SCI/TECH: Super Volcano Will Threaten Civilization

A volcanic super-eruption will chill the planet and threaten human civilization, announces one of this morning's MSN headlines. Such eruptions apparently occur "at least every 100,000 years," and will happen again "sooner or later" warned British scientists yesterday. Such an eruption could destroy a continent, devastate agriculture, disrupt food supplies and cause mass starvation throughout the world. "These effects could be sufficiently severe to threaten the fabric of civilization." The report has electrified conspiracy theorists who have been tracking earth changes.






Numerous threads here at ATS focus on earth changes, and many members say we are not being told the truth. However, authorities say science is not sufficiently advanced to accurately predict earth change timetables.

In fact, the most significant evidence of pre-knowledge is not scientific, but rather economic. Some observers note the planetary "looting" going on, and suggest that the rich are entrenching in preparation for an expected catastrophe, unknown to the public.

ATS boasts hundreds, if not thousands of threads on earth changes and attendant theories: mainstream, scientific and conspiratorial. Last week, fretling posted two news stories about volcanic activity in Mount St. Helen's; this week, Banshee posted a third update.

Mt. St. Helens Continues with Increased Activity
Mount Saint Helens Emitting Visible Plumes
Mount St. Helens Rumbles to Life, Lava Flowing



A few weeks prior to the Asia tsunami, FredT reported a worldwide seismic event.

Worldwide Seismic Event At 2300 Local Time



Other ATS members have focused on the ability of human activities to effect the earth's stability; some on the potential impacts of planetary alignments; others on the magnetosphere, the coming pole shift or the earth's rotation. Nothing conclusive has been found or determined.

Most likely though, where's there's smoke there's fire. Or maybe, lava. There are numerous unknowns. Only one thing's certain: the current administration's budget priorities do not include helping ordinary citizens to deal with significant catastrophes, anticipated or not.




Here is a very quick incomplete overview of ATS threads on earth changes.

Civilization's Next Challenge - Super Volcanos

Super Volcano Will Challenge Civilization, Geologists Warn

Cascades - Disturbing Activity at St Helens & Rainier!!

Earth Rotation rate & Quake

Planetary Alignment Can Devastate the World in Few Months

Earth wobble?

Earth Changes

All these hurrican's - has someone finally developed a weather weapon?




Related News Links:
www.livescience.com

Excellent and interesting topic! The last supervolcanic eruption was about 75000 years ago in Sumatra, so we could be due another one very soon (in geological terms, at least!). When it happens, it will be quite something, and a great challenge for those who will face it, whether its us or future generations.

I know that the BBC are making a docu-drama about supervolcanoes; here's the link to the relevant page.

The BBC has a couple of other pages on the subject, which i found while searching for the above article:
BBC - Supervolcanoes
BBC - Supervolvanoes could cause global freeze

Humans are stubborn species allmost like cockroaches, it think it will take more than some supervolcanoe, one man and a woman left alive is all it takes.....

Still I think mega-engineering would be able to do something to contain some effects of a supervolcanoe. would be a big pricetag though, wich politician wants
to pay this, or rather gambles the eruption happens in the next election ?

Originally posted by Countermeasures
Humans are stubborn species allmost like cockroaches, it think it will take more than some supervolcanoe

I agree. Humans are too clever to let nature destroy their existence. We've successfully battled nature many times in our existence from the Bubonic plaque, Monster Tsunamis, all the way down to extremely devastating earthquakes. Nature my have the power, but we have the infinite ability to invent new and better technology to subdue mother earth.

Very impressed sofi

it is great to have someone who can see the "whole picture"
and a grand picture it is also... (although the title doesn't encompass the whole scene)

with so many elements that point to the answer, it is hard not to get a little paranoid about what our leaders know that we don't...

the scientists dissapearing, the worlds health decline, the obvious climatic changes, upcoming pole reversal...
and even the rumors of secret mars and moon bases that have been built by coordinated efforts of the superpowers. (which i have never considered before now).

I think we can start to assume some things, to narrow down the possiblilities

All would indicate that what is happening is something that will rock our world literally...
Comet? nahhhh we could blast it...
plague? possible... but effects could be moderated by quarantine
breakdown of the worlds climate? could be...
super caldera volcano? possible, but could they know about it before hand with certainty?
switching of the poles? possible, the latest scientific data is suspicious... it says that we would NOT be instantly destroyed by deadly solar radiation via the "solar wind turbulence" that would swirl around the world long enough to protect us... that explaination seems too much like a "don't look behind the curtain" answer.

Originally posted by Countermeasures
would be a big pricetag though, wich politician wants to pay this, or rather gambles the eruption happens in the next election ?

Politics and science.

Anyway, Krakatoa 1883 is a good example of the power of nature.

