No Deal is the only Deal that will gain our Freedom , Brexit Talks put on Hold

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: gortex
Fair play to the government for standing their (our) ground as the EU maintain their demand for access to our fisheries and subservience to their rules post Brexit.

Lord Frost and Mr Barnier blamed the break-down in the talks on "significant divergences on level playing field, governance, and fisheries".
The level playing field refers to state subsidies and standards: the EU fears that Britain could become a low-regulation economic rival, cutting standards and heavily subsidising its industries.

Britain, meanwhile, wants to "take back control" from Brussels and set its own economic policies.
news.sky.com...

The EU want us as their Vassal state and don't seem to understand that we want freedom from their Superstate and control over our future , Emmanuel Macron has threatened to Veto any deal that doesn't meet with his (and his fishermen's) approval so the chances of a deal succeeding even if it is reached seem slim , the EU seem set to cut off their nose to spite their face.

This is Britain , we will prevail.

Sometimes when I read about the lag in Brexit, it reminds me of negotiating with your spouse after you have filed for divorce.

It’s exactly like that.

No deal, no alimony for Europe.

Pretty much what I think, No deal, see ya wouldn't want to be ya.

a reply to: Peeple

But your phantastic diplomats agreed to it.
You just gonna love what else they agreed to.
Not with the EU, but in regards to your "problem"
incompetence

Really ?

Am I right in thinking you're French ?

a reply to: gortex

I'm whatever you want me to be, Honey.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: gortex

Last time you said that Britain shrunk from where the sun always shines to one small island.
Are you sure Britain will prevail?

given the EU needs financially stable and good economic resources (cash) to float most of their socialistic "dead beat" countries (like Greece and they sure as hell aint the only one) or the whole EU concept falls apart...

yea think they will do just fine.

its the EU that is teetering on financial collapse

LETS BE HONEST

the real economic viability of the EU depends on a relatively small amount of nations (like UK) that provide most of the money to keep it working.

if one succeeds in leaving the EU the rest of the ones they rely on are gonna (if not already) asking "why are we footing the bill for everyone else ". =Then they will tell the EU to "piss off" and leave as well

then your left with a group of (sorry if this offends someone) socialistic , financially irresponsible, non democratic governments, or combination thereof that cant support itself.

here in the states we have similar situations

we have states like CA that scream they get back less then they give the government but when suggested then they keep their money and get NO GOVERNMENT AID OF ANY KIND scream bloody murder ..

or like in IL when the same situation with chicago/ cook county .

shows they REALLY ARE LYING and getting more than they are giving.

hang in there UK

you are to PROTECT YOUR PEOPLE INTERESTS, NOT THE EU

scrounger

England made it through it's "darkest days" with pure stubbornness and pride in their country.
Y'all can make it through this easier , as long as that same stance is still there.
It is time for the globalization plans to fail.
And they are failing.

Stand fast and show no quarter.

a reply to: gortex

Post Brexit Trade deals already signed

All of which make a combined percentage of how much trade with the UK? You're talking about the likes of Morocco and Kosovo which on miniscule. Just to give you an example of how irrelevant those trade deals are:

the UK exports more to the Republic of Ireland than to all of the Brics countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) combined

a reply to: Gothmog

England made it through it's "darkest days" with pure stubbornness and pride in their country.

Anybody who claims Britain won't survive a no-deal are clueless. What we can be certain of is how disadvantaged the UK would be while trying to negotiate trade deals alone with the world's biggest trading blocs (EU, US, China) which make up about 2 thirds of the UK's total exports. Britain isn't an empire anymore, this kind of mindset needs to be done with. She's in a different world nowadays. It's not going to be as straightforward. Will she still be fine and wealthy, yes, but weakened nevertheless.

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: Gothmog

England made it through it's "darkest days" with pure stubbornness and pride in their country.

