Interview With a REAL Area 51 Worker - TD Barnes

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: FosterVS
Is verified USAF officer & Area 51 employee David Freehoff also lying? He confirmed Bob's story about a blacked out bus heading South with a select group of employees to S-4 (confirmed by name)

Where did you get this? Corbell? The first hit Googling that name is something Corbell posted about this guy, who apparently was on Ancient Aliens. I pretty much instantly debunk anyone who was on Ancient Aliens ("expert miners" included). A quote from a comment below Corbell's comment: "Pilot David Freehoff is a "witness" to nothing pertinent -- he left Area 51 at least 3 years before Lazar claimed to have been there. All know there is a "Site 4," but it is a radar installation and nowhere near Papoose Lake, where Lazar put the saucers."

Even with pictures that show water eroded channels cut into a hillside, that appear on all the hills around it as well

Woah there, that isn't accurate at all. The anomaly doesn't appear anywhere else in the referenced source image or in any other that I can find. I know because I have been scouring non-GE imagery for months trying to debunk/discredit these findings. Show me where you're talking about

Give me a link to the pictures you refer to, I will have a look at them. It isn't going to change my mind at all about Lazar.

And water absolutely does not start halfway up a hillside and end part way down it. Does the water run horizontally also? And those features are verifiably *not* present on any other hillside near Groom/Papoose lake or around the NTS. Can you take a screen shot and show me where on NASA's original source image or my edited version that you're referencing?

I may not have hiked the "S-4 Hill" near Papoose Dry Lake, but I have hiked many other similar hills in that area for many years. They are all cut with numerous deep water channels from the flash floods they get there.

I am serious, I have been looking for evidence to debunk the photo for months now. Haven't found any. If you can, now is your chance to put this whole image business to rest!

Or a goat trail that sort-of/kind-of goes near the area. The desert takes forever to heal, and a lot of those trails were trails cut in by pioneers or prospectors with covered wagons.

Again, give me a link to the pictures. I have a few photo analysis people I can count as acquaintances.

Not true. Why aren't these "goat trails" visible elsewhere? What is shown are Not goat trails. Those aren't resolvable from ~200 miles up. Look at the upper limit of satellite imaging resolution (real satellite imaging) and you'll see that's not possible. Although I am sure such trails are near by, the 2X2 tracks of a vehicle are plainly visible running near and directly around the site Bob labeled S-4. You see plenty of tire tracks but zero foot prints/animal tracks/etc because despite the propaganda there is no satellite that can read the print on your newspaper from space or anywhere near that level of detail.

The Nevada desert is covered in "goat"/wagon trails. I have spent many hours riding them on my quad. So if I read you correctly, these goat/wagon trails show up on Google Earth imagery, but these "roads" the "buses with blacked out windows" drive/drove on aren't "resolvable"?

Again, how did he know this location would just so happen to have these anomalies? For an area with no activity, there sure are an awful lot of roads leading to and from it. And what is the point of that anyhow? NTS employees aren't allowed at Groom and Groom employees have no reason to go to NTS. Or Papoose, if the chorus is to be believed.

Honestly? He didn't, and they don't. He picked a spot he heard about, and named it after a facility he heard about. Like maybe here?

Please convince me otherwise.

Lest we not forget this all could have been disproven on day 1 if the government would have simply taken photos close-up of the "non-restricted" "non secret" area and countered Bob's story? I suppose they just enjoy giving the public the millionth +1 reason not to trust them and giving us the "false" perception that they really are all just liars, crooks and thieves. One issue at a time though, why don't we start with the included image and move on to roads next? Then how about we look at the witnesses, individually, and determine their credibility.

Maybe because a) they don't care about Lazar and his kooky stories, or b) they have better things to do

a reply to: JBurns

Hi JBurns, not sure if you are aware or not but ATS members FosterVS along with Shadowhawk and Gariac ( with honorable mention to Zaphod )aren’t just keyboard warrior types parroting YouTube rumors about Groom.

He has spent a lot of time over the last few years camping places like freedom ridge and poking around the Nevada desert between Groom lake and Tonapah.

I’m not suggesting his opinions are gospel, healthy skepticism of random internet posters should always be questioned but his perspective is often first hand.

If you haven’t already click on the Facebook link to the area51 riders in his signature, he’s got some good stuff.

