Fenbendazole, Cancer and developing scandals

The problem with natural product derivatives for cancer therapy is that they encounter the same problem as synthesized chemotherapeutic agents: cancer cells adapt and evolve to resist these strategies making them useless. That's why chemotherapeutic agents are usually delivered as a "cocktail" - a combination of agents to attack the cancer. To avoid resistance (really just postpone it), the doses are adjusted periodically in an attempt to outmaneuver the cancer cells. In fact, antioxidants found in fruits and vegetables can negatively impact some of the most effective chemotherapeutic agents. These agents form free radicals which attack the cancer. They also attack other organs - that's why you can lose your hair, nails, etc when taking this type of cancer therapy.

There are hundreds of studies on natural products that slow down or even stop cancer growth. But as I mentioned above, it's a short lived protocol. In the end, the cancer becomes resistant and you're back where you started - but maybe in a worse position for treatment. That's basically why natural product treatment for cancer is not encouraged. If you're unfortunate enough to develop cancer and start on radiation and chemotherapy, your oncologist will tell you NOT to take vitamins, particularly antioxidants like vitamin C and E. That applies to foods as well.
Isothiocyanates, which are found in strawberries, inhibits the cytochrome P450 system which in turn can inhibit tumorigenesis. But again, it's a short lived protocol because the P450 system is multifunctional so you can't shut it down for long without severe consequences.

I've seen this fist hand in my own work which was isolation and chemical characterization of compounds, including natural product compounds.

This video by Dr. Jason Fung is very interesting. The knowledge of cancer origins may produce some novel approaches to the disease.

I absolutely agree, chemo and "diet" that you have to take when you're on the treatment does more harm than good. But thats why people are searching for alternatives, chemo is too expensive and mostly ineffective, life quality drops drastically and you wish you were dead while you're in excruciating pain...

Fenbendazole does give you a chance to be cured without spending thousands of dollars on variuos treatments so you don't regret it that you survived another day. I shared some very informative articles before in this thread about fenben, if you have the time take a look.

originally posted by: Archaeval
I absolutely agree, chemo and "diet" that you have to take when you're on the treatment does more harm than good. But thats why people are searching for alternatives, chemo is too expensive and mostly ineffective, life quality drops drastically and you wish you were dead while you're in excruciating pain...

Fenbendazole does give you a chance to be cured without spending thousands of dollars on variuos treatments so you don't regret it that you survived another day. I shared some very informative articles before in this thread about fenben, if you have the time take a look.

I understand your point. However, there's no reason to believe that cancer cells will not become resistant to fenbendazole and other "azole" derivatives. There are numerous reports of antihelmintic resistance to azoles in animals. Why not resistance to cancer?

The mechanism of action against neoplasms is the affinity of azoles to bind to tubulin and microtubules. It shuts down the ability of the cancer cells to divide. This is also the mechanism of action as an antihelmintic (kills parasites, nematodes) which is the original use of azoles. Cancer exhibits thousands of genetic mutations which, at least for now, are uncontrollable and not well understood. The video I posted above describes research into cancer molecular biology.

The rationale for mixed chemotherapeutic agents is that there are dozens of candidates to be tested and used against cancer. Here's a list of agents currently used for different cancers: en.wikipedia.org...

It's like a nuclear strike - you want to knock out as much as you can initially and prevent recurrence with radiation treatment. The azoles have only a few derivatives where a biological organism can withstand the toxicity. Will you get more time if all else fails? Probably yes. Is it a cure? Probably no. The fortunate patients who don't experience a recurrence after taking an azole are anecdotal evidence. Clinical trials only show that azoles slow down the process. To declare azoles a cure will take years of data collection and analysis.

As a person, would I take it if all else failed? Probably yes. But as a scientist, I'm obligated to follow the scientific method and the protocols established for drug discovery which have proven beneficial to everyone. There are a number of on-going clinical trials with azoles, some even mixed with typical chemotherapeutic agents.

I hate to rain on people's parade about cancer. But the fact is we don't have cures. We have treatments. If azoles turn out to be one of them, that's fine with me. But we need the hard, consistent evidence first.

Cancer statistics haven't changed that much since we've been tracking data. People live longer, but eventually succumb to the disease. Some cancers, like colon cancer in young people, have actually increased. It's still a battle.

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: Archaeval
I absolutely agree, chemo and "diet" that you have to take when you're on the treatment does more harm than good. But thats why people are searching for alternatives, chemo is too expensive and mostly ineffective, life quality drops drastically and you wish you were dead while you're in excruciating pain...

