Majority of Conservative Party Members Oppose Theresa May’s Plans and Would Prefer No-Deal

The poll was conducted by YouGov and surveyed over 1,200 members of the Conservative party , the people Tory MPs need to keep them in their job.
Results of the poll make for interesting reading , 59 % of Tory party members opposed Mrs May’s deal with 57 % preferring a No deal Brexit over the deal , which is higher than I would have expected , just 15 % wanted to remain in the EU.

As the poll was conducted with rank and file subscription paying members the results are bound to put more pressure on Mrs May and her MPs and remind her that No deal is better than a bad (her) deal ... as it stands.

The survey showed large majorities of members think both that a no-deal Brexit will have a positive impact on the economy in the medium to long term and that warnings of disruption have been exaggerated.

A slim majority, 51 per cent, said they thought Ms May was doing “well”, but almost as many, 48 per cent said she was doing “badly” to some degree.
www.independent.co.uk...

Never thought I'd see the day where I agree with Tory party members

The clock is ticking.

edit on 4-1-2019 by gortex because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: gortex

The clock is ticking.

That's the big thing though Gorty...the clock is indeed ticking, and there is no way anyone is prepped to handle the new regs on borders in a smooth transitory manner, and the N Ireland hard border is not even resolved in any form.
The DUP stance on the Irish border is invalid where they say they do not wish Northern Ireland to be treated differently from the rest of the UK...because most often, N Ireland has a history of having different treatment, often in ways that were and are more preferential to parties like the DUP, making the DUP hypocrites. The DUP are also totally ignoring the NI results in the referendum which was to remain in the EU, while they bum up to Westminster MPs.

a reply to: smurfy

The way the "negotiations" and planning have been carried out by this government has been mind blowing , the deal is a result of Chamberlain politics , acquiescence and fear ... I wouldn't trust this lot to organize the proverbial in a brewery.

The DUP were given the balance of power by May so I guess they're using it to their advantage , the backstop is a problem but in the 21st century I'm not sure it should be , I don't have the answers but there must be a reason we pay so much to our elected leaders.

What's an MP? Or a Tory? What's a Brexit? You talk funny...you a foreigner or something?



I like the Chamberlin reference...I have been using it for a while and usually have to explain myself.

a reply to: smurfy

That's what she is hoping for. She is hoping that the clock runs out so the MPs will have no choice but to vote through her plan (upon which I predict she will step down once it passes into law that is). Her plan is a bad plan. It is Brexit in name only. I voted Leave and this is not what I voted for but there would be two things that would lead me to backing her deal (If I were an MP that is and as a Leave voter) and that is a legally binding time limit and ability for us to walk away from the backstop if WE (the UK) believe that there is no real progress.

I've been reading and watching a lot of interviews lately from some of the big wigs from the EU who are pushing or attempting to push the idea of the EU having more control over countries with Merkel even saying that countries have to be prepared to give up sovereignty and more to the point that the EU has told France and it's limp wristed leader Macron that he can have a years break but has to then has to push the new tax cuts through, you know the ones that the Yellow Vests fought against.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: smurfy

The way the "negotiations" and planning have been carried out by this government has been mind blowing , the deal is a result of Chamberlain politics , acquiescence and fear ... I wouldn't trust this lot to organize the proverbial in a brewery.

Agreed, the bugbear is Westminster..but it always has been. What the EU has done has brought the UK out of sheer poverty for most, the clout the EU has as a cooperative is immense, and our tiny island has little to offer when it comes out of the system, not only that, because we were never fully integrated into the EU, we never got a proper nationwide re-structured infrastructure, and likely never will now.
What I'm afraid of in this poll, is that those people interviewed still do not know what is likely to happen, most probably their main objections are about to immigrants, however its the economy that really counts, and we soon won't have much of one, and we will be back in Westminster's hands so they may lord it it over us all once again, just as was done for centuries.

