The Drake Equation Fallacy

a reply to: Barcs

Blatant contradiction, both cannot be true. Epic fail.

No it isn't no matter how you slice it. You just lack the common
sense it takes to understand that a supreme being who created the
universe. By the very definition of the word God could not be captured
in his own creation. Therefore it would make perfect sense that by the
very definition of the word God he is a multi dimensional supreme being.

Not at all restrained by the laws of his creation (Time). So it would be really
stupid on your part to even try and assert your lie saying God could not be a
causeless cause. When that's all he could be. You want your limited protocols
to extend to a being that said protocols doesn't even allow to exist.

The only way it could be a double standard would be to change the very
definition of the word God. ( Not that I would put it past you ).
So that settles that for me perfectly fine no matter what you say.. The double
standard and lies are in your lap.

And don't try invoke evidence into this context. It's not what we're talking about.

What say ye?

Science does not say life just pops out of nowhere, stop lying.

That's exactly what it says and you have been shown that I am not lying
in this very thread. By scientists that don't believe the crap theory also
saying the same thing. But even in a petri dish and a lab science can
barely get an experiment to even point in the direction of spontaneity.
The only way you can not be saying life just pops into existence is if
a supreme being is involved. Life doesn't just happen. It needs a force.
Hello

"The Life Force"

Check mate!

And voluntary slavery is a completely different thing than what you
accuse God of so just stop. Your little atheist toy excuses are quite pathetic.

originally posted by: Jay-morris
a reply to: Barcs

You cannot debate with these people, it's impossible. So brainwashed and conditioned. It's amazing that this dude keeps on talking about evidence, but does not produce any to back his claims.

It's also amazing how he keeps on saying we have no evidence, while vastly ignoring the evidence we have posted.

But hey, as ling as they are not hurting anyone, each to their own I guess!

The way I see it, people like this are doing wonders for atheism. Christianity is declining faster than it ever has in the US, and I have no doubt a large part of that is because of religious zealots projecting their silly delusional nonsense and making themselves look stupid.

originally posted by: carsforkids
No it isn't no matter how you slice it. You just lack the common
sense it takes to understand that a supreme being who created the
universe. By the very definition of the word God could not be captured
in his own creation. Therefore it would make perfect sense that by the
very definition of the word God he is a multi dimensional supreme being.

Not at all restrained by the laws of his creation (Time). So it would be really
stupid on your part to even try and assert your lie saying God could not be a
causeless cause. When that's all he could be. You want your limited protocols
to extend to a being that said protocols doesn't even allow to exist.

LMFAO! Once again, you rattle off presuppositions. More special pleading, no substance. Coop claimed intelligence only comes from intelligence, THAT was the argument. If that claim was true, intelligence could not just exist by default, the intelligence would have had to come from somewhere else. It's a pathetically dishonest assertion that has nothing to do with reality and only moves the goal posts. Not to mention you top it off with another straw man. The argument was about intelligence, not a causeless cause. I didn't say god CANNOT be a causeless cause, I said that intelligence is not required to come from intelligence. Please try to keep up. Half the crap you post isn't even related to the discussion.

The only way it could be a double standard would be to change the very
definition of the word God. ( Not that I would put it past you ).
So that settles that for me perfectly fine no matter what you say.. The double
standard and lies are in your lap.

I didn't change the meaning of god. You asserted god is true based on a man made definition based on no actual evidence. There is a definition for werewolf too, that doesn't mean I can't argue the improbability of their existence or refute fallacies that werewolf believers use.

That's exactly what it says and you have been shown that I am not lying
in this very thread. By scientists that don't believe the crap theory also
saying the same thing. But even in a petri dish and a lab science can
barely get an experiment to even point in the direction of spontaneity.
The only way you can not be saying life just pops into existence is if
a supreme being is involved. Life doesn't just happen. It needs a force.

You have lied multiple times, bud. Abiogenesis hypotheses DO NOT state that life suddenly just pops out of nowhere. Organic chemists postulate an incremental process that takes millions of years, not mixing chemicals in a dish and POOF a fully formed cell complete with modern DNA structure. Hell the very first step of abiogenesis, the generation of amino acids has been slam dunk proved by multiple experiments, and they do form spontaneously. Your delusional presuppositions don't change that.

And voluntary slavery is a completely different thing than what you
accuse God of so just stop. Your little atheist toy excuses are quite pathetic.

Funny how you ignored the entire post. LOL @ voluntary slavery. The bible clearly says you can buy slaves from traders and they become your property FOR LIFE even inheritable to your kids. Denial of that is pure lunacy. Indentured servitude is not owning people as property, it's working of a debt and there is a 7 year limit. Stop lying. It's clear you haven't read the bible and you are butthurt because you keep getting repeatedly owned in this conversation.

originally posted by: whereislogic
...
Yet, even if many planets do exist that meet the stringent conditions necessary to sustain life as we know it, the question remains, How would life arise on those worlds? This brings us to the very foundation of the belief in beings on other worlds​—evolution.

To many scientists, it seems logical to believe that if life could evolve from nonliving matter on this planet, that could be true on others as well. As one writer put it: “The general thinking among biologists is that life will begin whenever it is given an environment where it can begin.” But that is where evolution faces an insurmountable objection. Evolutionists cannot even explain how life began on this planet.

Scientists Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wickramasinghe estimate that the odds against life’s vital enzymes forming by chance are one in 10^40,000 (1 with 40,000 zeros after it). Scientists Feinberg and Shapiro go still further. In their book Life Beyond Earth, they put the odds against the material in an organic soup ever taking the first rudimentary steps toward life at one in 10^1,000,000.

Do you find these cumbersome figures hard to grasp? The word “impossible” is easier to remember, and it is just as accurate. The rest of evolutionary theory is equally fraught with trouble.

Still, SETI astronomers blithely assume that life must have originated by chance all over the universe. ...

The evolutionists’ dream was discovery of a supersimple first living cell. Molecular biology has turned their dream into a nightmare. Michael Denton, specialist in molecular biology, already sounded its death knell in 1985:

“Molecular biology has shown that even the simplest of all living systems on earth today, bacterial cells, are exceedingly complex objects. Although the tiniest bacterial cells are incredibly small, weighing less than 10^−12 gms, each is in effect a veritable micro-miniaturized factory containing thousands of exquisitely designed pieces of intricate molecular machinery, made up altogether of one hundred thousand million atoms, far more complicated than any machine built by man and absolutely without parallel in the nonliving world.

“Molecular biology has also shown that the basic design of the cell system is essentially the same in all living systems on earth from bacteria to mammals. In all organisms the roles of DNA, mRNA and protein are identical. The meaning of the genetic code is also virtually identical in all cells. The size, structure and component design of the protein synthetic machinery is practically the same in all cells. In terms of their basic biochemical design, therefore no living system can be thought of as being primitive or ancestral with respect to any other system, nor is there the slightest empirical hint of an evolutionary sequence among all the incredibly diverse cells on earth.”⁠ (Evolution: A Theory in Crisis, by Michael Denton, 1985, p. 250.)

Not surprising, then, that Harold Morowitz, a Yale University physicist, has calculated that the chances of getting the simplest living bacterium by random changes is 1 in 1 followed by 100,000,000,000 zeros. “This number is so large,” Shapiro said, “that to write it in conventional form we would require several hundred thousand blank books.” He charges that scientists committed to the chemical evolution of life ignore the increasing evidence and “have chosen to hold it as a truth beyond question, thereby enshrining it as mythology.”⁠ (Origins: A Skeptic’s Guide to the Creation of Life on Earth, by Robert Shapiro, 1986, pp. 32, 49, 128.)

a reply to: Barcs

Oh good you're back. I thought for a brief moment you might be finished
misrepresenting Creation and lying about everything.
And yes in direct correlation to depravity, immorality, perversion and
crimes such as school shootings, hit and run murder, assault and
suicide! Atheism is on the rise.

This is happening and is also predicted in the Bible many times. For instance
in revelation it is described as " The great falling away". I'm sure you'll
base some retort with some nonsense arguing the interpretation of Bible
prophecy and while you're free to do so. I won't be engaging you in an
argument in regards to a difference of opinion on Bible prophecy.

So yes you're right Atheism is on the rise and we can see all the
wonderful things going on around that Godlessness. Even today as
we speak, in the political arena.

So yeah woo hoo! Atheism you go. GOOD JOB SO FAR! WONDERFUL
CHANGE. You should be proud. Great point!

Wait owned you mean like a slave? lol

Funny how you ignored the entire post. LOL @ voluntary slavery. The bible clearly says you can buy slaves from traders and they become your property FOR LIFE even inheritable to your kids. Denial of that is pure lunacy. Indentured servitude is not owning people as property, it's working of a debt and there is a 7 year limit. Stop lying. It's clear you haven't read the bible and you are butthurt because you keep getting repeatedly owned in this conversation.

What denial? Are you even comprehending the conversation? How does God
grant all men free will and then condone slavery? To suggest even a simple
minded human like yourself would be so illogical oh wait...........

a reply to: whereislogic

Again, Barcs seems to be to busy attacking the least educated (such
as myself) of the theists in this thread. That and backslapping
with other atheists for moral support. He's have'n a hard enough time
arguing with me!

“Molecular biology has shown that even the simplest of all living systems on earth today, bacterial cells, are exceedingly complex objects. Although the tiniest bacterial cells are incredibly small, weighing less than 10^−12 gms, each is in effect a veritable micro-miniaturized factory containing thousands of exquisitely designed pieces of intricate molecular machinery, made up altogether of one hundred thousand million atoms, far more complicated than any machine built by man and absolutely without parallel in the nonliving world.

This is great stuff!

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: cooperton
Feel free to point out specific details of the experiment and illustrate the errors in their studies

There was no error in the experiment, just the conclusion. They concluded it was evolution, but it was actually pre-set genes being turned up to metabolize an antibiotic. Functions do not form by random chance, unless you have ever observed a factory come to be by random chance? Or a purposeful device form by random chance? It doesn't happen. It requires intelligence.

The Drake Equation is fallacious because it takes an intelligent faculty out of the equation. It takes on the assumption that this world came to be by random, which is the atheist dogma. Form and order do not form by random chance, it is an intelligent design.

a reply to: cooperton

But theists are the ones who are in denial. Atheism is denial! And it's
rise in America is nothing short of disgusting in the streets of San Francisco
clear to China! A world without God is clearly going to suck. But as Barcs has
been so clever to point out it is happening. Sodom and Gomarrah hear we come.

I think I just found my next thread.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: cooperton
Feel free to point out specific details of the experiment and illustrate the errors in their studies

There was no error in the experiment, just the conclusion. They concluded it was evolution, but it was actually pre-set genes being turned up to metabolize an antibiotic. Functions do not form by random chance, unless you have ever observed a factory come to be by random chance? Or a purposeful device form by random chance? It doesn't happen. It requires intelligence.

The Drake Equation is fallacious because it takes an intelligent faculty out of the equation. It takes on the assumption that this world came to be by random, which is the atheist dogma. Form and order do not form by random chance, it is an intelligent design.

And you can prove this is God how? And how do you know your God is the real God, instead of the other religious gods out there.

What is your evidence that your God is real? Your book?

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: cooperton

But theists are the ones who are in denial. Atheism is denial! And it's
rise in America is nothing short of disgusting in the streets of San Francisco
clear to China! A world without God is clearly going to suck. But as Barcs has
been so clever to point out it is happening. Sodom and Gomarrah hear we come.

I think I just found my next thread.

Yeah because religion has not caused wars, and the death of billions of people for thousand of years!

originally posted by: Jay-morris
And you can prove this is God how?

By the definition of a Creator being, the originator of physical Laws and biological beings, would be God. The Apex God is our Universal Parent. Our originator and our future.

And how do you know your God is the real God, instead of the other religious gods out there.

Words are insufficient to define this God. Jesus, the firstborn and oldest brother of the impending new humanity, had no recorded writings of his own, indicating that the truth manifest could not be effectively written down - because it would be insufficient to describe the entirety of this Grand Truth. The writers throughout history that mused upon God give us a template that we can match our internal musings to, indicating that we are coming towards the cohesive universal truth that spurred up in the minds of the seekers throughout the ages.

What is your evidence that your God is real? Your book?

I think the most compelling evidence is the biofeedback I get when meditating or synchronizing throughout my day with the Archetypal Mind of the Apex God - Our Father. When aligned with this Way, my whole body resonates with euphoric revelation. Because our bodies come from the Apex God, when we align with It, we resonate at a higher energy level and have complete lucidity, understanding, love, and so on. It is something I would compel everyone to take seriously. Even if just for a day. That's the whole point of the Sabbath - seriously, give it a go, suspend your disbelief for one day and treat the internal forces of the Apex God as your GPS.

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: cooperton

But theists are the ones who are in denial. Atheism is denial! And it's
rise in America is nothing short of disgusting in the streets of San Francisco
clear to China! A world without God is clearly going to suck.

I think I just found my next thread.

There is no hope in atheism. In atheism, all consciousness eventually goes lights out.

Their main argument is that they don't see God, or see evidence of God. But all the most fundamental forces to this cosmos are invisible - gravity, electromagnetism, molecular forces, and so on. God would not be limited to a physical form. Although if God did take physical form, the human vessel would be the archetypal vessel for a Creator Being to manifest as.

From God, and therefore back to God we go. Our beliefs are powerful, and may even be strong enough to deject God if in a fervent denial. I would suppose the stubborn deniers of God will be allotted with other things that are deviant from God. Quite the hellish situation.

I have pioneered many things here on earth, and there is nothing enduring or worthwhile besides the pursuit of understanding God and therefore Truth. Fleeting happiness and merriment is great to enjoy with others, but eventually we are compelled to focus and meet our Maker. The sooner the better.

a reply to: cooperton

Very well said good sir I'm glad Gods grace has landed you here.
Because this

Fleeting happiness and merriment is great to enjoy with others, but eventually we are compelled to focus and meet our Maker. The sooner the better.

is like gold to me at this point in my life.

a reply to: cooperton

Yes, and people soy their God is the true God, that their book is the true word of God! There is just as much evidence for your God, then there is for any other God, which is no evidence. But they always say the same thing, thst their God is real.

As your friend on here answered badly to the question I put to him, let me ask you.

Bow can you justify worshiping a "loving God" when he commands the death of innocent men, women and children. Does thst sound like a loving God, or made up by primitive people who only knew that way of life?

How can you justify worshiping a God like that?

a reply to: cooperton

I have pioneered many things here on earth, and there is nothing enduring or worthwhile besides the pursuit of understanding God and therefore Truth. Fleeting happiness and merriment is great to enjoy with others, but eventually we are compelled to focus and meet our Maker. The sooner the better.

If you do not obey, then that loving God, who loves you, will condemn to hell for not brlieving him.

Does that sound like a sociopath to you?

a reply to: Jay-morris

Jay do you realize how silly it is to claim that a lack of PREFERRED evidence
is by no means a way to support a claim of no evidence therefore non existence?
I say the universe is a Creation. I have pre existing information ( Clearly not
from myth as Atheism only wishes were true. Another silly unintelligent
atheist lie) from very old writings that in themselves lay many wonders.
Not to mention the miracle of us even having them. So with that and
having said Creation? You can't deny that imply's an intelligent supreme
being that we have a word for God.

All that said if you ever took that much seriously you'd understand that
even other religions like Buddhism have their God Buddha claiming he
himself is not divinity. And I'm not 100% on this last part but believe he
pointed to Christ was Divine. And I know Confucius did. All that to say
if you ever do open your mind instead of arguing unscientifically from
a closed mind? Then you can figure the rest out for yourself. As I did
at ten years old.

I'm just your average guy on the street child of the seventies truck driver.
I've been corrected many a time and being a full grown man I've admitted
to being wrong often. But I've been around long enough and have seen
nothing on this planet or any other to convince me to change what I believe.
Not even close.

Revised

a reply to: carsforkids

Problem is you were born into your beliefs... they would have likely been completely different IF you were born into a different religion... Most people are born into their belief system, and manage to maintain it through out their lives

The drake equation is based on probability, not fact... Though as soon as we actually discover life on another moon or planet it becomes reality... one discovery will change everything we know... its only a matter of time..

And unfortunately... or fortunately depending on your belief system... that will mean the end of a lot of religious outlooks

a reply to: Akragon

Problem is you were born into your beliefs..

I just explained this assumption is completely false ahead of your
post. I could feel that one coming.

Then you can figure the rest out for yourself. As I did
at ten years old.

I was never indoctrinated to anything I could have easily been an atheist
or anything else. My parents never once took me thru doors of a church.

The drake equation is based on probability, not fact... Though as soon as we actually discover life on another moon or planet it becomes reality... one discovery will change everything we know... its only a matter of time..

I wonder are you a betting man by any chance!

a reply to: carsforkids

That was the point... at ten years old you can barely figure anything out... let alone ask the important questions

Thus you were born into your belief systems... just as i was... and most christians or other religions

a reply to: Akragon

Thus you were born into your belief systems... just as i was... and most christians or other religions

I don't even have a religion now. What the hell I wasn't born into anything.
And you want to argue about that now? I bet you can tell me where I
was born then also? So have at it? Tell me all about me?

LOL

a reply to: carsforkids

nah... just participating in the discussion, im not here to argue...

Though clearly your beliefs are based on the bible... religion or not...

Chances are at 10 years old you didn't suddenly decide to pick up a bible and start reading... longest most boring book in the world IF you start from Genesis and work your way though the chapters... especially IF you're 10 lol

its pretty safe to assume you had a Christian up bringing regardless of IF you were dragged to church or not...

Or am I wrong