Anybody who claims Britain won't survive a no-deal are clueless. What we can be certain of is how disadvantaged the UK would be while trying to negotiate trade deals alone with the world's biggest trading blocs (EU, US, China) which make up about 2 thirds of the UK's total exports. Britain isn't an empire anymore, this kind of mindset needs to be done with. She's in a different world nowadays. It's not going to be as straightforward. Will she still be fine and wealthy, yes, but weakened nevertheless.

They have been through a lot tougher in their long history.
And , as always , one should learn history to not appear ignorant.
They did not go into the EU voluntarily .
They were "volunteered".
The UK was doing just fine before then.
The EU ?
Not so much (and they still are not)

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: Gothmog

England made it through it's "darkest days" with pure stubbornness and pride in their country.

Anybody who claims Britain won't survive a no-deal are clueless. What we can be certain of is how disadvantaged the UK would be while trying to negotiate trade deals alone with the world's biggest trading blocs (EU, US, China) which make up about 2 thirds of the UK's total exports. Britain isn't an empire anymore, this kind of mindset needs to be done with. She's in a different world nowadays. It's not going to be as straightforward. Will she still be fine and wealthy, yes, but weakened nevertheless.

The EU needed Britain more than Britain needed the EU. Britain was weakened by being part of the EU. Not to use a relationship example but it does apply, it's like when a good happy go lucky person is hitched up to someone who isn't, they have a tendency to drag that happy person down. The EU might be great for most of the nations but it wasn't for Britain if it were would they even been able to suggest leaving much less get the vote. LOL unless if they used Dominion all bets are off.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

I respectfully submit that the EU reaction to UK leaving throws your whole idea out the window

look at it this way

if the UK would be making out worse that the EU with them leaving then their reactions and actions taken are a funny way to handle it

all they would LOGICALLY need to do is let them leave and sit back to watch the economic failures of the UK for it.

then offer them a great deal for EU but crappy for UK to let them come crawling back

or in american slang let them have enough rope to hang themselves.

but instead the EU is acting like a spoiled brat realizing their parents have cut them off.

they have been fighting tooth and nail on the legal front to try to stop them / reverse their decision
they have been trying to fight them economically to hurt them .
lastly but not least pumping alot of money , time , and PR to try to undermine the leaving EU movement and support the staying in movement.

in common sense fighting to keep them because it is in their best financial interests (more likely to maintain their viability) to keep them .

scrounger

originally posted by: Whodathunkdatcheese
Even the WTO says leaving on WTO terms is a bad idea.

I would actually like you to show where this has been officially said, or is it the echo chamber speaking? While the WTO terms add barriers (notably standardised tariffs) they do not inhibit trade. Trade between the UK and the EU will continue with a WTO arrangement or not. Over time, if WTO persisted then the EU’s gigantic trade surplus with the UK will be significantly impacted and they will be less able to adjust due to the way they protect their Single Market, which is basically protectionism.

Fishing rights is a red herring …

Ah, the simplification of the fisheries problem.

The question here is whether the UK should be able to dictate the terms of access to UK waters, or whether the EU should dictate the terms of UK’s access to their own waters. The fact that the EU are making such a point over this should indicate their obsessiveness around finding some way to control UKs sovereignty. This has never been about stopping EU fishing fleets access to UK watres, more abou the UK agreeing the terms, rather than having the terms imposed.

It is a totally unreasonable demand for the UK to cede control of their marine waters to a foreign entity i.e. the undemocratic bureaucracy that is the EU. And those who think it is have the plot, as far as I am concerned.

Besides, fishing communities need to be able to re-grow their industries and the UK must (and will) return UK waters to environmental sustainability. The EU’s Common Fisheries Policy has been catastrophic for the marine environment and the sooner it is binned the better.

I'm old enough to remember when we were "The Sick Man of Europe". Looks like we're heading that way again.

Oh, I don’t know. The doom and gloom people were predicting five years ago has not come to pass as they predicted, so I do not hold with these continued unsubstantiated predictions. Miserable people are always miserable in my experience.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

All of which make a combined percentage of how much trade with the UK? You're talking about the likes of Morocco and Kosovo which on miniscule.Just to give you an example of how irrelevant those trade deals are

You say "Britain will still be at the starting block with only Japan as a sign off so far" so I list a number of countries we have signed trade deals with but still you seem intent on talking us down , trade volumes are not a static thing and as a free independent nation it's up to us to increase them , other trade agreement are in the works and will be signed in the coming months.

We are one country ruled by one government rather than many countries ruled by many governments under one banner each with their own needs and wants dictating direction of travel , that gives us the freedom to tailor our deals as we see fit to get the most out of the agreement we make , it also saves us the billions we hand out to the EU every year.

The road ahead may not be a smooth one but it's a road worth traveling to regain our Sovereignty from a self interested , wasteful and sometimes corrupt Union , we joined an economic community in 1973 not an EU Super State.

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
...the UK exports more to the Republic of Ireland than to all of the Brics countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) combined

Um. I wonder why this is the case. Now, could it be:

1. The RoI is right on the doorstep of the UK so there is convenience, alongside a shared history, cultural links, a shared language and a range of UK-RoI agreements, such as the Common Travel Area. The RoI-UK trade dependences pre-date the EU.

2. The EU has been unable and unwilling to create worthwhile trade agreements with India, China and other places, thus stifled mutually beneficial trading relationships? The EU is not a body which promotes free trade because it focusses on protectionism.

Take a longer view.

- In a decade, the UK’s trade with the RoI will be fine and healthy. The UK’s trade with the rest of the world will have improved because barriers to trade will be easier to address on a country to country basis, with deals that are country relevant.
- In a decade, the EU will not have a free trade agreement with India, of that you can be sure. I think it is very likely the UK will have trade agreement with India.

If there is one thing to take away from the Brexit trade negotiations, it is this. The EU have no clue how to deal with other nations, and are unrepresentative of the citizenry they purport to serve.

Sky news are reporting that the call between Boris Johnson and Ursula von der Leyen has ended with von der Leyen due to make a televised statement shortly.

I assume we're headed for a No Deal Brexit.

Edit
No agreement has been reached but the talks will go on.

I had a phone call with @BorisJohnson on the EU-UK negotiations.

Differences remain. No agreement feasible if these are not resolved. Chief negotiators will reconvene tomorrow. We will speak again on Monday.
twitter.com...

Our fishing industry has been fu***d for years, the only way they made a profit was raiding other countries waters, or have you forgot the "Cod Wars". So that's as been said a red herring.
Now the Irish border policy.
The UK wants a soft border for one reason only (and the EU knows this), a free back door into the EU. The Republic of Ireland exports nearly 60% of it's goods to the EU, the Republic imports just over 60% from the UK. Now you do the maths on that one.
Now the biggie that's probably impacted all of you but you don't want to see it.
Farmers and landowners were one of the largest recipients of EU money. Grow for money, not for food, set aside, grow useless crops, all of these the farmers were compensated handsomely from the EU. Or how do you think they afforded those £100,000 harvesters or the £90,000 Range Rovers. But you say, the farmers were one of the ones fighting for Brexit.
The reason for that is these bast****s in power changed the law (which, I bet none of you have addressed) to buy them off.
Now no matter where you live in the country I'll bet there are houses being thrown up all around you, impacting your local economy (no new surgeries, no new schools, no road upgrades, etc, etc. just houses). All of a sudden they are allowed to build on green belt and flood plains, prime farming land. That has been taboo for hundreds of years, SO WHY.
Easy, agricultural land about £8,000 an acre, whoops, building land about £400,000 an acre.
But the biggest thing is the UK population as a whole was and is the most taxed nation in the world and they didn't want a socialist EU pointing that out to the people.

a reply to: Gothmog

They have been through a lot tougher in their long history.

