New Zealand’s gun confiscation program just failed miserably

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: 727Sky

Anyone who has been watching Hong Kong knows full well how a government treats its unarmed citizens during times of mass protest.

Your whole argument falls apart right there in the first sentence. Mate, If you think the Hong Kong police are being to aggressive with there tactics now, well then just imagine how aggressive they'd be if some of those protesters were armed with powerful semi automatic rifles.

Government is meant to work for its citizens. Some here simply cannot conceptualize limited small government adhering to the will of citizens' liberty and freedom

Yeah fair enough, but when your finished brown nosing your American fans on ATS. I think you know as well as anyone as a kiwi living in Australia that the majority of us simply do not associate gun ownership with "liberty and freedom". Its a uniquely American concept.

I can respect that its the 2nd amendment and even understand why some Americans would feel so passionately about it. But the reality is, for most non-Americans living in safe first world countries, its just a complete non-issue.

Its got nothing to do with wanting government to rule over our every thought or action, or whatever. Its simply that most people just don't give a crap about owning guns.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Assault weapon: [n] Any weapon that has been used as a club or bludgeon to assault a person with evidence of said assault being subdural hematoma, bruising, bleeding, laceration, abrasion, swelling, or other acute trauma.

Weapon: Any object, gas, gel, liquid, or plasma that is used to inflict damage, harm or injury.

You're welcome.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: TheRedneck

Here's one.

Assault rifle, military firearm that is chambered for ammunition of reduced size or propellant charge and that has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic and fully automatic fire.
www.britannica.com...

If someone needs an assault rifle for hunting then they're obviously not much of a hunter , or they think Predator was a documentary.

You must have never hunted feral hogs or coyotes, but I suppose you don't see much of that in your city apartment.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

A police search of their property will get them jail time and a criminal record. Even if the gun is never used for criminal purposes.

Sounds kinda dictatorial to me.

Congratulations?

TheRedneck

It isn't.

If you don't do anything illegal, you don't get busted for it.

A gun is not a necessity in a fair and safe society. It may well be a necessity in yours.

originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: TheRedneck

Here's one.

Assault rifle, military firearm that is chambered for ammunition of reduced size or propellant charge and that has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic and fully automatic fire.
www.britannica.com...

If someone needs an assault rifle for hunting then they're obviously not much of a hunter , or they think Predator was a documentary.

You must have never hunted feral hogs or coyotes, but I suppose you don't see much of that in your city apartment.

Has it occurred to you that it is possible to choose not to hunt feral hogs or coyotes?

You only need a multi-shot gun there because you are placing yourself in danger.

Feral animal numbers can be held in check far more effectively through trapping and baits.

a reply to: chr0naut

It isn't.

If you don't do anything illegal, you don't get busted for it.

Actually...

If I owned a gun, let's say because my daddy handed it down to me when he died, before this new law was passed, I would not have been doing anything illegal. Now that the law is passed, the legal thing I did is now illegal, and I have to take steps to make myself legal. Ergo, my legal actions have been made illegal by default.

That sounds dictatorial to me.

A gun is not a necessity in a fair and safe society. It may well be a necessity in yours.

Last I heard, Australia was the land where everything is trying to kill you. Since New Zealand is right next door, I can only assume you have similar species of animals. Now, what do you do when you're walking down the road, minding your own business, and one of those dangerous critters decides you're either a threat or lunch?

Tell it you live in a fair and safe society?

I dunno... I don't live there and I don't get to say what laws you pass. Of course, you don't live here and yet you seem to think you get to say what happens with our laws... Good luck with the new dictatorship.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut


A police search of their property will get them jail time and a criminal record. Even if the gun is never used for criminal purposes. That is how a gun ban works.

does that make you proud, or sick? Oh, and what is the definition of fascism?

No, I am a little bit safer without everyone else carrying around a device that can potentially cause my death.

It is the same as the government regulating other things that are a risk, like extreme toxins, or dangerous vehicles, unsafe buildings or other armaments such as explosives etc.

Fascism is an ultra-right political movement that first arose in Italy under Mussolini. It was adopted and strongly emulated by the German Nazi's.

Recently, there have been a large number of mass murders across the globe. These have almost always involved armaments such as guns or bombs. Usually the perpetrators of those mass murders have had ultra right-wing philosophies (such as strict limitations on immigration due to the perpetrators racist ideals), and that they have self-described as motivation for their acts. This ties ownership of weapons, to mass murder, and the ultra right-wing (or Fascist) beliefs.

Fascism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

fascism - Merriam Webster

fascism Cambridge English Dictionary

fascism - The Free Dictionary

Fascism - Brittanica

fascism - The Urban Dictionary

fascism - Vocabulary.com

fascism - Collins English Dictionary

fascism - Dictionary.com

a reply to: chr0naut

Has it occurred to you that it is possible to choose not to hunt feral hogs or coyotes?

Don't work that way, hoss.

I don't know anyone who wants to go after coyotes or razorbacks. They just tend to go after you if you don't. It's not like they're just roaming around trying to stay out of everyone's way... these are wild animals and they will attack a person if they feel threatened or get hungry enough. How do they feel threatened? Maybe you happen to live in the middle of what they consider their new territory.

You have obviously never been around wildlife and have spent all of your days in the relative safety of a city. Citified philosophies like yours will get you all dead out here.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: 727Sky
And the idea that you could defend against a tyrannical government that is massively better armed, provisioned and trained than the general populace is similarly stupid. To do so is to die, quickly.

This argument, while very superficially appearing to be logical, ignores the reality that many, in fact a large portion of that military will actually be on the side of those defending against such a tyrannical move by the government.