The 1883 eruption ejected more than six cubic miles (25 cubic kilometres) of rock, ash and pumice, and generated the loudest sound ever recorded by human beings - the cataclysmic explosion was distinctly heard as far away as Alice Springs in Australia, and Rodriguez near Mauritius. 165 villages were devastated, 36,417 people died and uncountable thousands were injured by the eruption, mostly in the tsunami which followed the biggest explosion.

The 1883 eruption destroyed two-thirds of the pre-existing island of Krakatoa. New eruptions at the volcano since 1927 have built a new island, called Anak Krakatau (son of Krakatoa).

[edit on 9-3-2005 by sanctum]

Originally posted by sanctum

Anyway, Krakatoa 1883 is a good example of the power of nature.
The 1883 eruption ejected more than six cubic miles (25 cubic kilometres) of rock, ash and pumice, and generated the loudest sound ever recorded by human beings - the cataclysmic explosion was distinctly heard as far away as Alice Springs in Australia, and Rodriguez near Mauritius. 165 villages were devastated, 36,417 people died and uncountable thousands were injured by the eruption, mostly in the tsunami which followed the biggest explosion.

The 1883 eruption destroyed two-thirds of the pre-existing island of Krakatoa. New eruptions at the volcano since 1927 have built a new island, called Anak Krakatau (son of Krakatoa).

If the Caldera under Yellowstone was to blow in a supervolcanic eruption, it would absolutely dwarf the Krakatoa eruption. It is estimated that such an eruption would send approximately 1000 cubic kilometres of debris into the atmosphere, and kill upwards of 1 billion people (data from the links I included in original reply). The power of nature is indeed much greater than we have yet witnessed.


[edit on 9-3-2005 by Paul]

I agree. Yellowstone will be the end of this continent. The question is whether or not Bush will beat Yellowstone to the punch (rimshot).

Anyway, a couple of visuals.



That's a 600 mile radius from the supervolcano.



That's the historic ash fallout area.

We're so screwed.

I saw on ATS that Mount St Helens is making noise again, but that that it is much less severe as 1980, because it hasn't build such a massive cone yet, theoratically one could keep sending back and forth a stream of trucks to move away all the materials the vucanoe brings to the surface to prevent a large cone building up???? but such things require a great amount of planning and money and political goodwill.

If the american government would use halve the money and the effort put in the DOD , surely they could up something with a containment plan to limit some of the effects???

I mean, what is the single biggest threat to the american Way of Life, Osama Bin Laden, or Yellowstone ?


[edit on 9-3-2005 by Countermeasures]

Originally posted by Countermeasures

I mean, what is the single biggest threat to the american Way of Life, Osama Bin Laden, or Yellowstone ?

Hmmm.

Good question Countermeasures.

Great map thelibra. Whew. Looks like me and mine are safe. But what about the rest of you?


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Originally posted by Countermeasures
If the american government would use halve the money and the effort put in the DOD , surely they could up something with a containment plan to limit some of the effects???

A valid question, but sadly, one where the answer is "no".

We're not talking about something like a drought, that has a solution, or intruding biology ruining an ecology, which can be prevented with controls on water-locks and customs.

We're talking about thousands upon thousands of cubic kilometers of superheated gas, that will belch out of the Earth and roll across the landscape, for hundreds of miles in every direction, incinerating everything it its path. This is actually the worst part of a volcano. What kills people is rarely the magma, it's the gas.

After that, there is a combination of massive earthquakes that rip the ground open for tens to hundreds of miles, all in an attempt to let the molten rock flow free, so the tension in the Earth can be relieved.

You can't stop the gasses; the normal temperature range is 800-1200 C, which at the high-end is enough to melt iron. You might, be able to build enough of a barrier out of tungsten (which requires 3399 Celsius to melt), but there is the sheer volume of gas to take into consideration. Considering the size of the Yosemite Caldera, and previous volcanic history, you would need to construct a wall, all the way around, taller than the tallest skyscrapers, that would measure roughly 500 miles in circumference, to contain the gasses long enough to cool. Failing that, I suppose if one could find a way to artificially induce a storm system powerful enough to pull down super-cooled air from the upper atmosphere, onto the caldera, within seconds of the gas eruption, that might stop the gasses and freeze the magma, but then you've just plunged America into the next ice age.

Even then, it only affects the surface, not the deep down problem, which is a pressure imbalance. At best, you stave off the problem long enough for it to erupt outside the known perimeter, where the ground is weak enough to allow it to happen all over again.

The idea that the U.S. Government is somehow responsible for Super-Volcanos erupting, or that they could somehow put a stop to it by cutting 50% of the defense budget, unfortunately just has no valid basis. A volcano is a force of nature, and can no more be stopped than the sun can be stopped from shining.

