Video of unarmed - Ashley Babbit - Trump Protester at the US Capitol - getting shot

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: eManym
You are grounded in your beliefs. Don't expect me to try changing your beliefs. Argument over for me.

Your the one that seems to think people can be shot for screaming?

And I thought lethal force is authorized when a person presents a clear threat with the means to carry out that threat.


Should a quadriplegic be shot if they threaten to kick someone to death?

She's wearing a backpack.
I suppose correct protocol for federal security in that situation is to politely ask if there's anything in there that could cause harm before taking the safety of your firearm?..

originally posted by: frogs453
Pence was sheltered inside the Capitol while listening to chants of "hang Pence", but sure let the woman through the window and let the crowd follow her through against one guy with a gun. That would have ended well, correct?

Trump knew he was in the shelter with his family too and not a call from Trump to check on him.

a reply to: djz3ro

Instead we got a Tweet from Trump saying that Pence had betrayed him.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

And now President Reject Trump isn't going to Biden's inauguration but Pence is. I wonder if that will be seen as another chance for Pence to overturn the results.

a reply to: djz3ro

Maybe he'll get another coin to add to his collection, eh?

To defend stupid actions like this says a lot about a person. The lady in question did not go there with good intentions, it was evident from her absolute tirade on camera prior to this. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 9/10, would watch again.

originally posted by: pr0ph3t
To defend stupid actions like this says a lot about a person. The lady in question did not go there with good intentions, it was evident from her absolute tirade on camera prior to this. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 9/10, would watch again.

Then why did the law enforcement in fort of the doors standing toe toe with her stand down. If she was a threat to a law maker, the security detail at the doors with Babbitt would have not been told to stand down.

To be justified in the use of lethal force. One. There must be a clear physical threat. Two, there must be a credible means to carry out that threat.

Please. By all means. What physical threat was made by Babbitt? And how was she to carry out that threat?

The right response should have been to push Babbitt back through the window. Or if she was a threat, detain her instead of standing down.

If she resisted, then lethal force would be authorized.

a reply to: Ruiner1978

You

She's wearing a backpack.

As pointed out repeatedly. She literally was face to face and toe toe toe with law enforcement before they were told to stand down. If her backpack was a concern, they would have not stood down.

A backpack explosive can also as easily been rigged to detonate if Babbitt became immobilized/ shot.

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: pr0ph3t
To defend stupid actions like this says a lot about a person. The lady in question did not go there with good intentions, it was evident from her absolute tirade on camera prior to this. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 9/10, would watch again.

Then why did the law enforcement in fort of the doors standing toe toe with her stand down. If she was a threat to a law maker, the security detail at the doors with Babbitt would have not been told to stand down.

To be justified in the use of lethal force. One. There must be a clear physical threat. Two, there must be a credible means to carry out that threat.

Please. By all means. What physical threat was made by Babbitt? And how was she to carry out that threat?

The right response should have been to push Babbitt back through the window. Or if she was a threat, detain her instead of standing down.

If she resisted, then lethal force would be authorized.

Were there not dozens of cops in there trying to get them back out? Yes.

Was she crawling through windows that protesters broke? Yes.

Was there people on the other side of that door pointing guns at them, indicating that an armed official did not want them coming into the rotunda? Yes.

Has the right-wing been reminding everyone over the last year “Remember who has all the guns in this country.”? Yes.

I 100% agree that some answers better come out for why certain cops opened the gates, but that doesn’t negate anything that happened once they were inside the Capitol. To a cop inside that rotunda, with limited views and can only hear a CLUSTERF*CK going on outside involving rubber bullets, pepper spray/tear gas and a whole lot of screaming, they knew people were breaking in and getting past the cops. If they were willing to fight the police to get where they were going, the cops inside the rotunda had to make a call with whatever they were given at the time, with the duty to protect everyone inside the rotunda.

It’s astounding seeing you guys try to spin this now, after a year of “Listen to the cops or get shot. That easy. Don’t break the law and then defy an officer right after you break it.”, that you’re all of a sudden flipping your stance on cops shooting people.

originally posted by: Drucifer
It’s astounding seeing you guys try to spin this now, after a year of “Listen to the cops or get shot. That easy. Don’t break the law and then defy an officer right after you break it.”, that you’re all of a sudden flipping your stance on cops shooting people.

Someone should do these people a solid and post that Chris Rick PSA on how not to get shot by the po-po's.

Oh, the hell with it, here it is. All LARP'ers considering in engaging in violent or lawless behavior please watch:

a reply to: Drucifer

You

Were there not dozens of cops in there trying to get them back out? Yes.

I am referring to a specific group where the law enforcement with then was told to stand down.

Was she crawling through windows that protesters broke? Yes.

Ok. Push her back through. Climbing through a window is trespassing. Not a physical threat warranting lethal force.

Unless posted like Area 51 where it clearly states lethal force is authorized, just trespassing on a military base does not warrant the immediate escalation of lethal force.

Shooting unarmed civilians is a good way to go to military prison.

Back to Area 51. And let’s bring the White House into this. Is every breach and trespass end in a firearm being discharged. No. Why do you think that is?

Sorry. The Capitol building is a glorified office building.

Was there people on the other side of that door pointing guns at them, indicating that an armed official did not want them coming into the rotunda? Yes.