Gotta disagree there smurfy, the EU didn't bring the uk out of poverty, it was just global timing when Uk entered the emu that finance took off and uk money markets were always making money in an unregulated market . Ur right that we didn't get a restructured regulated infrastructure, which made U.K. More attractive worldwide, hence they're reluctance to embed with a regulated eu , that's why ul find its old 80's tories that have eu ties as remainers, as well as hippy liberals that want everyone living in bear grylls tent on Dover beach
a reply to: smurfy

Gotta disagree there smurfy, the EU didn't bring the uk out of poverty, it was just global timing when Uk entered the emu that finance took off and uk money markets were always making money in an unregulated market . Ur right that we didn't get a restructured regulated infrastructure, which made U.K. More attractive worldwide, hence they're reluctance to embed with a regulated eu , that's why ul find its old 80's tories that have eu ties as remainers, as well as hippy liberals that want everyone living in bear grylls tent on Dover beach
a reply to: smurfy

Gotta disagree there smurfy, the EU didn't bring the uk out of poverty, it was just global timing when Uk entered the emu that finance took off and uk money markets were always making money in an unregulated market . Ur right that we didn't get a restructured regulated infrastructure, which made U.K. More attractive worldwide, hence they're reluctance to embed with a regulated eu , that's why ul find its old 80's tories that have eu ties as remainers, as well as hippy liberals that want everyone living in bear grylls tent on Dover beach
a reply to: smurfy

Except we can't do a 'no deal' anyway, because it violates our treaty obligations in the Stormont treaty. So it's all just the Tories trying to bluff the EU .

And it won't work. Because the EU knows we can't violate our treaty obligations. So really the bluff is as masterful as... everything else the Tories have done lately.

But hey, hasn't stopped them throwing 115 million pounds away for absolutely no reason, to a dodgy shipping company that owns no ships and facilities, and what's that, not one but two EU shipping companies? Yes, truly this is 'taking back control'.

Head. Desk.

originally posted by: Dwoodward85
a reply to: smurfy

That's what she is hoping for. She is hoping that the clock runs out so the MPs will have no choice but to vote through her plan (upon which I predict she will step down once it passes into law that is). Her plan is a bad plan. It is Brexit in name only. I voted Leave and this is not what I voted for but there would be two things that would lead me to backing her deal (If I were an MP that is and as a Leave voter) and that is a legally binding time limit and ability for us to walk away from the backstop if WE (the UK) believe that there is no real progress.

Isn't ^^^^that^^^^ it in a nutshell??

The EU are not prepared to give up that ..... They want that final power to

keep the UK in line ..... their line.

originally posted by: Midnite247
Ur right that we didn't get a restructured regulated infrastructure, which made U.K. More attractive worldwide, hence they're reluctance to embed with a regulated eu , that's why ul find its old 80's tories that have eu ties as remainers, as well as hippy liberals that want everyone living in bear grylls tent on Dover beach
a reply to: smurfy

80's tories remainers is beside the point, I'm 72 and though I'm from Kent and old enough to see how bad it was for most people from the late 1940's onwards, nor am I stupid enough to think that the UK doesn't badly need new infrastructure...and infrastructure done right can only be a good thing for the future.
That new infrastructure will not happen from the coffers of Westminster..dammit they don't even repair the piggin' potholes...and the hidden damage costs in millions sterling for that one 'small' scenario alone. You're kidding yourself mate.

a reply to: eletheia

Yep, the EU must have been laughing themselves to death when she plopped her deal on the table. I mean apparently they agreed to it in 45 minutes (or just under) and signed it all up. Could you just imagine if we let this happen, if this is allowed to happen. Sadly I think Brexit is going to be stopped. I think the government will fail to get her deal through and they'll either throw it back to the people or say that we're caught up in the EU so much that there is no way out and so she'll find a way to stop it.

I've been saying for a while now that this is all for show. The deadlock, the arguments, everything we've been seeing the last few months is all for show. They will find a way to over turn the vote and we will not leave. I voted to leave for many reasons but if they over turn it and we don't leave then I'm either going to stop voting completely or give my vote to the worst of the worst party. I'll just not bother with it anymore because it would be a clear message that my voice doesn't matter.

originally posted by: Dwoodward85
a reply to: eletheia

Yep, the EU must have been laughing themselves to death when she plopped her deal on the table.

It wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't some collusion between the EU and May to

arrive at the terms that she, is the only one who believes it to be a 'good deal'

I mean apparently they agreed to it in 45 minutes (or just under) and signed it all up.

Why wouldn't they...... the UK would be bound in tighter and silenced for all time!! ''

Could you just imagine if we let this happen, if this is allowed to happen. Sadly I think Brexit is going to be stopped. I think the government will fail to get her deal through and they'll either throw it back to the people or say that we're caught up in the EU so much that there is no way out and so she'll find a way to stop it.

In this day and age I cannot conceive of how any *free* country or persons can be

stopped from leaving anywhere, its a contradiction in terms. It's akin to kidnap

and imprisonment.

a reply to: eletheia

It isn't about Freedom anymore. It's about how much freedom that we're allowed to have. The EU has banned certain types of speech, there are claims that there are looking to ban criticisms of the EU structure itself (according to a few of the claims made in the EU Council secession I've watched). Also, I do agree that there must have been some collusion between May and the EU. I actually think it is closer than we think.

The funny part is that when parliament was given the right to a meaningful vote, I was like "Great this is how they'll over turn Brexit" and yet if it wasn't for that meaningful vote we would've been the EUs whipping boy for decades, then again I still think this'll be used to over turn the results.

Never thought I'd say this but thoroughly bored with it all.

For me its pretty simple - No deal and force them to come to us.

27% of all German cars are sold in the UK....don't buy them.
Those holidays in Spain and Portugal....go somewhere else.

Sure you get the drift.

They'll soon come running.

Its been a complete shambles from the moment the coward Cameron jumped ship and dumped a whole load of crap on his successor.
May's subsequent failure to do anything constructive at all for at least a year and then her lack of a detailed plan to start negotiations gifted the EU a strong hand in those lamentable deliberations....all possibly by design?

The people who infest Westminster are massively pro-EU - MP's of all political persuasions, Civil Servants etc - and the last thing they want is to alter the status quo.

Personally I'd love to see Westminster Bridge decorated with the heads of all those responsible for this debacle as a message to all those who seek to betray the people.

a reply to: Freeborn

See I'm with you on all that even the heads decorating the bridge (we'll be investigated now for threats to the government lol) but the bored part I'm half and half. Yes it is boring because we seeing the same thing over and over, hearing the same people over and over and hearing the same sticking points from both sides over and over but they want you to be bored. They want the nation, this Great Nations citizens to be bored with Brexit so that they can get it done in the way that suits them and the remainers rather than the people who actually gave them the order to get us out.

I also agree we should leave and have them come to us. Apparently we do more trade with the rest of the world than we do with the EU, we buy more from the EU than they do from us, we should've given them a year (to be generous) and tell them to make us a real offer or we walk and then any tariff they put our way we do the same to them, trade won't stop, hell the world doesn't end when it comes to a no deal Brexit. I've started to think that remainers don't have faith in their own country to go it alone, something we've been doing for thousands of years.

An important thing to remember in all of this, is that the EU is laughing themselves to the bank: They are sitting back and watching the people of the sixth wealthiest nation of the planet, one of the most powerful countries on the planet, one of the leading countries in technology, security etc. the rest of the world is waiting with baited breath to do real trade deals and for some strange reason these people forget that the EU has stagnated while the rest of the world (trade talking) is growing and growing.

originally posted by: Dwoodward85
a reply to: Freeborn

They want you to be bored. They want the nation, this Great Nations citizens to be bored with Brexit so that they can get it done in the way that suits them and the remainers rather than the people who actually gave them the order to get us out.

'' They are boring us to death!!

I also agree we should leave and have them come to us. Apparently we do more trade with the rest of the world than we do with the EU, we buy more from the EU than they do from us, we should've given them a year (to be generous) and tell them to make us a real offer or we walk and then any tariff they put our way we do the same to them, trade won't stop, hell the world doesn't end when it comes to a no deal Brexit.

'''' Why would we be looking up to the EU?