It only takes one, obeying their orders, to kill you. By and large, most soldiers do not derelict their duty. Humans have a weakness that few have the capacity to defy authority:

Milgram experiment
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It would not be the cakewalk you seem to imagine, unless the government is successful in one of their plots, which is to get our own military otherwise occupied elsewhere (like, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, etc etc ad nauseum), while quietly bringing UN (foreign) troops in to the country, who would not have any such patriotic feelings/sympathies with the local populations.

Nope, tyrannical governments around the world and across history have proven you wrong.

a reply to: chr0naut

I am a little bit safer without everyone else carrying around a device that can potentially cause my death.

Nah, you just feel safer.

Did you know that a short blade can cause your death? Are you aware that a can of Draino can cause your death? You probably didn't know that an ink pen, properly (or improperly, depending on your perspective) used can kill you?

Again, it's none of my business what you guys do over there. Doesn't affect me one bit. I just hate to see people being dishonest with themselves. You may feel safer, but thhat's just a feeling. You're actually not a bit safer than you were.

TheRedneck

If New Zealand wants to exist in some Orwellian police-state, then they are free (heh) to do so.

Just don't bring your police-state, authoritarian, douche-frisbee tactics here.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: 727Sky

"Sorry Democrats"? Do you think that this has any relevance with a US political party?

www.washingtonexaminer.com...

A plurality of Democrats were applauding NZ's PM for issuing the mandatory buyback and touting the idea for the US. Most Democrat POTUS candidates have also mentioned NZ and have advocated gun buyback or outright mandatory confiscation plans for the US. So yeah, New Zealand's failures in gun seizure would seem to have relevance to one party's visions of delusion within the USA.

Oh, it is delusional is it?

I, who don't own or carry a gun, just got safer by a tiny bit.

By my reasoning, it is delusional to think that arming everyone does not make it more likely that you will be shot.

originally posted by: 727Sky
Well this answered that !

The government set aside $110 million to compensate gun owners for their firearms. In total, the government collected 47,000 firearms. An accounting firm the government hired determined that the number of banned guns is estimated between 50,000 and 170,000. The exact number, however, is unknown because the country does not have a registry for what they call "military style assault rifles."

townhall.com...[/quot e]

So we could be talking about only 3,000 people not turning in the guns.

a reply to: 727Sky

I would never turn in my gun if they outlawed it. I'm not going to be a sitting duck for criminals to do whatever they want.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

I am a little bit safer without everyone else carrying around a device that can potentially cause my death.

Nah, you just feel safer.

Did you know that a short blade can cause your death? Are you aware that a can of Draino can cause your death? You probably didn't know that an ink pen, properly (or improperly, depending on your perspective) used can kill you?

Again, it's none of my business what you guys do over there. Doesn't affect me one bit. I just hate to see people being dishonest with themselves. You may feel safer, but thhat's just a feeling. You're actually not a bit safer than you were.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical

So we could be talking about only 3,000 people not turning in the guns.

Ohhh, math!

Won't go down well 'ere mate. 'S not the way we do it 'ere.

Brawndo has what plants crave.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: 727Sky

"Sorry Democrats"? Do you think that this has any relevance with a US political party?

www.washingtonexaminer.com...

A plurality of Democrats were applauding NZ's PM for issuing the mandatory buyback and touting the idea for the US. Most Democrat POTUS candidates have also mentioned NZ and have advocated gun buyback or outright mandatory confiscation plans for the US. So yeah, New Zealand's failures in gun seizure would seem to have relevance to one party's visions of delusion within the USA.

Oh, it is delusional is it?

I, who don't own or carry a gun, just got safer by a tiny bit.

By my reasoning, it is delusional to think that arming everyone does not make it more likely that you will be shot.

Move to Honduras, there it is illegal for any civilian to own any firearm... oh, and they have the highest homicide rate in the world, they certainly need more folks who "feel safe."

The rest of it matters not to me... if you don't feel safe around guns, then stay TF out of the USA and mind your own business. Problem solved.

a reply to: chr0naut

OK, maybe you shouldn't go around attacking folks with a banana.

I never thought I would have to explain this to an adult, but... Monty Python is not real. That wasn't a real gun, and the guy he shot is not really dead. The banana might be real.

Sorry, but it had to be said...

TheRedneck

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

I really wish I could give you more than just the largely irrelevant star for that post.

I have absolutely no desire to tell Americans what laws they should or should not have, its their business.

Gun ownership is engrained in their psyche.
But its not in most other country's, we don't need them and we don't want them.

So many Americans just can't get their head around that.
WE DON'T WANT THEM.

By the same token its not for us to moralise and preach to them what they should be doing.

Each to their own.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: 727Sky

"Sorry Democrats"? Do you think that this has any relevance with a US political party?

www.washingtonexaminer.com...

A plurality of Democrats were applauding NZ's PM for issuing the mandatory buyback and touting the idea for the US. Most Democrat POTUS candidates have also mentioned NZ and have advocated gun buyback or outright mandatory confiscation plans for the US. So yeah, New Zealand's failures in gun seizure would seem to have relevance to one party's visions of delusion within the USA.

Oh, it is delusional is it?

I, who don't own or carry a gun, just got safer by a tiny bit.

By my reasoning, it is delusional to think that arming everyone does not make it more likely that you will be shot.

Move to Honduras, there it is illegal for any civilian to own any firearm... oh, and they have the highest homicide rate in the world, they certainly need more folks who "feel safe."

The rest of it matters not to me... if you don't feel safe around guns, then stay TF out of the USA and mind your own business. Problem solved.

I don't have to move to Honduras. I live in New Zealand.

Also:

Firearms regulation in Honduras
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You aren't going to win any arguments until you get your facts right.