day, you never really worry because tomorrow will always be different.

I will not in this thread, preach, educate, speculate nor embellish what many call "wide spread voter fraud". You see, we have come to a pointe in our belief systems where the evidence of this has become what I can only describe as subjective. We don't always see the same thing and where some of us see smoke and fire..... Others only see a failed attempt at rubbing sticks together.

The things I would really like every member of ATS to focus on is not one of any fundamental political ideology we have but one of basic American principles. What has happened in the last week regarding Parler being scrubbed from the internet, over 70 thousand other accounts being banned and no less than all 3 tech giants doing this in lockstep is what we really need to take in and understand.

I may not agree with many of the things my opponents say on ATS but as the saying goes and I will take this to my grave. I will always defend your right to say it. Your viewpoint can be wrong, it can be flawed and what exposes that is open communication with those that oppose what you say. In some instances as has happened with me before on this very website, I become enlightened and realize the error in my logic.

Lets all be honest...... That doesn't always happen but without open communication, it could NEVER happen. I have seen in posts the people among us here that celebrate the deplatforming and silencing of Parler, I have seen those of you that would be happy to even go steps further.......

Maybe some of you have lost your way, hell...... Maybe we all have but at some pointe, we were all here to deny ignorance and if anyone on ATS reading this post right now thinks this type of totalitarian dictatorship of information is a step in the right direction for our country, I think you have lost your way or have been blinded by political ideology and hate.

This was NEVER what America was supposed to be nor can we allow it to happen, left, right or center. It's not legacy of freedom we want to pass down to our children and not something we can be proud of. Put the differences aside for a bit and understand how important an implication like this is because I promise you......... If we allow this, it never ends from here.

Excellent.

Well said, this could apply to the World.

I'm shocked that so many intentionally conflate this as a free speech issue.

Its not.
In America you have the right to say whatever you'd like (bar certain words in some situations).
Nobody is obliged to give you a soapbox for your words.Nobody is obliged to lend you equipment for your words.

This isnt a free speech issue, never will be, it is the equivalent of claiming a publishing house that refuses to publish my novel has violated my right to free speech.

False.

a reply to: Helious

China is THRILLED by the U.S. Chaos: www.cnbc.com...

a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

Not even close.


Let's look at what happened to say Parler agree with them or not.

Their app was removed by Apple and Google then servers cancelled by Amazon.

Picture getting clear yet?

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied
I'm shocked that so many intentionally conflate this as a free speech issue.

Its not.
In America you have the right to say whatever you'd like (bar certain words in some situations).
Nobody is obliged to give you a soapbox for your words.Nobody is obliged to lend you equipment for your words.

This isnt a free speech issue, never will be, it is the equivalent of claiming a publishing house that refuses to publish my novel has violated my right to free speech.

False.

I'm very sorry to disagree with you my friend but I'm sad to say you are fundamentally wrong in everything you just said. I hate to state something like that because I know you will automatically be offended and assume I'm attacking you in some way which I can assure you, I'm not. Let me explain.

The world and I specifically mean the world, not just America does not operate as it did 20 years ago. Very significant fundamental things have changed, the least of which is how we distribute and disseminate information. Seems like a positive thing on it's face but that is before you factor in groups of people with differing agendas.

When you allow for that, you start to understand in today's society how much information actually means and more than that how it shapes the country both domestically and even foreign policy.

Based on Constitutional values, our government should be transparent in what it does in certain respects, not least of which is the most important civic duty a civilian has which is voting. To allow a mandate of civic duty like that be non transparent and then much more importantly to actively engage in widespread deplatforming, harassment and suppression of meaningful speech is not only destructive to America, it is wholly unsustainable.

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied
I'm shocked that so many intentionally conflate this as a free speech issue.

Its not.
In America you have the right to say whatever you'd like (bar certain words in some situations).
Nobody is obliged to give you a soapbox for your words.Nobody is obliged to lend you equipment for your words.

This isnt a free speech issue, never will be, it is the equivalent of claiming a publishing house that refuses to publish my novel has violated my right to free speech.

False.

Publish,did i hear publish?So they must be publishers then. so section 230 shouldn't apply to them then.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

Not even close.


Let's look at what happened to say Parler agree with them or not.

Their app was removed by Apple and Google then servers cancelled by Amazon.

Picture getting clear yet?

Same thing will happen there.

Capitalism will take over and they will be hosted from other servers.

This will be competition in the market against Amazon and the rest. Same with platforms like Facebook and Twitter. It just takes time for markets to shift. It's happening already.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

Not even close.


Let's look at what happened to say Parler agree with them or not.

Their app was removed by Apple and Google then servers cancelled by Amazon.

Picture getting clear yet?

Same thing will happen there.

Capitalism will take over and they will be hosted from other servers.

This will be competition in the market against Amazon and the rest. Same with platforms like Facebook and Twitter. It just takes time for markets to shift. It's happening already.

This isn't quite the whole picture I'm afraid. If you are familiar with the owners of Parler as I am you would know they are unable at this time to get anyone with a server farm big enough to host them despite the cost because they have been outcast by the big "3".

Political intimidation. Any other company that would take them on in a second will not and it's not based on their ideology nor Parlers, it's based on fear that they will be next.

a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

This isnt a free speech issue, never will be, it is the equivalent of claiming a publishing house that refuses to publish my novel has violated my right to free speech.

