NEWS: London mayor: Sharon is a war criminal

London Mayor Ken Livingstone wrote in The Guardian newspaper today that Ariel Sharon, the Israeli Prime Minister, is "a war criminal who should be in prison, not in office". He argues that Sharon continues to "organize terror" when comparing the large number of Palestinians to Israelis killed over the last 4 years. He also claimed that Israels expansion also includes etnic cleansing, and that the Israeli government deliberately tries to blur the line between criticism of Israeli policies and anti-Semitism.



Not long after taking alot of flack for calling a Jewish reporter a nazi, it's seems Livingstone has opened himself up to even more flack.

Without getting into whether he's right or wrong about Sharon being a war criminal, I fully have to agree with him about Israel blurring the lines between criticism of their policies and anti-Semetism. It seems nearly every time people have a problem with what the Israeli government are up to cries of anti-Semetism is heard, it's got to stop so it's refreshing to hear comments like this really.

Put it this way, if he'd come out and said something similiar about a Palestinian leader or the North Korean leader do you think he'd face the same back-lash he is very likely going to face now?

Related News Links:
politics.guardian.co.uk
politics.guardian.co.uk

He's dead right though!

Ive long hated how some Jewish individuals claim anti-semitism when faced with any criticism. They act like they are untouchable because of their race. To me thats the real racism.

The whole calling the reporter "a concentration camp guard" comment was blown far out of proportion. Typical British tabloid witch hunt tactcs.

The guy had hounded the Mayor for weeks and confronted him out front of a private party and baited him with pointed questions. So he got the typical Livingstone response. Livingstone didnt even know he was Jewish.

[edit on 4/3/05 by subz]

As can be seen by subz response, the now everyday use and label of "Nazi" is quite acceptable if not within Political Correctness, huh?

Either this is typical rhetoric for England and Europe, in general, or Mr. Livingstone is embarrassment to England.

Please, feel free to call me a "Nazi", too, k?




seekerof

One wonders what this guy eats for breakfast... He obviously has an agenda and doesn't mind getting it on him.

My gut reaction is he is doing this for the publicity and nothing more. What are his numbers like in the polls? I can't imagine anyone is this dense or that obvious wothout a motive.

m...

As can be seen by subz response, the now everyday use and label of "Nazi" is quite acceptable if not within Political Correctness, huh?

Well first off, PC has gone way too far in my opinion.
Second, he likened a reporter who's been hounding him for years to "a nazi concentration camp guard", as in he can do any horrible thing he wants and use the "I'm just doing my job" reply. They decided to take it literally and use the fact that the reporter was jewish to further their agenda against Livingstone and call it "Anti-Semetic".
Thirdly, the issue of him calling a reporter this isn't even the subject, that's another story. You of all people as a moderator should know that.

Either this is typical rhetoric for England and Europe, in general, or Mr. Livingstone is embarrassment to England.

Neither. Some people can actually make a remark without it being taken literally and taken out of context to further their agenda...one they've held against Livingstone for a long time.

Please, feel free to call me a "Nazi", too, k?

Nazi!

[edit on 4-3-2005 by John Nada]

My gut reaction is he is doing this for the publicity and nothing more. What are his numbers like in the polls? I can't imagine anyone is this dense or that obvious wothout a motive.

They all have a motive man, and everytime they open their mouths there's an agenda...welcome to the party, better late than never.

He is extremely popular as the London Mayor actually, and that's a result of him being very honest and making comments like this. Put it this way, he's so popular Blair fought to get him back into the Labour party, and he certainly wouldn't have to make comments like this to boost his numbers.

Of course he isn't popular with everyone and many feel he helped the IRA e.t.c. but I do like what he says.
However, as far as I'm concerned you can't trust a single one of 'em.

[edit on 4-3-2005 by John Nada]

Believe me, you don't get the nickname Arial "the butcher" Sharon for nothing!

John Nada,
Thank you for picking up on the "Nazi" mention I made. I made it for a purpose. Two incidents, with two Jews, one he calls a "Nazi", the other he calls a "war criminal." Correlation or coincedence?

Popularity or not, his responses are either out of hand, or he, like most Britains and Europeans, have forgotten the lessons from less than 75 years ago.

Question: Is antisemitism on the rise in England, cause I know its on the rise in Europe?




seekerof

[edit on 4-3-2005 by Seekerof]

Believe me, you don't get the nickname Arial "the butcher" Sharon for nothing!

LMAO! It couldn't be put better.

John Nada,
Thank you for picking up on the "Nazi" mention I made. I made it for a purpose. Two incidents, with two Jews, one he calls a "Nazi", the other he calls a "war criminal." Correlation or coincedence?

I would say coincedence but it's not even really that. When he made that remark to the reporter he did not know he was jewish, once this was pointed out to him he stook to his guns as he doesn't like the guy anyway whether he's Jewish, Black, Purple or Martian.
Good on him I say.

Popularity or not, his responses are either out of hand, or he, like most Britains and Europeans, have forgotten the lessons from less than 75 years ago.

Neither, and I'd love to know why you'd think his comments about Sharon are either out of hand or lessons forgotten?

Question: Is antisemitism on the rise in England, cause I know its on the rise in Europe?

You mean is questioning Israels policies and criticising them on the up in Britain? Absolutely...I guess as Livingstone said though some people are confusing that with Anti-Semetism.