I am sure Bob Lazar rightly thought that how good the food was at S-4 was unimportant compared to the work he was doing there.

According to the video interview, David Fruehauf (this is the actual spelling in case anyone is interested) never claimed to have any firsthand knowledge of Bob Lazar's claims. He just says he believes them because it sounds plausible to him.

Fruehauf first went to Area 51 in 1979 as an employee of Flight Systems Incorporated (FSI). Initially, he supported the SENIOR PROM program but apparently stayed through the early F-117A developmental testing. He left in 1985, which has been pointed out as being prior to the whole Lazar thing.

Fruehauf claimed to see other personnel board a bus to unknown parts of the test range. He never asserted that they were working on flying saucers. In fact, upon arrival via Janet flight, many Area 51 employees are dispersed to remote parts of the range including the Site 4 radar/threat system test areas. Some of theses systems are located in the general vicinity of Papoose Dry Lake.

While we are on that topic, Lazar claimed that camouflaged hangars had been built into a hillside adjured to Papoose Lake. There is no such hillside with direct access to the lakebed. The hills are further back, upslope from an alluvial fan of sand, gravel, and rocks washed down from the mountains. It would be extremely difficult to construct subterranean hangars in this material and even more difficult to hide the results. Visual camouflage would be challenging in and of itself, much less trying to hide the facility from multispectral scanners.

So far, I have seen nothing in any aerial or satellite image to suggest that Lazar was in any way truthful.

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect
I am sure Bob Lazar rightly thought that how good the food was at S-4 was unimportant compared to the work he was doing there.

That’s a good point,

Bob also didn’t mention the quality of the food at the brothel he was operating during the same time he was working on reverse engineering extraterrestrial vehicles for the U.S. Government.

To my knowledge he has also never commented on the food at the Clark County detention facility when he was charged with aiding and abetting a prostitution ring or after his conviction when he plead guilty to felony pandering charges.

Makes sense, I’d say that looks like a ringer....

a reply to: Drunkenparrot

I appreciate the heads up, but yes I am aware. Actually I am quite the fan of his show, and enjoy seeing his exploration. Same with gariac, Shadow and so many others, truly one of a kind pictures/stories and so on

In no way do I want to cast shade or doubt on their work and great contributions here and elsewhere on this subject!

In my book they are all top notch researchers, and although like you I do not take anyone's word as gospel, when Foster (for example) relates his experiences out there to subjects here my ears perk up and I am inclined to listen closely

In this limited instance, I just can't ignore these anomalies. I have to believe they dismissed my evidence outright, without even examining I, and without realizing it has never been seen anywhere before ATS. This is new evidence worthy of review! I hope experts like the folks you listed and others will look at the images

On my own analysis, I am unable to find another example in the images of the anomalies I highlighted. I am not an expert, however, and would love to be debunked

Of course even if the evidence does indicate a facility (Or merely oddity, even) it will stop short of proving Lazar's story although admittedly I do find him credible.

Again, I genuinely appreciate your reply, your contributions and any help you or the others here could offer on these

a reply to: FosterVS

Thanks for the reply FosterVS

Again I want to reiterate I am an admirer of your work, and I do not want to give the false impression I want to cast doubt on any of that. I think that collaboration, concerted analysis and plenty of data is always the way forward including here

In this case, the best I can offer is some new data points, non-expert analysis and general observations

Here is the unedited version of my blue red image (I have 4 NASA images total, at least 2 have never been looked at before here on ATS):
eol.jsc.nasa.gov...

∆This is by far the highest resolution of the 4

files.abovetopsecret.com...

∆This is my edited version, only color/contrast amd those type settings were used to highlight the area of interest

I did indeed see Captain Freehoff on Ancient Aliens, but I do not feel that should be used to impugn his credibility. In this specific instance, he does confirm the group heading to S-4 (not including Lazar while he was there) boarded the bus and headed South while he and others headed North to the red hat hangars

I am aware of the Site Four radar installation up North, but this is not what Freehoff stated. Although he did say he had no clue what went on down there. This wouldn't be the first time they used the same or very similar names to mislead/provide deniability/etc

I will repost the other three images as well. If you have imagery people that would be excellent! If this can be debunked I would be the first to disavow my previous beliefs and adjust them to match the facts

I have no interest in redeeming Lazar, and only want to know the truth. I also realize that *if* there is a facility at Papoose it stop far shy of vindicating Lazar or confirming anything about saucers

Again Foster thank you for your contributions to this area of study, as well as any analysis on this evidence. Whether it's debunked or appears to merritt further research, I will rest easy knowing a credible, reliable and capable investigator/researcher is on the case

Anyone who would claim to work on secret military projects in underground bases, which he wished to speak about in public, escaping it somehow, later on, without harm, and tells us about aliens working with humans there, on secret projects!