It is more like the publisher that will not publish your novel has bought control of all publishers and will not let anyone publish your novel.

I would add any individuals wanting to publish you openly or secretly threatened in one way or another so they won't.

a reply to: Helious

It might take a minute but they'll find the hosting somewhere. That's if people decide to even go with parler. Right now there will be a lot of shuffling and confusion but it will will figure itself out. The market for it will force it into being. Not that it's an easy fix, I'm just saying, imo it will happen because it just will.

Plus you get the plus side of taking power from those big 3 also at that point. Fixing another problem.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

Not even close.


Let's look at what happened to say Parler agree with them or not.

Their app was removed by Apple and Google then servers cancelled by Amazon.

Picture getting clear yet?

Same thing will happen there.

Capitalism will take over and they will be hosted from other servers.

This will be competition in the market against Amazon and the rest. Same with platforms like Facebook and Twitter. It just takes time for markets to shift. It's happening already.

This is why they used to not allow monopolies. they also did not allow positions and political races to be owned by big business, the laws have changed. The protections are gone.

One everything was in position it was an end to the "competition" as we knew it.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Helious

It might take a minute but they'll find the hosting somewhere. That's if people decide to even go with parler. Right now there will be a lot of shuffling and confusion but it will will figure itself out. The market for it will force it into being. Not that it's an easy fix, I'm just saying, imo it will happen because it just will.

Plus you get the plus side of taking power from those big 3 also at that point. Fixing another problem.

I hope your right, not because I have so much belief in Parler but I would like to see a company survive this kind of attack, fight back and survive because I think it's in the best interest of our country.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

Not even close.


Let's look at what happened to say Parler agree with them or not.

Their app was removed by Apple and Google then servers cancelled by Amazon.

Picture getting clear yet?

If I was waving around a sign outside of Walmart advertising an extremist ideology (doesn't matter who is targeted) and yelling incendiary comments at people as they walk by, then I can fully expect to be escorted from their property and prohibited from returning. It's called property laws and it applies to the internet as well. Frankly it's hilarious that everyone acts like they never realized social media is 100% privilege and that's why T&Cs (that stuff we skip and click agree) exist in the first place. It's a contract and it gives the property owner every right to deny you service if you piss them off. Play nice or take your toys somewhere else.

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied
I'm shocked that so many intentionally conflate this as a free speech issue.

Its not.
In America you have the right to say whatever you'd like (bar certain words in some situations).
Nobody is obliged to give you a soapbox for your words.Nobody is obliged to lend you equipment for your words.

This isnt a free speech issue, never will be, it is the equivalent of claiming a publishing house that refuses to publish my novel has violated my right to free speech.

False.

They are not PUBLISHERS and are a Platform. Under 230 they should not remove anyone UNLESS it specifically breaks their rules. and only then rules that are evenly applied.
If they are PUBLISHING,they are no longer protected by 230. maybe we should designate them a public utility hmm?

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

Not even close.


Let's look at what happened to say Parler agree with them or not.

Their app was removed by Apple and Google then servers cancelled by Amazon.

Picture getting clear yet?

If I was waving around a sign outside of Walmart advertising an extremist ideology (doesn't matter who is targeted) and yelling incendiary comments at people as they walk by, then I can fully expect to be escorted from their property and prohibited from returning. It's called property laws and it applies to the internet as well. Frankly it's hilarious that everyone acts like they never realized social media is 100% privilege and that's why T&Cs (that stuff we skip and click agree) exist in the first place. It's a contract and it gives the property owner every right to deny you service if you piss them off. Play nice or take your toys somewhere else.

They get tax breaks and things from tax payers,so they should fall under Gov control in all honesty. Time to designate them a Utility and remove their kick backs,and tax breaks.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

Not even close.


Let's look at what happened to say Parler agree with them or not.

Their app was removed by Apple and Google then servers cancelled by Amazon.

Picture getting clear yet?

If I was waving around a sign outside of Walmart advertising an extremist ideology (doesn't matter who is targeted) and yelling incendiary comments at people as they walk by, then I can fully expect to be escorted from their property and prohibited from returning. It's called property laws and it applies to the internet as well. Frankly it's hilarious that everyone acts like they never realized social media is 100% privilege and that's why T&Cs (that stuff we skip and click agree) exist in the first place. It's a contract and it gives the property owner every right to deny you service if you piss them off. Play nice or take your toys somewhere else.

You make a great point and perhaps it would hit home a little more if Twitter and Facebook were not just as guilty or even more guilty of egregious speech, posts and rhetoric. It's not the idea that is a problem, it is the hypocrisy in how the idea is carried out that is a problem.

Exceptionally thoughtful and well designed post

This is who we are at our best on ATS

Thank you OP!

a reply to: mOjOm

I would invite you to look up a list of which companies Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, and Alphabet own or have a controlling stake in. There is no possibility for market competition, there will be intimidation of those who attempt to compete, with the eventual capitulation of a buy-out of the competition or the competition's hosting platform. Soon, and I would imagine it to happen in the next 6 months or so if it is going to happen, watch the ISP's and other telecom companies get bought up by some of these other tech companies.

The only semi-bright spot I've seen so far is Elon Musk is kinda giving these guys the finger, and coming out with his own infrastructure. Now there are dangers there, say he changes his mind one day and decides he agrees with all this, then there will be no infrastructure in order to operate on.