Noa Pothoven of Arnhem in the Netherlands is legally euthanised

a reply to: Blaine91555

I bet they don't. Because there is no easy clean way out on your own. It's either getting bloody, or with a lot of agony and the success rate is also not very promising.

a reply to: Peeple

Not true, but if you can't work it out, maybe it's best you don't know how easy it is to do it painlessly at home. I'm sure most people can and I have no interest in laying it out in this thread. It's not even on topic here, so lets stick to the topic at hand; a 17 year old person who was let down by the State, parents and all involved.

a reply to: Blaine91555

And you know they didn't fulfill her dream instead for sure? How? Were you there?

a reply to: Peeple

I've already expressed my view on this fully. This is not a topic to debate just for the sake of debate. 17 is too young and the State should not be in the business of offing suicidal teens.

Suicide at 17 is not a dream, it's a travesty.

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: DBCowboy
The only reason government is involved is because they made suicide illegal to begin with.

They have also regulated assisted suicide. They made themselves the arbiters of our own bodies.

Individuality, self-determination is paramount in any society that wants to call itself free.

Exactly right. If you don't have the right to choose when you leave the ship, you're not truly free at all.

I think the reason so many are shocked (as I am) and appalled, is because we are emotional creatures and there is an element of injustice. Especially with this specific issue.

Her rapists actually killed her.

She just took 3 years to finally die.

I know, and that's a poetic way of describing soul death, too. Sad, but poetic.

But it pisses me off to no end how we view human pain and suffering, versus our pets. We'd never, ever make our beloved pets live through terminal diseases if we can give them the compassion of euthanizing them before it gets really bad. Grandma Ethel on the other hand? She can die naturally, all the pain and suffering in the world isn't enough to make assisted suicide anything but evil. But Fido's leukemia does, How f#d up is that? Very. it's very f#d up. We put the pain & suffering of our pets over our loved ones. We can't be bothered to treat them as humanely as we do the family DOG.

I'm not even going to get into the freedom of choice end, as much as I'd like to see people eventually respect eachother's choices enough to go that route. If nothing else, we need to offer our dying the same humane choices we offer Fido and Fluffy. Otherwise, we really don't care at all about them, and it's just another layer of control over people.

We're dealing with the ultimate emotional issue, death.

We can be rational all day long, but if selling my soul to the devil would get me 5 more minutes with my wife, then consider it SOLD!

a reply to: Blaine91555

The state was allowing it. They didn't do it.

And you really should try to consider the depths of her suffering were (kind of hopefully) deeper than you know or can imagine. This was not some teenager having a crisis.

The brain isn’t even fully formed and developed anatomically until the mid twenties. There are those in power that know this and still allowed her to be put down. The end is near.

a reply to: mobiusmale

Not mature enough to make the decision morally to want to end her life, and you think she should instead find purpose by deciding at 17 that she should become a baby factory?

What the f is wrong with you?

originally posted by: mobiusmale
This kind of thinking is a very dangerous and slippery slope.

Why? Believe it or not, some people really do feel they would be better off dead... and many would be.

If I could have the state put me down with doctor supervision, I would sign up in an instant. The only reason I don't, is that I don't have enough confidence in myself to not botch the attempt and leave myself a cripple, trapped in a shell that's being forced to stay alive.

Forcing people to stay alive against their will is absolute torture and agony. At least people who are being put through torture in prison know that one day their captors will tire of them and either let them out or kill them. When you're looking at 50+ years of an unbearable life left though... what possible thing is there to look forward to?

a reply to: Gargoyle91

I find that case so disturbing.

I went through a phase where I was obsessed with near death experiences, the afterlife, etc. and hadn't found satisfaction in the religion I was raised in to answer that. So I spent a lot of time reading the stories on NDERF. One amazing thing was the broader consistency of experiences and one of the more horrifying things were the accounts of near death experiences of those who either attempted suicide, or wound up encountering the souls of those who'd committed suicide.
The place they went to was described as a void, extremely lonely, beyond even the loneliness experienced in life, a dismal Sheol-type realm. In some stuff I've read about reincarnation, if you commit suicide, you are put back to square one and start a new life, but you have to go through the exact same # that sent you on the path to suicide. Maybe all of that is drivel and there's nothing but oblivion for everyone, but what if there isn't? What if her soul has been damned by this act? I've had a few inlaws or family members die of terminal illness and even then, hospice seemed better than active euthanasia. Their bodies shut off when it was time for them to go.

One other point, for people who think the above is religious nuttery or that she may already feel her life is as someone damned....

Given the social engineering experiments that go on... was there possibly behind-the-scenes manipulating this poor girl? Just by presenting a vulnerable and mentally disturbed young woman with suicide being a valid option.... and nudging her subtly towards it...that she'd be free of pain and suffering after, that there is no God or afterlife or karma, that's all fiction... that you'll be less of a burden on your family... that your mental state will never ever change or get better... you'll never find love or have a career like a normal person... All as a 'trial balloon' test case to see how the public responds, and then with the next test case push a little further. And normalize euthenasia for a wider range of people in the future even for those with short term problems like a relationship breakdown, or not getting into the college you wanted.

As much as I understand she was going through serious trauma, I can not condone state sanctioned suicide. Dont want to really debate it here tho. This whole story is just too sad the whole way around......

double post

ATS is being wonky lately

a reply to: Annagramma

If there is a (benevolent) God, it would be all for suicide as a way out of an unbearable life.

May her poor tortured soul r.i.p.And dam the pedophiles who drove her to this.

originally posted by: Nyiah
Death is the one thing we should have utmost control over, not others. NEVER others. Deciding whether to end the game or not on YOUR terms should be held more near & dear than anything else, because it's the freest choice we all collectively have on this damned planet. Removing that ability to make the choice is an abomination.

Man, if we can only make life a living hell for 5 billion we can cull this herd quite good.

I would need to think, how the hell did the human race make it so far if this is what it take to kill oneself. I think it is a good deal her environment that she grew up in to put her in such a mentality from a bad situation... Seems to me the doctors never actually helped in anyway and maybe even made matters worst for her.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Many people have killed themselves for far less.

This sort of experience is something quite common for people to have killed themselves over from pretty much the start of recorded history.

I'm amazed that on a website which claims to believe in people having a right to self determination, they're so against people wanting to get out of their suffering when nothing else helps.

Being a rape victim who has had many personal battles over the years. My heart weeps for this girl. Personally I feel the will to die is so foreign to me and believe experiences in life offer drive determination and motivation. The state, psychologist who sanctioned this are a spoke in the wheel of progress. The strongest activist against such atrocities and every other bad thing that happens is the victim that refuses to lay down. Who knows how many lives and changes this girl could have advocated for so what happened to her didn't happen to the next.

The world is a big place and those whom stay in a place they cant escape are in a prison of their own making.

a reply to: Peeple

She was 17

Again you expect others to do your research for you.

en.wikipedia.org...

the patient is at least 12 years old (patients between 12 and 16 years of age require the consent of their parents)

a reply to: Guiltyguitarist

The brain isn’t even fully formed and developed anatomically until the mid twenties. There are those in power that know this and still allowed her to be put down. The end is near.

So you going to push for all those countries to ban people under 20 from driving or drinking?
How about entering contracts?

a reply to: mobiusmale

Seems like this had to have been encouraged. Sick.