Fenbendazole does give you a chance to be cured without spending thousands of dollars on variuos treatments so you don't regret it that you survived another day. I shared some very informative articles before in this thread about fenben, if you have the time take a look.

I understand your point. However, there's no reason to believe that cancer cells will not become resistant to fenbendazole and other "azole" derivatives. There are numerous reports of antihelmintic resistance to azoles in animals. Why not resistance to cancer?

The mechanism of action against neoplasms is the affinity of azoles to bind to tubulin and microtubules. It shuts down the ability of the cancer cells to divide. This is also the mechanism of action as an antihelmintic (kills parasites, nematodes) which is the original use of azoles. Cancer exhibits thousands of genetic mutations which, at least for now, are uncontrollable and not well understood. The video I posted above describes research into cancer molecular biology.

The rationale for mixed chemotherapeutic agents is that there are dozens of candidates to be tested and used against cancer. Here's a list of agents currently used for different cancers: en.wikipedia.org...

It's like a nuclear strike - you want to knock out as much as you can initially and prevent recurrence with radiation treatment. The azoles have only a few derivatives where a biological organism can withstand the toxicity. Will you get more time if all else fails? Probably yes. Is it a cure? Probably no. The fortunate patients who don't experience a recurrence after taking an azole are anecdotal evidence. Clinical trials only show that azoles slow down the process. To declare azoles a cure will take years of data collection and analysis.

As a person, would I take it if all else failed? Probably yes. But as a scientist, I'm obligated to follow the scientific method and the protocols established for drug discovery which have proven beneficial to everyone. There are a number of on-going clinical trials with azoles, some even mixed with typical chemotherapeutic agents.

I hate to rain on people's parade about cancer. But the fact is we don't have cures. We have treatments. If azoles turn out to be one of them, that's fine with me. But we need the hard, consistent evidence first.

Cancer statistics haven't changed that much since we've been tracking data. People live longer, but eventually succumb to the disease. Some cancers, like colon cancer in young people, have actually increased. It's still a battle.

It all depends on the type of cancer. And quite frankly, all your points don't actually dis the attempt to use "fenbendazole and other "azole" derivatives". In fact, your first point fails miserably. As the scientist that you are, then surely you are familiar with the recurrence of different cancers treated with chemo and even some cancers have 50-100% recurrence rate after chemo.

The fact that chemo lessens the quality of life (100%) albeit temporarily - but that could be a long time, without preventing recurrence (rates vary between cancer types) gives one reason to pause and consider alternatives. And this is why:

Cancer continues to be the second most common cause of death in the US, after heart disease. A total of 1.9 million new cancer cases and 609,360 deaths from cancer are expected to occur in the US in 2022, which is about 1,670 deaths a day.

www.cancer.org...#:~:text=Cancer%20continues%20to%20be%20the,about%201%2C670%20deaths%20a%20day.

I myself have decided that if I were to ever get cancer I would heavily consider whether to go through chemo or not. I had a friend who lost three wives to cancer. He flat out said, after watching what they went through with treatment and still dying, he would never take any treatment for cancer. Although he was elderly, he did finally get the dreaded disease and went into his garage and shot himself soon after he was diagnosed.

a reply to: StoutBroux

It all depends on the type of cancer. And quite frankly, all your points don't actually dis the attempt to use "fenbendazole and other "azole" derivatives". In fact, your first point fails miserably. As the scientist that you are, then surely you are familiar with the recurrence of different cancers treated with chemo and even some cancers have 50-100% recurrence rate after chemo.

You missed the point completely. I said we had TREATMENTS, not CURES. I never said cancer would not come back using conventional chemotherapy. I said that there's a wide variety of chemotherapeutic agents. The "azoles" have very few. Whether they can be used in conjunction with conventional chemotherapy remains to be seen.
Read what I said again. And understand it.

a reply to: Phantom423

The way you are thinking is truely something... But i'm pesimictic about cancer statistic's because at the present time there are complex diseases that can be or are considered as cancer, while in reality they aren't. In my opinion the statistics are not accurate and the number can be much higher or lower. My point is that i don't trust statistics, i don't trust doctors (i always need to get a second or even third opinion about my condition) the one thing i can be sure is my opinion because if i don't believe in my opinion then why should i even speak ? I live for me for my beliefs and my family so thats that. I truely don't even know where i'm going with this reply from this point so yeah.