Times have changed. We're no longer a big world with untouched cultures and an abundance of land. You cannot compare Britain of the past to the world she finds herself in today.

Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment.

They did not go into the EU voluntarily .

The UK first applied to join the EU in 1961. This application was vetoed by the French government in 1963 and a second application was vetoed, again by the French, in 1967. It was only in 1969 that the green light was given to negotiations for British membership, with talks starting in 1970. The UK joined the European Economic Community (as it then was) on 1 January 1973, alongside Denmark and Ireland.

Source

a reply to: putnam6

The EU needed Britain more than Britain needed the EU.

Based on your feelz again? There seems to be a pattern here of posters just making claims left right and center with nothing other than feelz.

Which party has been purposefully dragging out this process?

The UK Government requested 3 extensions to article 50 due to their uncertainties in negotiations with the EU

The fact of the matter is, the British government has been dragging out this process. They's done so willingly. It's not the EU's obligation to make a suitable deal. The UK decided to leave, it's on them to just do so, yet here we are 4 years later. But you tell me it's the EU in need of the UK moreso? Actions speak louder than feelz.

a reply to: gortex

You say "Britain will still be at the starting block with only Japan as a sign off so far" so I list a number of countries we have signed trade deals

And as part of the debate, I highlighted how irrelevant those deals were in the grand scheme of things. And?

I'll reiterate again, Britain trades more with Ireland alone than with the BRIC countries combined. Countries are anchored.

with but still you seem intent on talking us down ,

And you seem overly sensitive. I always took you Brits for logical folk, unlike us emotional and passionate Americans? Speak about the global realities does not automatically equate to 'talking a country down'. The global stage isn't a joke. China is not going to care about whether or not Britain is sensitive about her standing in the world. They'll just pounce on any sense of vulnerability, they'll take advantage. So please spare me your national defensiveness, this is the real world.

We are one country ruled by one government rather than many countries ruled by many governments under one banner

The world is so interconnected today it would be near impossible for any global player to avoid some sort of foreign influence:

UK told to accept US food standards, including chlorination and GM, in any trade deal

And we're just talking about the US here, your closest ally. That one example that takes away from your argument.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

And you seem overly sensitive. I always took you Brits for logical folk, unlike us emotional and passionate Americans?

Not sensitive I've listened to 4 years of remainers talking us down and watched as their predictions failed to materialise , the logical move was / is to leave the EU which we do at the end of the month , deal or no deal.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

Times have changed. We're no longer a big world with untouched cultures and an abundance of land.

One of the most ignorant statements that can be stated as fact.
Research , it's your friend.
Hint : if you brought every single person in the world together and placed them in the State of Texas , everyone would have a 6" space around them . One State in the US.

We are not debating who is "holding" what back .
Your statement was something to the effect it would be bad for the UK to leave.
I answered with a definitive answer and one that invoked history.
You are just deflecting now as you have been corrected.

It's looking ever more likely that a deal will not be reached before the deadline with the same sticking points that have existed throughout negotiations still remaining ,seems the EU's idea of comprimise consists of us giving and them taking.

Boris Johnson has said he hopes the "power of sweet reason" will allow the UK and EU to reach a post-Brexit trade deal this week.

The prime minister is to meet European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen in Brussels in the coming days, as the deadline for agreement nears.

He told the BBC the situation was "very tricky" but "hope springs eternal".

The two sides still disagree on fishing rights, business competition rules and how any deal would be enforced.
www.bbc.co.uk...

Th EU have shown throughout this process they do not possess the "power of sweet reason" , so be it.
Au revoir.
Abschied.
Adiós.
Addio.
Goodbye , Your loss is our gain.

a reply to: gortex

Th EU have shown throughout this process they do not possess the "power of sweet reason"

Isn't this supposed to be good news for Brexiteers? They're getting a hard Brexit without any commitment or compromise to autonomy. And?