Some sort of 'anti-gravity' technologies are being developed there, supposedly! All sorts of things, beyond that!


Saying 'gravity' is somehow involved in it, immediately makes it pure BS, of course. But who cares, it's all good!

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: FosterVS

Thanks for the reply FosterVS

Again I want to reiterate I am an admirer of your work, and I do not want to give the false impression I want to cast doubt on any of that. I think that collaboration, concerted analysis and plenty of data is always the way forward including here

My Youtube channel doesn't have much, if anything, to do with the Lazar debate. I have been closely following Lazar since he appeared on the scene back in the day, like many other people have. My opinions are based on that, and are no more or less valid than anyone else.

In this case, the best I can offer is some new data points, non-expert analysis and general observations
Here is the unedited version of my blue red image (I have 4 NASA images total, at least 2 have never been looked at before here on ATS):
eol.jsc.nasa.gov...
This is by far the highest resolution of the 4
files.abovetopsecret.com...
This is my edited version, only color/contrast amd those type settings were used to highlight the area of interest

I will look at those images.

I did indeed see Captain Freehoff on Ancient Aliens, but I do not feel that should be used to impugn his credibility. In this specific instance, he does confirm the group heading to S-4 (not including Lazar while he was there) boarded the bus and headed South while he and others headed North to the red hat hangars

Most of the "guests" on that show either tend towards the UFO convention circuit talking heads, or outright phonies. I shouldn't paint Mr. Freehoff with the same brush, however it would be hard for me to take him seriously. I will make an effort to find that episode and watch his segment.

The Janet "terminal" is located, as you probably know, about midway of the facilities at Area 51. So "south" could mean any of the southern half of the facilities. And I have no doubt they would have a bus or some other transport from the terminal to the southern facilities.

I am aware of the Site Four radar installation up North, but this is not what Freehoff stated. Although he did say he had no clue what went on down there. This wouldn't be the first time they used the same or very similar names to mislead/provide deniability/etc
I will repost the other three images as well. If you have imagery people that would be excellent! If this can be debunked I would be the first to disavow my previous beliefs and adjust them to match the facts
I have no interest in redeeming Lazar, and only want to know the truth. I also realize that *if* there is a facility at Papoose it stop far shy of vindicating Lazar or confirming anything about saucers

Again Foster thank you for your contributions to this area of study, as well as any analysis on this evidence. Whether it's debunked or appears to merritt further research, I will rest easy knowing a credible, reliable and capable investigator/researcher is on the case

Please. I have not contributed much of anything, other than my opinion, to this "area of study". I defer to people like Peter Merlin to all things Area 51 related. His word is gospel IMO. Gary/Gariac as well.

One of the true passionate people about this subject I am acquainted with is Dan Benkert. He has been debunking Lazar for years, and has a number of videos on the subject, and contributed to articles such as this one:
checktheevidencecom.ipage.com...
Perhaps he might jump into this thread with his opinions, based on real research.
ETA: Please check out this website as well
boblazardebunked.com...

originally posted by: Drunkenparrot
a reply to: JBurns
Hi JBurns, not sure if you are aware or not but ATS members FosterVS along with Shadowhawk and Gariac ( with honorable mention to Zaphod) aren’t just keyboard warrior types parroting YouTube rumors about Groom. He has spent a lot of time over the last few years camping places like freedom ridge and poking around the Nevada desert between Groom lake and Tonapah. I’m not suggesting his opinions are gospel, healthy skepticism of random internet posters should always be questioned but his perspective is often first hand. If you haven’t already click on the Facebook link to the area51 riders in his signature, he’s got some good stuff.

Thanks for the shout-out, but I don't really qualify to be on your list. Poking around in the desert really doesn't make me qualified to be in that company. I DO try to do some research for my videos, rather than just parrot nonsense and urban legends I have read on the internet. Like many others I have been living and breathing this stuff since the 90's.

originally posted by: Drunkenparrot

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect
I am sure Bob Lazar rightly thought that how good the food was at S-4 was unimportant compared to the work he was doing there.