If she was a credible threat, then the law enforcement with her would not have stood down. If it escalated to that point, the the law enforcement toe toe to with her would not have stood down. They would stay as back up to resolve the issue.


Also. You cannot just shoot some one because they are “warned”

Court to soldier. Why did you shoot the unarmed civilian? With no attempt to repel or detain?

Soldier to court. I warned them.

Court to soldier. Well. That makes it all good.


You

Has the right-wing been reminding everyone over the last year “Remember who has all the guns in this country.”? Yes

What does that have to do with an unarmed civilian being shot that nobody seems to state what threat she posed, and what credible means she had to carry out any threat?

It’s astounding seeing you guys try to spin this now, after a year of “Listen to the cops or get shot.

Uneducated understanding by all sides when by policy lethal force is authorized.

Big difference between a cop coming up on a stopped car vs a person that will not drop a knife, vs an actual unarmed women with her hands clearly encumbered with climbing through a window.

Don’t break the law and then defy an officer right after you break it.”, that you’re all of a sudden flipping your stance on cops shooting people.

Please quote where I ever posted unarmed rioters should be shot for only posting a threat to property

With the understanding civilians on their personal property is vastly different than law enforcement with rules for lethal force on federal property to prevent government abuses and unnecessary force.

a reply to: Drucifer

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, U.S. ARMY, U.S. NORTHERN COMMAND
U.S. Military Civil Disturbance Standing Rules for the Use of Force (SRUF)

Rule 6.1: USE OF DEADLY FORCE NOT AUTHORIZED – Deadly force is not authorized to disperse a crowd, stop looting, enforce a curfew, or protect non-designated property.

publicintelligence.net...

I understand this is for the military. But I imagine the DOJ dictates similar rules to other branches.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Drucifer

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, U.S. ARMY, U.S. NORTHERN COMMAND
U.S. Military Civil Disturbance Standing Rules for the Use of Force (SRUF)

Rule 6.1: USE OF DEADLY FORCE NOT AUTHORIZED – Deadly force is not authorized to disperse a crowd, stop looting, enforce a curfew, or protect non-designated property.

publicintelligence.net...

I understand this is for the military. But I imagine the DOJ dictates similar rules to other branches.

What about protecting designated personnel?

a reply to: neutronflux
It's interesting that you post WHAT IS NOT AUTHORISED rather than WHAT IS AUTHORISED.

At the end of the day, it's COMMON SENSE that you don't go up against Secret Service Agents. Kinda like how anyone with half a brain knows not to stand on train tracks and face down a speeding oncoming train...

originally posted by: Ruiner1978

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Drucifer

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, U.S. ARMY, U.S. NORTHERN COMMAND
U.S. Military Civil Disturbance Standing Rules for the Use of Force (SRUF)

Rule 6.1: USE OF DEADLY FORCE NOT AUTHORIZED – Deadly force is not authorized to disperse a crowd, stop looting, enforce a curfew, or protect non-designated property.

publicintelligence.net...

I understand this is for the military. But I imagine the DOJ dictates similar rules to other branches.

What about protecting designated personnel?

Was there a designated person within arms or legs reach of Babbitt? What threats did she make? Did she have a credible means to carry out a threat of death or serious bodily damage?

As far a I know, law makers were evacuated from the area on the other side of the door from Babbitt before she was shot. Is that false.

And the people protecting the designated person should have been with their designated person.

a reply to: neutronflux
Good grief!
The very act of what she was doing was obviously a perceived threat.
The fact that she, y'know, GOT SHOT should clue you in that deadly force was authorised.

Here's an idea, next time there's an attempted insurrection at a federal building, wear a backpack, get to the frontline and state your arguments to the agents pointing their guns at you as you climb over their barricades...

originally posted by: Ruiner1978
a reply to: neutronflux
Good grief!
The very act of what she was doing was obviously a perceived threat.
The fact that she, y'know, GOT SHOT should clue you in that deadly force was authorised.

Here's an idea, next time there's an attempted insurrection at a federal building, wear a backpack, get to the frontline and state your arguments to the agents pointing their guns at you as you climb over their barricades...

It was a protest that turned into trespassing.

Sorry your ignorant when lethal force is authorized, and not authorized.

Again... rules for the DOD dictated by the DOJ

Rule 6.1: USE OF DEADLY FORCE NOT AUTHORIZED – Deadly force is not authorized to disperse a crowd, stop looting, enforce a curfew, or protect non-designated property.

publicintelligence.net...

Can you cite the DOJ has different rules for the Capitol law enforcement?

a reply to: neutronflux
Do let me know how you get on at the next insurrection won't you...

originally posted by: Ruiner1978
a reply to: neutronflux
Do let me know how you get on at the next insurrection won't you...

How many rioters were shot by law enforcement while police were forced to abandon police stations this summer?

How many rioters were shot while law enforcement protected federal court houses this summer?


But now it’s an insurrection?

And I thought this thread was about Babbitt being wrongfully shot?

a reply to: neutronflux

Ok, so, How many rioters stormed a federal building while the VP and high ranking officials were inside performing an electoral process, while the rioters were beating police and chanting to hang the VP?
How many Patriots were snatched off the street in unmarked vehicles? How many clergy were pepperballed for no violence?

Rioters for either side are wrong. The shooting was justified whether it was a Patriot or BLM member, although the Capitol steps were filled with armed guards at a BLM March so that was not a likely outcome there.