Why Police Shoot People

Frequently on ATS we see threads from members expressing outrage over police "abusing power" in cases that are questionable (from both side of the story) at best. We see a snippet of a video or read a short "eyewitness" account often biased ones from a relative of buddy of the individual who got shot by the police, and it is enough to make some instantly jump on the bandwagon on which the civilian is responsible for none of the blame and the cop is automatically hung on a cross while all of his or her colleagues are roasted over the coals. What is missed is the actual reason these shootings often happen. Yeah, sometimes the civilian is refusing to comply with orders and fiddling in their pockets after something non-dangerous, sometimes the cop shoots before the civilian's hand even fully yanks out of that pocket, and, in rare cases, sometimes there are examples of people who had no business in law enforcement outright killing someone, but those are the exception rather than the rule.

Article

APPLETON — Two Wisconsin officers were justified when they shot and killed a man who got in a gunfight with police that left a city firefighter dead in the crossfire last month, a prosecutor said.

Outagamie County District Attorney Melinda Tempelis said that Officer Paul Christensen and Sgt. Christopher Biese won’t face criminal charges.

Christensen and Biese exchanged shots with Ruben Houston, 47, of Wausau, on May 15 outside of Appleton’s downtown transit center. Christensen was wounded, along with a bystander. Both have been released from the hospital.

So, why were the police trying to take this animal to the hospital?

When the bus arrived at the transit center, a bus passenger thought Houston was having a seizure and called 911 for help. Lundgaard arrived with other firefighters and began providing aid to Houston.

Houston regained consciousness after responders determined he likely had suffered a drug overdose and gave him two doses of Narcan.

They had just saved the man's life from an overdose... this was how he repaid them.

As an aside, this is also a great testimony as to why Narcan shouldn't even exist. The list of addicts who turn violent and assault those trying to save their life after the Sammaritan administers a dose of Narcan is sure as hell longer than the list of addicts who have successfully cleaned up after nearly overdosing is. Had the officers shown here done the smart thing and let the natural consequences of the man's choices only impact him, personally, then firefighter Mitchell Lundgaard would be alive today and Appleton, Wisconsin would have one less hopeless addict draining their resources and rotting their society.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

It's obvious why these policemen had to shoot the guy.

Can you clarify your question please?

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: burdman30ott6

It's obvious why these policemen had to shoot the guy.

Can you clarify your question please?

The title isn't a question, it's a statement in answer to "Why do a lot of police shootings happen?" That answer, clearly, is because a lot of bad people won't hesitate to shoot at first responders given the chance.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I would go out on a limb here and say that these police shooting encounters never start with....

"Hello officer, what can I do for you"

Saw that video the other day on Police Activity.

What a # show of a situation. Drug OD, they get him back, next thing you know a firefighter is dead and a hostage was struck during the shootout.

When the man wouldn't lift his shirt that was the tip off. Suspects almost always lie.

Looks like a dose of Narcan got wasted.

It’s a shame that we have a ‘protect the criminal at all costs’ crowd who instantly blame the “evil” police

EVERY time

Wether it’s a car chase ending in the death of a scumbag thug , a shootout that kills a scumbag thug or a thug breaching his parole. It’s ALWAYS the fault of the police.

Hopefully they keep up the good work they do every day.

Even if you’re “in the right”, you DO what the ask of you.

The time of arrest IS NOT the time to argue your case. You do that at the station or the courthouse, not with an armed agitated policeman who HAS TO believe that you’re a piece of schit so that he keeps himself safe.

“Put your hands on your head” is NOT an ambiguous request

a reply to: burdman30ott6


Ummm...sounds as if dude was pissed cause the good samaritans cancelled his e-ticket ride to heaven...


So those wonderful officers helped dude along his path...


Win...win...







YouSir

The reasons cited most often by police for shooting someone is they failed to do as instructed or they resisted. This is only partially correct and subject to the circumstances involved.

We all saw the lequan mcdonald video. The cop who shot him said he (lequan) first refused to follow his orders, and second he (lequan) was a threat to the officer's life.

These are always what cops say after an officer-involved shooting. Unfortunately, the video showed that van dyke (the shooter) was the last cop to arrive on the scene, did not shout any orders to mcdonald and was not the closest officer to mcdonald at the time of the shooting. In other words, he lied. Repeatedly. Lequan did not refuse any orders van dyke was aware of. At least one other officer was closer to mcdonald than van dyke was but that officer never fired a single shot. Obviously, that other officer felt his life was not in danger, despite being closer to mcdonald than van dyke was.

In my opinion van dyke was one of many cops who just felt like it was their turn to shoot someone. There is no doubt in my mind that some of these cops are just thrill killers with badges. We saw it a lot in the military too. Guys usually enlist for one of three reasons; patriotic duty, nothing better going on, they want to kill people and not go to jail for it.

The other big excuse cops use is resisting. But that is a nebulous term. One video (which escapes me at the moment) shows a man on the ground with one cop standing on his neck, one cop laying across his legs, one cop holding his left arm, and one cop straddling his chest repeatedly punching him in the face while yelling, "Stop resisting!"

The only thing the guy on the ground was doing was trying to block or dodge the barrage of punches raining down on his face. But, that means resisting, so they had to shoot him. Self-preservation is a strong instinct. When someone is punching you in the face its damn near impossible to just stand there and let it happen. You duck, dodge, block, flinch, whatever. It's a natural reaction to the situation. According to the cops who shot him the only choice he could have made that would have saved his life was to just lay there and let the cop beat on him until he felt like stopping.

