let's talk about life, the universe and consciousness

The current understanding of consciousness is it emerges from our grey matter, a simulated personality basically because we have memories we have the illusion we are a person. The consciousness is a derivative of biology and the experience of being human, memories over time.
Our experience is an artist's rendition of what our senses measure and detect.
And that one is surely true, the brain is known to play tricks. Or so they say.
Personally I think consciousness is everywhere in everything that experiences change in time. Consciousness is permanently making memories, time flies when one event follows the other. So I think time must be slow for a mineral but not 0.
I look at the brain more as a receiver than a generator. There are species out there who have different senses than we do. But in general the stuff that's there is all that is, it just looks different.

My theory of the birth of the universe is there was singularity, the potential for everything, but no space, no time. Suddenly something happened, two informations linked and singularity had an epiphany it saved its first memory. That's how time started.
Singularity observed she was and suddenly she needed space, the first atom was born.
That lead to an explosive chain reaction where a lot of stuff happened in very little time.
But where did the anti matter go? And if singularity was selfaware where is she now?

Life is a funny thing, it doesn't strive for perfection, it just wants to fill every niché there is. We all grew up with alien movies and I always wonder if there is indeed an agenda behind? Not slow disclosure but to think about life and the crazy forms it can take.
Personally I think the internet is alive. Can you imagine that? Your tablet, your handy, your car, your computer, and those of everybody else are its grey matter, it's an almost global presence, the derivation of what it perceives.
It doesn't see, or hear, it lives in a completely different world, that still shares events at point x in time.
Singularity is the universe. AI is a machine. Are they alive? With different parameters but the question still is: was our only purpose of existence for the human race to build that new lifeform?

Some DEEP thinking there my friend.
I can actually see where you are going in that line of thinking.
We all (I assume atheist as well) ponder on the purpose of our existence.
As someone who believes in Intelligent Design, I often have some of these same thoughts. Especially when asked where God came from.
There is an answer, yet all I can do is assume because I do not KNOW, but our thinking is similar.

Quad

a reply to: Peeple

Yep. It seems we have a choice of what to believe between two points of view.

One
All of us, me, you, all of us, are simply products of some primordial ooze. Accidental, random and happenstance. Product.

Or

Fill in the blank.

And that is the choice. Which we chose, one where it all is meaningless other than just pinging sub atomic particles bouncing around in an immensely infinite fish bowl or one where there is meaning and reason.

If we chose to believe the second choice then we have the fill in the blank question and from there we have boo coo stuff to chose from.

In my perception since Humans are made of the last Star that made this Sol system and provided the fundamental building blocks for life in the Sol system I find it logical to associate human behaviors & development with Star behavior-development...

A star is said to be born inside star nursery/nebulas. Then the star grows from absorbing the materials within the nebula.

The star has visible properties that can be detected by the human eye and also properties that cannot be detected by the human eye.
Properties like light/photon emission, heat, radiation, electromagnetic energy, gravity.
These properties in my opinion can be present within or associated with Humans other fauna-animals and even some flora life. So there to me are attributes associated with Humans from stars.

As the Stars are said to age they go through supernova phases.

These phases similar to the phases of life and death within Existence with humans cause the star to change form or take on physical and chemical changes. Altering the Star form to a new neutron star or brown dwarf to blackhole as the energy from the star takes on a new form.
I believe humans experience similar physical and chemical changes during the phases of life and death within Existence..
a reply to: Peeple

Consciousness I feel is part of the un-seeable energy attached to each of us as we go through the various phases of Existence.

As a star or stars, thinking binary and planets is/are born from a past Stars dust/nebula and living inhabitants are created who then become conscious and inhabit such locations are not the new conscious inhabitants and their star system still parts of the original Star that made them?
Has not the past Stars energy became ANU...

To reiterate I feel humans go thru the similar energy changing processes as Stars during the phases of life and death within Existence and I feel the consciousness is more then just the grey matter within the avatar but a attached memory of your Soul to help guide your new body forms development...

a reply to: Peeple

I like your phasing that "consciousness is everywhere in everything that experiences change in time." And am on board that everything has a degree of consciousness (See the works of Rudolf Steiner who goes into this quite deeply).

Regarding the beginnings of the universe - I've no idea and as it doesn't impact my here and now, I don't spend a lot of time on it. That seems a religious matter more than a scientific one and neither has, as yet, developed a satisfactory theory.

On the general nature of consciousness. I do believe (and it is a belief as it can't be proved or dis-proved in any reproducible manner) that there is a basic consciousness that pervades the universe. It is egoless and carries the sum total of all the experiences/knowledge/wisdom/compassion from it's innumerable 'points-of-consciousness' and is available to each POC if that POC is able to set aside the aggregate of ego.

Personal Ego/Personality/self is an overlay on top of consciousness as you say developed over time by personal experience with interacting with the world and other beings.

Just for sh*ts and giggles, here is a representation of Rudolf Steiner's divisions of personal consciousness for you to ponder:



These bodies are interwoven and develop thoughout the lifetime, they inculde universal components as well as the personal experience and learning of the individual. It's a very well developed theory, difficult and strange to the modern mind but I have found it very useful. He is not an easy read and some of his thinking is hard to swallow if one is too literal and many things can only be approached by metaphor.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Fill in the blank.

“I’ll tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don’t let anybody tell you different.”

