the beast of the land and the beast of the sea....

I had this thought spooking in my head and thought ATS sure knows more than I about what is written in the bible.

What if the beast of the land is a metaphor for materialism, and the beast of the sea is a metaphor for religion/spirituality?

Or in other words, the dens physical universe with it's established science,(beast of the land)

And the non dense universe where religion, and spirituality was/is rooted.(beast of the sea)

Can some of the more bible literates see any correlations in my hypothesis and the story written?

Would you mind keeping the bible quotes short and elaborate with your own words?

Sincerely No Clue

a reply to: NoClue

What if the beast of the land is a metaphor for materialism

What points you toward suggesting that.

What kind of spooking was it in your head?

That depends on a definition of dense and non-dense universes....
The meaning eludes me at the moment

a reply to: LookingAtMars

Materialism is trying to describe the whole trough the dens perceivable reality. The solid part of the world, land!

Religion is trying to describe the whole trough the non dens, spiritual(for the lack of better terms) reality. The fluid part of the world, water!

It could also have to do with the raising awareness, in the science community. that there has to be something, where there seems to be nothing.

And further with the raising awareness that there is nothing where there should be something, in the religious/spiritual community.

Honestly No Clue

a reply to: NoClue
My old Revelation series of threads (q.v.) has one thread each on these two beasts.
To cut a long story short, the beast from the sea is evidently modelled on the four beasts that emerge from the sea in Daniel ch7. The four beasts of Daniel are political kingdoms, so the implication is that the sea-beast in Revelation is a political regime.
I suggested that the beast from the land, the loudmouth, is the leader of that state, who "exercises authority in the name of the first beast".
"The land" is the natural alternative to "the sea". Also Revelation keeps talking about the combination "Heaven and land and sea". If Christ is understood to come from heaven, then the fact that his opponents come from land and sea completes that trio again.

Beast from the sea
Beast from the land

a reply to: Gothmog

The apple falling from the tree, dens universe

Why did the apple fall, non dense universe.

NC

The answer is...Rome.

originally posted by: NoClue
a reply to: Gothmog

The apple falling from the tree, dens universe

Why did the apple fall, non dense universe.

NC

Allllllrrrrriiiiiiighttttty then.
That classifies and clarifies...

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: NoClue

Also Revelation keeps talking about the combination "Heaven and land and sea". If Christ is understood to come from heaven, then the fact that his opponents come from land and sea completes that trio again.

I think you said something very important here!

If heaven is perfect harmony home of christ. And with the sea and the land beasts, they form the triangle, trinity of god.

Wouldn't that suggest that only in finding a harmonic view between all 3, the kingdom of god can come?

Wouldn't perceiving them as opponents make Harmony impossible?

Can religion/spirituality accept a scientific model that explains god?

And can the materialistic accept god if it's explained scientifically?

Sincerely No Clue

a reply to: Gothmog

Rather sensible topic...

we will classify later a bit more

As always very valuable contributions from your side

Absolutely No Clue

The Book of Job has the Behemoth, and the Leviathan who are beasts of land an sea though they are different beasts from a differing tale then the ones in revelations.

In Jungs opinion, the Leviathan was a representation of the subconscious mind, while I think certain sects of Judaism are inclined to explaining or using the Leviathan that way too.

Both Behemey an Levyaton represent tidal forces of nature to that extent, like land an sea vying for dominance over each.

Very much like Yin an Yang I suppose.

As for Revelations, the fourth beast of the sea is Rome, while in other text, it different, and becomes a single beast of the sea. The second that comes out of the earth, is ancient Greece, even though its implied in the text that it is the Vatican.

Then there the Red Dragon which is mentioned much earlier.

a reply to: Lab4Us

Would you care to elaborate how you come to this conclusion?

a reply to: NoClue
Unfortunately it is the land and sea beasts that choose opposition to Christ, so harmony is ruled out from their side. Harmony is not possible until they have been removed from the scene and the land and sea have been placed under heaven's authority.

a reply to: NoClue

So there are 4 beast of the sea? (religion/spirituality)

And one of the land?
(materialism)

Honestly No Clue

a reply to: NoClue

Yes think you are correct NoClue.

Beast of the sea is the Kingdom of God. The seven heads represent the seven chakras, in kabbalah they are represented by Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Aaron . Moses, Joseph and King David (see the book of Zohar). The 10 horns are the ten sefirot (a 3d map of the 7 chakras) which has twenty-two paths.