He was on the ground, cops holding his legs and one arm, one cop standing on his neck, and he was being beaten. His only crime at that moment was trying to protect himself.

Regardless of what transpired prior to that moment, it was that moment when police decided they had reason to kill him.

There seems to be a common thread with these ‘non-compliant videos’? Hummmmm what could be????

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Why Police Shoot People

I'll show you why:



See what I did there? Your thread is pointless.

Didn't change my opinion.


**** the Police.

originally posted by: mekhanics
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Why Police Shoot People

I can provide a video to suit my counter-argument.

Take Daniel Shaver for instance.

See what I did there? Your thread is pointless.

Didn't change my opinion.


**** the Police.

Way to get the nuance.

Either way, that video you posted boiled my blood when I saw it, but that aside, it was easy to see the mistakes(on both sides).

IIRC, he had an air gun(airsoft) gun he had apparently showed someone in his room. Which provides some context, but the biggest issues is that he kept pulling up his pants. From what I remember.

Lots of problems, two cops shouting two different things(hands up and crawl towards me). Being someone who had issues keeping his pants up(I have, and it's instinctual to reach down and hike them up).

He had a few drinks too IIRC, lending to the instinct to keep hiking them up. Honestly, if I had the state of mind I would have kept coming while my pants dropped down and my pecker was hanging out. But maybe a few drinks would have changed that.

That, situation you posted, was truly what could be called a tragedy.

ETA: I watch a lot of police body cam videos, I hope you do too, meaning I hope you see all the instances where police are literally "forced" into shooting people(usually with mental illness). I find the rate pretty staggering, I've seen an office walk backwards through 3 city blocks while a man swings a chain around calling for the officer to fire, until he eventually does as he's backed against a car.

It seems to be a societal disconnect where people just want to shovel off responsibility and/or when mind altering substances are involved. It is a sort of epidemic in many ways(on both sides). It's easy to dehumanize either side, but at the end of the day I think it's important to remember that both lose. One may die, but the other will have the mental illness/substance abuse and pain transferred onto them for the rest of their lives.

Sometimes..most of the time, the casualty makes it so.
Sometimes they are scared, have sh#tty training, sh#tty training that tells them, go ahead. And sometimes, you are dealing with someone who cant wait for the opportunity..see above(mekhanics vid) that cop, had his gun engraved with "you're f@cked" this goof was waiting for a chance.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Quite simply it's the domino knock on effect of the scourage of drugs.

Everyone's jittery and paranoid for the most part, the police are walking a fine line with constant gun crime and the plain saturation of M.O's that keep rearing it's ugly head (hatred for police), The crim's more often than not drug effected or on their second srtrike with nothing to loose fight to the bitter end for fear of the consequences of that third strike and your out.

I don't for the most part think Narcan is the catalyst but rather it's the tortured mind dealing with a intense tug of war when forced back from it's shutdown creating a fight or flight response - once aroused from the shutdown the realization of being surrounded by authoritive figures if armed forces a kneejerk reaction from a mind that's well chemically unbalanced beyond comprehension.

Cops shoot because it's self defense, it's fair enough in most but not all cases and for those which are not - ie the Australian women shot -the law has proven it can take care of business.

But yes! Let em o.d - one less burden on a system that they clearly are thumbing their noses at anyway. A hard line yes, but as the old saying goes "sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind".

May they rest in peace.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

In saying that though alot (if not the vast majority) of police are badge shiners instead of just badge wearers so no wonder the hatred runs so deep.

Attitudes in approach of citizens are disgusting they approach with a guilty before innocent agenda, once again no wonder the hatred runs so deep.

Dammed if you do Dammed if you don't. Is it any wonder there's no sense in it all.

Solution is simple but no one wants to hear it and here it is-

No guns for anyone including law enforcement- cops carry tazers, only military carry guns.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Well if this drug they used to get him out of his stupor was known to cause violent behavior. They probably should have left him to OD and twitch his way into the next life.

I think today in the age of the internet most people are over there one size fits all theories of what happens or why police shoot.

Its quite literally a mixed bag of a whole bunch of different things all set in different situation. You take a thousand people and put them in a room and ask them different questions on even the mildest subjects, your going to get a thousand different reactions and opinions and idiosyncrasies.

You take those same people and ask them whos there favorite politician, and the silliness would last for days. So the question of why police shoot, good cop, bad cop, bad day, or just out for fun. And a million other things. Well the answer would be. All of the above and then some, depending on the day, time, place, people involved, and #load of other factors.

a reply to: CthruU

Could be, and the drugs dont do or stir anything that was not there to begin with.

Like they say, there are violent drunks, but here are also happy drunks. Either way both end up with headaches the day after.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: CthruU

Could be, and the drugs dont do or stir anything that was not there to begin with.

Like they say, there are violent drunks, but here are also happy drunks. Either way both end up with headaches the day after.

Can't argue with that logic.

But i will say this - why didn't they take the 2 seconds to pat him down before administering the narcon especially if their under the illusion that it creates an undesirable response once administered?

I think maybe they will from now on.

I wish people would get the story straight.. The guy was as calm as can be, UNTIL the police offer to take him against his will without charges. What does the constitution say? I in no way condone this man's behavior but to me, he only gets mad when they want to haul him off.