And again I would like to know what problems you have with the remarks he made about Sharon, why is he wrong?

Cheers.

[edit on 4-3-2005 by John Nada]

I don't see any antisemitism at all. Like said before in this thread. The word has lost it's meaning and gets thrown around a lot. Isreal in this case sounds like the spoiled rich kid who gets angry when he doesn't get his way.

Seekerof your whitewashing of the real wrong doing is getting amusing.

Anti-semitism is trotted out EVERY time a Jew is criticised. Just when does PC allow the criticism of a Jew? Is it ever allowed because of the Holocaust? Have I become a NAZI in your eyes because im critical of some Jews?

If a reporter who happened to be Jewish hounded you incesantly and confronted you at a friends party and said "im only doing my job". Would you refrain from saying "thats what war criminals say" or "thats what concentration camp guards said"? I think you'd keep your mouth shut and allow his race to bias your attitude = thats racism ya know.

You might find being Jewish to be an iron clad excuse to be above criticism but I dont see it as any defence. If you do something that I dont like and your a Jew, Muslim, Christian, Black or anything then I'll tell you. I dont see race first, i see the issue. If that makes me a racist in your eyes then I think you need to get out the dictionary.

I respect Livingstone for having the balls to tackle the political correctness scourge.

[edit on 4/3/05 by subz]

Well done old Kenny boy. He is amongst one of the very few politicians that are willing to speak their minds on issues rather than be a complete puppet!!

For my overseas comrades, here are some of his quotes:

"World wide capitalism kills more people everyday then Hitler did. And he was crazy."

On the Saudi Royal Family:
"I just long for the day I wake up and find that the Saudi Royal family are swinging from the lamp-posts and they've got a proper government that represents the people of Saudi Arabia."

On President Bush:

"(the) greatest threat to life on this planet that we've most probably ever seen".

"Bush is repellent, a hawk who was a coward, leader of the most corrupt administration
since the Twenties. He’s not a legitimate President."



Big-up yourself Ol' Kenny Boy

Expected as much. Thanks guys and gals.
Oh, btw, from the BBC:
Anti-Semitism 'on rise in Europe'

The study singles out Belgium, France, Germany, the Netherlands and Britain, where it says the rise in anti-Semitism has been of particular concern.

You all can defend him, as you are doing, but Mr. Livingston has just placed another foot in his mouth. Obviously, opinons will vary.




seekerof

I have liked and agreed with more mayors than presidents and vps senators and ambassadors combined. That says something..not sure what it is..oh yeah! Local politicians quell the anger of the people by agreeing with them in public and selling them out behind closed doors. Right.

Local politicians are the only ones that can be trusted (some of the time). The other ones are away from home for too long..riding in cars with older boys and coming home with expensive gifts. You can confront your politicians, but they'll deny everything. Just get new ones.

Local is a good place to start. There have been some really great mayors. Firebrands, motivational speakers of the only variety I can stomach, real people with inteligence and opinions. Of course, the mayor of London probably just says all those things because he's going to be the next big time politician, and they all start out 'good.'

I certainly don't want to slander the man, because I know him only by reputation, but I will say this: politics is like football, there are rules. Guys who don't play by the rules often get hurt. The really good politicians are the ones who can keep everybody happy, masters and slaves. Mayors are in a particular pickle, and the crafty ones know how to play both sides.

This isn't even a good puppet show! It's too damn predictable. I prefer the global climate puppet show going on over there...

I have to think (without knowing the guy) that his comments were stupid for a public official...

if he were joe blow on the street... i would say "he has a point somewhat"

but as an official... you have to be PC... too bad really... the world needs more harsh truth.

the harsh truth is that Israel has done some bad things... and the leaders have also done bad things... (as have every country and leaders)

saying so doesn't make someone an "anti semite" any more than a person critisizing the USA middle east policy is a terrorist...

wrong is wrong

Anti semitis remarks would first of all require a "stereotypical image" of the Jew... describing jewish faith people as "greedy" or selfish... would be antisemitic... (which i'm am not saying, except as an example)



[edit on 4-3-2005 by LazarusTheLong]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Anti-Semitism 'on rise in Europe'

The study singles out Belgium, France, Germany, the Netherlands and Britain, where it says the rise in anti-Semitism has been of particular concern.

You all can defend him, as you are doing, but Mr. Livingston has just placed another foot in his mouth. Obviously, opinons will vary.

Anti-Islam is also seen as anti-semitism in the Netherlands. Mulsim people are called semites.

You all can defend him, as you are doing, but Mr. Livingston has just placed another foot in his mouth. Obviously, opinons will vary

That's good for him, and good for you to point out some irrelevent facts that nessecarily don't draw attention to his statment in regards to Israel's foriegn and domestic policy, and it's constant and perpetual warfare with Palestine.

Your apathy card won't work here. He may have called a journalist a "Nazi" , however, you failed to put into context the actualy intention of his remark. Not that a previous remarks against someone who happened to be a Jew - I don't think he was picking him out becuase of him being Jewish- should overlap this.

Deep



[edit on 4-3-2005 by ZeroDeep]

How would London's mayor know this. Did he come to the conclusion whilst sipping a cup of tea?

The mayor of London is a famous far-left liberal barking moonbat. I'd expect no less from him in terms of rhetoric.