Germany hits the skids as its much admired motor industry misfires
With all eyes on Brexit shenanigans in the House of Commons, it would be easy to miss the fact that not all is well in the eurozone.
It is no secret that Italy is on its knees, as has been the case for the last two decades. But what is a surprise is the deterioration in Germany, which broadly represents one-third of all the output across the 17-country single currency region.
The German economy shrank by 0.2 per cent in the third quarter and indicators suggest it could be just as weak, if not weaker, in the final months of the year.

If so, Germany would be in 'technical recession', defined as two successive quarters of shrinking output.
ndustrial production, the core of Germany's economy, shrank by 1.9 per cent in November. The decline was fuelled by volatile energy output.

More fascinating is how Germany's much-admired motor industry is misfiring. Car production was down by 1.8 per cent in December and currently is 9 per cent below its June peak.
The German car makers, disgraced as a result of Volkswagen cheating on emissions, are struggling with the innovation required to meet new stringent pollution tests.
They could face even more struggles ahead as diesel is regulated out of existence and competitors make advances in hybrid and electric cars.

An important thing to remember in all of this, is that the EU is laughing themselves to the bank: They are sitting back and watching the people of the sixth wealthiest nation of the planet, one of the most powerful countries on the planet, one of the leading countries in technology, security etc.

As the saying goes "He who laughs last laughs longest" The EU has no

reason to laugh......

Moreover, it is not just Italy's banks which are troubling eurozone stability.
Deutsche Bank's problems have been well aired. The German regional banks are weighed down with non-performing loans, with NordLB in need of a state or national bailout if it is to be made safe.
Current global trade disruption is also having an impact with German exports falling 0.4pc in November. That may be taken as a further sign of a worsening environment but there is no escaping the fact that it still has a whopping trade surplus, much of it the result of exports to the eurozone.

www.dailymail.co.uk...


They have no reason to laugh at us.''

There are other unhappy EU members along with Italy, Greece, Spain,Hungary

and France .........When the UK leaves the door will b e wide open to them.

a reply to: eletheia

The backstop isn't really a proper issue though - it is just being made out to be that. But don't take my word for it, look at what Geoffrey Cox, the Attorney General, has to say on it.

Under the terms of the backstop, for example, French, Danish, Dutch and Belgian fisherman are not legally allowed into UK Waters to fish - realistically, how long do you think they would give their governments to sort that out? I can guarantee it would not be long before it was sorted. There are numerous other examples that also demonstrate it would not be for long - allowing it to linger woud be domestic political suicide in many EU nations.

But hey, i guess all the keyboard warriors out there understand the legal ramifications far better than the Attorney General - right?

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: eletheia

The backstop isn't really a proper issue though - it is just being made out to be that. But don't take my word for it, look at what Geoffrey Cox, the Attorney General, has to say on it.

He might convince you.....I am far more cynical. Everything concerning the EU

is done by stealth.

The EU has come a long way from the EEC the common market which the UK

originally joined.

The EU is for a selected elite.

It would keep the whole of the UK tied to EU customs rules, unless the two sides come up with another way of avoiding border checks.

Under the EU withdrawal agreement, neither side can unilaterally withdraw from it - but it is meant to be temporary.

Geoffrey Cox told MPs: "We are indefinitely committed to it if it came into force. There is no point in my trying any more than the government trying to disguise that fact.

He said he would have preferred to see a clause inserted into the EU withdrawal agreement that allowed the UK to exit the backstop if negotiations "had irretrievably broken down".

But he added: "I am prepared to lend my support to this agreement because I do not believe that we are likely to be entrapped in it permanently."

He said Theresa May's deal "represents a sensible compromise".

"I am prepared to lend my support to this agreement because I do not believe that we are likely to be entrapped in it permanently."

You think because he's an Attorney General he cant be taken in?

He said Theresa May's deal "represents a sensible compromise".

We didn't vote for a compromise, We voted to leave, and all we are

getting is 'surrender and relinquish'


ETA. Just been watching his performance in Parliament (on the news) looked like

he was in court!!........ I think he's after a 'knighthood'