Originally posted by thelibra

Originally posted by Countermeasures
If the american government would use halve the money and the effort put in the DOD , surely they could up something with a containment plan to limit some of the effects???

A valid question, but sadly, one where the answer is "no".

Great info thelibra.

Scary though. No wonder there's a lid on public discussion.

...I'm thinking that the worldwide seismic activity reported last November was a prelude to the quake that caused the December tsunami. And that the volcanic and earthquake activity going on now might be early warning signs of more to come.

Do you think that there will be an adequate warning before something happens? Like, enough time to evacuate people? ...Is there any point? Would we be looking at a kind of population triage?


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Looks like, according to best estimates, we've got another 10-20 *thousand years* to go.

I worry stuff like this is brought up time and time again as a distraction. So then people vote for some sort of expensive government program, that doesn't have to do anything concrete or produce a measurable result.

I'm beginning to think a nice super eruption would be a good thing.

yay...

my thread was mentioned on this thread

anyway, GREAT job guys...

you have put all the information into one thread...

Originally posted by Phugedaboudet

I worry stuff like this is brought up time and time again as a distraction. So then people vote for some sort of expensive government program, that doesn't have to do anything concrete or produce a measurable result.

Unless you're thinking FEMA or NORTHCOM, I'm not aware of any program that might benefit from earth change scare tactics. ...and NORTHCOM is headquartered in Colorada Springs, under the ash canopy.

I haven't heard of any projections re timing - and don't want to scare-monger - but there has been a LOT of geophysical activity lately. ...and about as much denial, which in itself is fairly telling.

I'm interested in the science here, but the social-political stuff intrigues me too. I know a few crisis issues well - and have seen that the public is NEVER informed. So I doubt public policies would change for this - meaning we're on our own to determine what the situation is, really.

IMO - we can do that without panicking, and by putting our heads together, pooling info and resources.


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I was thinking more of using the pumped up fears to create a new department, much like 9-11 allowed for the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, and then allowed it to become a cash vaccum.

With enough "think of the children!"s and "why isn't the government doing something about it!"s. we'll have a nice "Departemtn of Subterranean Security" or somesuch. Throw tons of cash at it. Have a few "Volcano Czars".
And if there ever is a supereruption, oh well, it didn't work. No one will get fired or lose pension, like the entire intel communuty after 9-11.

Hell, if they're sure no on would survive to criticize their lack of performance, all the better. What few critics survived would be hushed, for being "insensitive to the needs of the victims".

Originally posted by soficrow

Originally posted by Phugedaboudet

I worry stuff like this is brought up time and time again as a distraction. So then people vote for some sort of expensive government program, that doesn't have to do anything concrete or produce a measurable result.

Unless you're thinking FEMA or NORTHCOM, I'm not aware of any program that might benefit from earth change scare tactics. ...and NORTHCOM is headquartered in Colorada Springs, under the ash canopy.

I haven't heard of any projections re timing - and don't want to scare-monger - but there has been a LOT of geophysical activity lately. ...and about as much denial, which in itself is fairly telling.

I'm interested in the science here, but the social-political stuff intrigues me too. I know a few crisis issues well - and have seen that the public is NEVER informed. So I doubt public policies would change for this - meaning we're on our own to determine what the situation is, really.

IMO - we can do that without panicking, and by putting our heads together, pooling info and resources.


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Soficrow, there is an ancient geoglyph with a view of the caldera called Bighorn Medicine Wheel. The geoglyph depicts the caldera surrounded by a network of 'spokes' and 'rims'. A sufficiently advanced civilization could use tunnel boring machinery to 'vent' the magma chamber into a spiderweb of tunnels far below ground level to control, direct or perhaps prevent an explosive outburst. Otherwise, we will be importing horses from Spain again in, oh, say 250,000 years from now.

Originally posted by Phugedaboudet
I was thinking more of using the pumped up fears to create a new department, much like 9-11 allowed for the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, and then allowed it to become a cash vaccum.

With enough "think of the children!"s and "why isn't the government doing something about it!"s. we'll have a nice "Departemtn of Subterranean Security" or somesuch.

Donb't worry about that one, Phug - this is definitely FEMA's department and maybe unfortunately, NORTHCOM's as well (for coordination and oversight, using military personnel). ...These guys will NOT let any new boys onto their block.


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More bull# paranoia with your breakfast...

Even Blair was complaining about the induced anxiety in the media about stuff like this.

It is just getting filed in my "forget about it and get on with life" box now.

Originally posted by Netchicken
More bull# paranoia with your breakfast...

You KNOW better than to read this at breakfast!

...Wait til later in the day when you can think of it as interesting science.


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