That’s a good point,
Bob also didn’t mention the quality of the food at the brothel he was operating during the same time he was working on reverse engineering extraterrestrial vehicles for the U.S. Government.

To my knowledge he has also never commented on the food at the Clark County detention facility when he was charged with aiding and abetting a prostitution ring or after his conviction when he plead guilty to felony pandering charges.

Makes sense, I’d say that looks like a ringer....

Oof. All good points, but ouch...
But to add to this - they typically don't give clearances to people who are in debt up to their eyeballs, or going through bankruptcy. Kind of disqualifies them, due to possibilities of spying for profit.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: FosterVS
Here is the unedited version of my blue red image (I have 4 NASA images total, at least 2 have never been looked at before here on ATS):
eol.jsc.nasa.gov...

Please tell me what I am missing. The image you linked to is 4288 x 2929 pixels. I did a comparison of a land feature on that image, and the same spot on Google Earth, using the ruler tool to measure it. With some simple math I come up with 17 ft. per pixel.

I don't pretend to be a photo analyst, but it seems to me that resolution is virtually useless to show anything but major features.

^Photo referenced in my first sentence

I am convinced Bob Lazar is telling the truth about S-4 Papoose Lake folks, and by time we're done with these image dumps I believe you will be too.

Wanted to give everybody a chance to look at the imagery provided before part 2 of the image dump. The image included above depicts anomalous indentations in the jag indicated by Lazar, but is actually the least impressive I am holding by far.

I have tried uploading these much larger images to ATS, but don't have the upload space. Any suggestions?

I will show you a definitive man-made rectangular opening along with one that depicts the actual topography of the "alluvial plain" at Papoose lake.

These images are all sourced from official .gov servers.

Here is a low res screen capture of the rectangular tunnel/opening, simply because I can't figure out how to host 20+ MB images. Another greatly reduced quality image included shows the actual topography of the jag near S-4. These are true satellite images, not the GE orthorectified hybrid overlapping crap peddled elsewhere

Again I have much higher quality (zoomable!) images available but can't upload anything larger than these for the time being. Working on a work around now.

I must also add, these images won't be the last. Stay tuned


files.abovetopsecret.com...

(Confirmation from second satellite image different time/date/sensor: files.abovetopsecret.com...)


files.abovetopsecret.com...

*The rectangular opening is indeed shown (poorly) on GE. However, it is not in the correct location (topo/geo wise) on GE. Multiple satellite images taken at different times (from different satellites, in fact) show this same feature. It is not a defect or image ghost, which satellite imagery largely does not suffer from (unlike GE material)

Here are a few more, drip drip drip. I apologize for the slow and selective release of information, but I am building to proving my case. Stay tuned, I think even the deniers will be shocked by the conclusion of this process.

Make sure to take a look at these above first: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Keep in mind, these are all extremely shrunk/reduced quality images to facilitate upload to ATS. Full resolution are available and I am still looking for a host.


^^First time the satellite acquired an image at a low enough enough to see the door outlines


^^Another great view, high angle but shows the indendations/features well along with the rectangular tunnel/door opening (door/tunnel reference photo: files.abovetopsecret.com...)





Unrelated to S-4 Papoose Lake but found this really great image of Area 19 and Gold flat (cactus flat?). Shared for those interested in this specific area



^^Area 19/ XXX flat shown in Winter time (can help show uniform features in some cases)

*These are ALL true satellite images from the NASA.gov domain. None are Google Earth composites and (thanks to archive.org of the .gov source) are provably not tampered with in any way. In a few places I have drawn boxes or arrows to highlight features, but the main high resolution photos (some are 20MB+ in size) are completely unmodified

originally posted by: JBurns
Keep in mind, these are all extremely shrunk/reduced quality images to facilitate upload to ATS. Full resolution are available and I am still looking for a host.

www.dropbox.com... works good for storing/sharing files, including images.

a reply to: FosterVS

Thanks Foster Had never considered the Cloud before but I see now it works a lot like FTP only a lot easier

Pictures forthcoming. Lots of organizing to do, might not be tonight but they will be up in less than a day

Didn't want to hijack Foster's thread, so release #3 is here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I expect 1-2 more total.

it would be great to make subtitles in European languages.