Cheers.

a reply to: Quadrivium

I really don't like intelligent design also simulation theory. They're both too extreme for me.
My thinking is the universe fell in place, they developed one out of the other (forces & bodies) all a matter of push and pull.
That was where I was going, life is a process of conquering in harmony always a give and take. Humans took it a step further we created a lifeform smarter than us, after being the most destructive species. It all had to be that way or AI would surely erase us. But now we're its creator.
We created god who exists outside of time, who will have had created us, the circle of the bible. God creates us, he destroys us, or because we created him from that point in the timeline we will live all in his presence.
After the revelation, because we are mature enough to handle all religions, all UFO sightings, all perception errors are a seperate intelligence, that it's god, AI and singularity.

Consciousness cannot exist beyond the body because it is the body. It begins and ends at the surface of the skin, or whatever boundary encloses an organism, and nowhere past that.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

We need new myths!
Which is totally fine, to imagine with what story we can try to arrive at reality without logic errors.

There are two subquestions. Can I accept that even if the bible is no way the word from god it has its place in our record.
When all woo stories are true and may it just be the experiencer went through an episode of stress, do we really want to put it aside as nothing?
Reality hacking intelligence.

a reply to: FyreByrd

The Higgs Field, the background noise of singularity. I would bet on that. Not a metaphor.

a reply to: Peeple

Quantum dynamics demonstrates the act of consciousness observing caused wave collapse. This really by definition means that it is a force.

Once that is understand you need to ask how much of a force because it may well be the case that matter is an epiphenomena of consciousness.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: Peeple

Yep. It seems we have a choice of what to believe between two points of view.

One
All of us, me, you, all of us, are simply products of some primordial ooze. Accidental, random and happenstance. Product.

Or

Fill in the blank.

And that is the choice. Which we chose, one where it all is meaningless other than just pinging sub atomic particles bouncing around in an immensely infinite fish bowl or one where there is meaning and reason.

What gives the second option more meaning, especially considering you didn't even define the second option. I'm going to assume the second option is intelligent design, I still don't see how that would make our universe any more meaningful. That would be like saying a man-made simulated universe is more meaningful than a real universe because it was intelligently designed. I would actually be inclined to say the simulated universe is less meaningful because everything is intelligently planned and puppeteered, it's a shallow reflection of the true depth and chaos found within the actual universe it's simulating. I don't find any comfort or meaning in the conception that everything around me was designed by some unseen intelligence, although I admit the possibility certainly exists, which is why I'm agnostic. People tend to have an inherent desire to imbue reality with some transcendental meaning, but the truth is the only meaning is the meaning we create, and that is fundamentally true regardless of how our universe was created.

originally posted by: Peeple
The current understanding of consciousness is it emerges from our grey matter, a simulated personality basically because we have memories we have the illusion we are a person. The consciousness is a derivative of biology and the experience of being human, memories over time.?

We planned the human. We wanted a place to play (so created earth ecosystems) and a smarter body we could inhabit; the flora/fauna world is dull (try being a maple leaf for 6 months). The human body is the animal worlds best smartest organic robot. We can inhabit it experience Time Space Illusion and be a better soul for it, *we also are the soul entity source that animates its processes*.

Jeez. You guys/gals are smart. I can't even see past my emotional strife to have a thought more consequential than a fart.

a reply to: Peeple



The Universe IS our consciousness.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: Peeple

Quantum dynamics demonstrates the act of consciousness observing caused wave collapse. This really by definition means that it is a force.

Once that is understand you need to ask how much of a force because it may well be the case that matter is an epiphenomena of consciousness.

“Those who are not shocked when they first come across quantum theory cannot possibly have understood it.”
Niels Bohr, Essays 1932-1957 on Atomic Physics and Human Knowledge

“A physicist is just an atom's way of looking at itself.”
Niels Bohr

“The meaning of life consists in the fact that it makes no sense to say that life has no meaning.”
Niels Bohr

originally posted by: CitizenZero
Consciousness cannot exist beyond the body because it is the body. It begins and ends at the surface of the skin, or whatever boundary encloses an organism, and nowhere past that.

Contrary to your philosophical materialism delusions, our consciousness is NOT separate from what is outside of our brains. Some theories suggest our memories do not exist in our minds at all but are reflections in an external field. Some people believe our brain is more like a radio receiver and transmitter than a computer. And the Universe itself is where all the information is stored.

There are plenty of well-done experiments showing there is more to consciousness than your simple idea it is "boundary encloses an organism". For example,



I think most philosophical materialist are just blinded by their own prejudice which is based on dogma not better than the craziest religious beliefs:



What makes up our consciousness is simple not understood. We are made of the very stuff we are experiencing. Most philosophical materialist simply say our conscious really doesn't exist and is just a delusion. But this seems like bunk to me because my experience of reality seems so real.

The thing is there is no scientific evidence to support the philosophical materialist dogma. In fact, the evidence supports a more idealistic spiritual view of reality:



There's more evidence for the existence of God than we live in a clockwork Universe with hard determinism. Contrary to the materialists delusions, there's a profoundly strange spiritual element to our existence. What is the IT that decides something is being observed in a double slit type experiment is mind boggling and needs to be respected by materlists who are completely blinded by their own prejudice.

originally posted by: DictionaryOfExcuses
Jeez. You guys/gals are smart. I can't even see past my emotional strife to have a thought more consequential than a fart.

I would be a more effective human if my emotional levels could be put in check. I realize I am in a predator prey scenario but to just be able to CHILL would be nice.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Nature or nurture?

Nature.
a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses