The Origin of Consciousness

a reply to: surfer_soul

We are conscious of the fact we have dreamt but are not conscious of the fact we are dreaming or even conscious of the dream descision making until we awake more often than not. This i would suggest is the realm of the subconscious but yes agreed alot more to it than my nutshell explanation as didn't want to initiate thread drift into dreaming.

In a nutshell subconscious decision making is how we encounter emotions like guilt after all the conscious mind already made a decision and acted so unless the subconscious re evaluated that action then the conscious mind would have just moved on after all the decisions and actions had already been processed and acted apon.

So anyway for now we'll just have to agree to disagree for now and lets see what else others come up with.

I quote Maynard James Keenan

"Today young men on acid realized that all matter is purely energy condensed into a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death. Life is only a dream within the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather."

a reply to: FauxMulder

My first wife was certainly a nightmare!

a reply to: FauxMulder

I thought that was Bill Hicks?

A reply to CthruU

I don’t think discussing dreams is drifting from the topic of consciousness, it is related and I wanted to point out the matter of lucid dreams, where you are consciously aware you are dreaming and able to effect/make decisions. I have had close to lucid dreams but not truly lucid as I have become aware I’m dreaming I am generally becoming awake at the same time and the dream state begins to fade.

I don’t think the subconscious is responsible for feelings of guilt or such, we often act without thinking as it were and as such that would have been a subconscious decision. Guilt is the acknowledgment that are actions or words were inappropriate or hurtful to another.

There is the theory of the super conscious mind often called the higher self. Responsible for insights, inspiration, intuition and such. Sometimes called a quiet voice guiding us to do better. That might be what you’re thinking of in relation to feelings of guilt, if anything it would be our better selves prompting such feelings.

a reply to: surfer_soul

It is Bill Hicks, but put into a Tool Song.

a reply to: surfer_soul

Sleeping is actually the absense of consciousness. You are unconscious. Dreaming is a product of the unconscious mind and we can only ever become conscious of what we dreamt after we wake.

I can only imagine lucid dreaming to be a conscious attempt to ignore the conscious mind and let the unconscious mind flow unfiltered.

Does that sound weird?

Peace

Consciousness can only be aware of the past. It tries to grab the present (gets very close) but can't do it technically. This has always bothered me from a scientific standpoint. To me, it's time travel. What I feel, see, hear, taste is always in the past.

a reply to: operation mindcrime

Sleeping is a different state of consciousness not the absence of it, sleep paralysis is caused when that state is suddenly changed and we become consciously awake while still physically asleep. Scientists have measured the different brain waves while we sleep and we are in one particular brain wave while dreaming. I can’t recall off hand wether it is beta or theta or another one but you can look it up.

I think we are only truly unconscious while under a non local anaesthesia, or knocked out cold, for instance a surgeon can cut me up while I’m blacked out but I would soon wake if someone tried that while sleeping.

I don’t disagree that dreams are a product of the subconscious mind but we wouldn’t remember them if weren’t able to be consciously aware of them would we? If you’re unconscious you can’t be conscious at the same time.

Lucid dreaming is simply being aware you are dreaming and then being able to interact with the dream, I think if you try to manipulate the dream you end it though.
Like you said, you have to consciously let your subconscious mind flow unfiltered.

What do I know though and who cares what I have to say? Carry on.

Consciousness is that what remains when you remove all the senses.

The origin of consciousness is biology, the body, and the extent to which we are conscious is a one to one ratio with the body.

a reply to: surfer_soul

A sleeping person is unconscious to most of the things happening around him. The only difference between being under anaesthesia or knocked out cold is the fact that a sleeping person can be made conscious if the stimuli is strong enough.

Alpha and beta waves can be seem when the brain is conscious, relaxed and alert. When we sleep (or are knocked out cold) the brain waves slow down and theta and delta waves can be observed. I believe delta waves are the slowest and mark the deepest part of your sleep cycle.

I think that "remembering" your dream is not proof of your consciousness being around when you were dreaming. It is merely the subconscious making you aware of what it was doing while your conscious wasn't there.

I really have to look into lucid dreaming to understand the concept better but I thank you for trying to explain it. It would almost seem as if lucid dreaming was looking at your dream with peripheral vision, if you focus on it..it's gone.

Peace

a reply to: operation mindcrime

I was going to leave this thread alone, but think you deserve a reply from me so...

I’m aware that some people don’t dream or if they do they have no recollection of them. I am quite the opposite, my conscious hardly seems to shut down when I go to sleep, it feels sometimes like I haven’t even slept at all though I do feel rested and refreshed most mornings. When I’m trying to sleep my mind can either be racing or almost devoid of all thoughts yet I am aware, it often feels like I am hallucinating quite a different experience to my dreaming. In fact it’s only by recalling my dreams that I know I have truly slept.