The best from the land is mans egotistical desires. The following is from book of zohar...

Our heart is the sum of our egoistic desires, and the small point within it is part of the spiritual, altruistic desire implanted from Above by the Creator Himself. It is our task to nurture this embryo of a spiritual desire to such an extent that it (and not our egoistic nature) will determine all of our aspirations. At the same time, the egoistic desire of the heart will surrender, contract, wither, and diminish.

After being born in our world, one is obliged to change his heart from egoistic to altruistic, while living in this world. This is the purpose of his life, the reason behind his appearance in this world, and it is the goal of all creation. A complete replacement of egoistic desires with altruistic ones is called “the End of Correction.” Every individual and all of humanity must attain it in this world together. Until one achieves this, he will continue to be born into this world.

So each of the 10 horns are gateless gates that don't let anyone pass. So to pass the gateless gates you have to become no-one, having no desires for one self, only the desire to serve the will of the Father.

a reply to: NoClue

I had this thought spooking in my head and thought ATS sure knows more than I about what is written in the bible.

Just a thought - but wouldn't a Christian website know more about the Bible than ATS? Seems unlikely that you'll find balanced Christian discussion, debate & exposition regarding Christian doctrine or Judaic interpretations of the Law & Prophets, Psalms & Proverbs, etc (the Old Testament part of the Bible).

My honest advice is to utilise a website such as Bible Gateway (check out the reading plans, blogs & articles to get a feel for balanced Christian material). I'd also recommend going to a church, definitely Evangelical but not full-on, try to fin a place which gives you peace in your spirit when you enter & speeak with the congregation.

Also, and this is hugely important - DON'T start your investigation of the faith by diving straight into the Book of the Revekation of St John, which is where the Beast aspects are found. Revelation is a real headscratcher for 95% of solid & committed Christians, and if you try to delve into it unprepared it can send you round the twist. It's a heavily encoded, time-locked set of data which is impenetrable unless you have the key - which is connected to the dynamics of linguistics, the Greek & the Hebrew/ Aramaic.

My favorite book in the New Testament is the Book of Acts - you get a great feel for the energy & passion of the first believers, and the message is straightforward & easy to grasp. The Gospel according to Luke would work well as a follow-up, because it is believed that Luke also wrote the Book of Acts, as Paul the Apostle's travelling companion & journalist of the day.

Find some solid Christians who believe in the power of prayer & walking in the Spirit, and stay away from the dragons of Revelations for the time being. That's my honest advice - God bless.

FITO.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
Just a thought - but wouldn't a Christian website know more about the Bible than ATS? Seems unlikely that you'll find balanced Christian discussion, debate & exposition regarding Christian doctrine or Judaic interpretations of the Law & Prophets, Psalms & Proverbs, etc (the Old Testament part of the Bible).

Unless, of course, he examines the back-catalogue of threads in my profile. I'm sure that's what you meant.

a reply to: DISRAELI

There is nothing to govern without land and sea...
Without trinity, all there is, is not.

god can shine trough Trinity into what is!

if there is harmony if we have an equilateral triangle and all sides are equally balanced. We could see how jesus could be gods son and still human and how that relates to each of us.

On topic
integrating the perceived opponents(they are Gods creation after all) could mean finding an agreement a wording or a form or a story that describes all three as one and all three could agree on it. Then we could spare us the fighting and have God shining through us.

If god exist why is he not here? Because we are not yet like crist.
Was Jesus real or not? He was as real as we are
Did he had God with him or not? He had as we have, but we haven't found harmony between christ, land, and sea, and therefore good can not come.

Wouldn't eradicating two of the three fundamental blocks of our reality,
land(dense physical body), sea(spirituality/religion),
mean we would lose the access to god?

Maybe we don't want God proud of our creation, maybe we want war and destruction?

Whipping out all of existence? Me and everyone and everything every feeling every color, every beat, every dance, every thing there is and could be? The light itself?

That is not heaven it is god yes
but it's utterly boring

Honestly No Clue

a reply to: glend

We just have to have our dualities moved into trinity, and know how it works, Then i can cross any gate i want, ten is a good start... I learned alot when i could free my mind when crossing the gate and fill it with thoughts to bring back.

The guardians know my fears!

Sincerely No Clue

a reply to: glend

That an interesting take I haven't come across before.

From a pretist pov, the heads represented the different Caesars that where in power, during the first 300 year before Christainity became the new religion. Always thought the seven secrets in revelations were the chakras.