I think it was you that said the subconscious is far more powerful than conscious, or words to that effect. I would agree, but it is the conscious mind where our free will exists as well as our sense of self. Now during sleep I have had access to profound knowledge that I didn’t even know I knew, is my subconscious communicating directly to me? It seems the most likely explanation but how is it I can’t access this info consciously? Or am I possibly tuned into another reality with another intelligence altogether? One thing is clear during these rare experiences my own conscious mind is equivalent to that of ant when compared to the intelligence of whatever was communicating with me.

I find the subject fascinating but unfortunately I’m not very good at communicating my thoughts on it. So while looking into lucid dreaming I recommend you also look up Rupert Sheldrake and his ideas about morphic fields/resonance.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: operation mindcrime

I think it was you that said the subconscious is far more powerful than conscious, or words to that effect. I would agree, but it is the conscious mind where our free will exists as well as our sense of self. Now during sleep I have had access to profound knowledge that I didn’t even know I knew, is my subconscious communicating directly to me? It seems the most likely explanation but how is it I can’t access this info consciously? Or am I possibly tuned into another reality with another intelligence altogether?

I was merely trying to explain how this works for most people. You seem to be experiencing it differently and it sounds like a blessing and a curse in one...

It is true the subconscious mind has much higher abilities then our conscious mind. It's like comparing an abacus to a quantum super computer. Maybe exposing our feeble conscious minds to direct interfacing with the unconscious mind would instantly turn us insane. We couldn't handle the flow of information.

Upon exploring this field one could actually start to question how free our free will actually is. I find it interesting that most spiritual learnings teach you to first get rid of the "self" in order to reach something higher...

Maybe your sleep experience is actually allowing you a sneak peak into a world where most knowledge is stored you didn't even know. You register far more than you are ever made aware of!!

find the subject fascinating but unfortunately I’m not very good at communicating my thoughts on it. So while looking into lucid dreaming I recommend you also look up Rupert Sheldrake and his ideas about morphic fields/resonance.

I will most certainly look into it and thank you for the suggestion...

Peace

a reply to: operation mindcrime

You are still conscious. Entropy does not cease to exist when you fall asleep.

a reply to: operation mindcrime

well yeh give psychedelics a go if you want to turn of those filters that limit all the info going to your braiN!

the subconscious and conscious are but two poles upon which the pendulum swings

I think we have our limitations here in the 3rd dimension but when you get out of this illusion and are free to wander in the other place then you don't really have the same limitations .

a reply to: AlienView

What if everything's conscious, from the idiot next door to every grain of sand.
I like to think we are ever evolving and one day we will evolve past matter and turn into little orange globes if pure energy......

a reply to: ManyMasks

the all is mind , the universe is mental!

"The Origin of Consciousness" came with the Creation Event when the 10+ Dimensional Multiverse sprang into existence

every Quanta sub atomic energy, every element/ every molecule of Creation is 'Conscious'...
the broad scope of Consciousness spans the Self-Awareness of complex organic systems all the way down to the 'Laws' which govern Gravity/Time/Metal deterioration/etc. of molecular clouds of interstellar gas and all inorganic stuff in the Dimensions of Physical Matter

Buddhism: Basic Beliefs and Practices | www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/religion/eastern/buddhism/buddhism/basic...

The basic doctrines of early Buddhism, which remain common to all Buddhism, include the four noble truths : existence is suffering ( dukhka ); suffering has a cause, namely craving and attachment ( trishna ); there is a cessation of suffering, which is nirvana ; and there is a path to the cessation of suffering, the eightfold path of right …

rain clouds are conscious... so too are Planet Earth, Whom we call Gaia and all of Natures components like rivers/mountains/ trees/ etc etc

Is that the answer people?

In a way you have the answer to your question in that simple sentence.

Everything can be broken down to math. A system of equations, or if you like questions and answers.

When something can ask a question, consciously or not, it has formed order from chaos.

Life is an answer to questions asked long ago. Not by a fluffy bearded man. But something created an equation from the infinite possibilities in the chaos. That is awareness.

But now we as answers are the ones doing math creating questions and getting new answers. 'Made in his image' means we are a reflection, an answer to an original creative consciousness. A creator again, is something that is conscious and can create order from the chaos. Our creator ability is what makes us the Creators refection, the human body is nothing to with anything.

It is infinite. And no one knows what it is. Never will, unless you match 100% every equation possible to pull from infinite possibilities

Sometimes I think the Big Big was really the first question. Or the new first question, we probably have had infinite big bangs.

Evolution is part of the conscious "mega equation" that permits order from chaos. There is order in the cosmos which is odd, given we live in entropic universe.

This topic is more metaphysics than evolution I think, but anyway, Physical math (creator magic), not applied math might be the next paradigm our great grand kids will learn about.

a reply to: zazzafrazz
I like to think of the big bang as consciousness suddenly becoming aware of itself
and then went onto manifest everything in order to undertand itself , exactly
how we can find all the answers by looking inwards as we are a refleciton of that cosmic consciousness
at the beginning and end of time and space it too also is looking inwards and manifesting all we percieve !

and I like to think no one will ever have the answer!