Pope Francis changes prayer Our Father the words of Jesus himself

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: TerryDon79

Killing isn't a sin, murder is.

Sorry, murder.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Lucifer and Satan are the same individual...
Lucifer was the highest of all God’s creation...
It refers to his countenance...
After he sinned and was stripped of his blessings he became known as Satan...

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: TzarChasm

Are you my captor?
What kind of drugs are you on?

In a certain sense we are all God's prisoners.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: TerryDon79

I just know anything you say is nothing of importance...
I just love drawing out those who hate the Lord...
It’s not my book there lil terry, it’s God’s book...
Let’s start off there...

So you can avoid what I said? No ta.

Your god of your special book has committed various sins.

a reply to: 2012newstart

So Jesus who spoke Aramaic Galilean? Was translated into Greek? That was translated into ye old English?
And you prefer what exactly?
If you were a real bible scholar and you sure as hell are not
What language would you ...
Those last three dots are an ellipses
It means I want you to imagine how I finish the sentence because you sure need to think it through more than you have

You are reading Christ’s words filtered from Aramaic to Greek into old English and you think you can understand it
Silly so silly

a reply to: TzarChasm

You would have to believe in God in order to believe that, then you would also have to be incapable of choice like to ridicule him or his believers...
So are you his captive?

a reply to: TzarChasm

Can you in your wisdom extrapolate that please TD

The pope is to be remembered for fixing the Lord's Prayer instead of fixing abuse of boys by clergy.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: TzarChasm

Lucifer and Satan are the same individual...
Lucifer was the highest of all God’s creation...
It refers to his countenance...
After he sinned and was stripped of his blessings he became known as Satan...

The problem with the answers previously given here, and what the majority of English-speaking Christians believe, is that it comes from a perspective of the English translation of the Bible. The Bible isn't of English origin. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew (and called Tanach in that language), and the New Testament was written in Greek.

Lucifer isn't the devil. It certainly isn't the name of an angel, fallen or otherwise. The angels of God who are named in the Bible (Michael and Gabriel) have Hebrew names, even in the NT (again, which was written in Greek). The names of angels who war against God are also given by their Hebrew names (satan [Re 12:9] and abaddon [Re 9:11]). In fact, all the names of individuals who are of Hebrew ancestry are given by their Hebrew names in the NT, transliterated (not translated) into Greek, and from Greek into English.

The word Lucifer doesn't even actually occur in the original Bible texts because lucifer is a Latin word (it means light-bearer). The word in the OT translated Lucifer in Is 14:12 is heylel, used only once and derived from halal (1984 of Strong's Hebrew Concordance), a verb meaning to shine.

In Greek, the word for light-bearer is φωσφόρος, transliterated phosphoros, and used once in the NT,

καὶ ἔχομεν βεβαιότερον τὸν προφητικὸν λόγον ᾧ καλῶς ποιεῖτε προσέχοντες ὡς λύχνῳ φαίνοντι ἐν αὐχμηρῷ τόπῳ ἕως οὗ ἡμέρα διαυγάσῃ καὶ φωσφόρος ἀνατείλῃ ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν

which we have in one English translation as,

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed , as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn , and the day star arise in your hearts… – 2 Pe 1:19, KVJ

Lucifer, or more correctly, light-bearer, isn't a name. Like Christ (Anointed One), it's a title. A rank signifying delegated authority, which God bestowed on Adam (along with the armor corresponding to that rank) when He gave him dominion over the creatures of Earth, but not dominion over Earth itself (Ge 1:28). Through Adam's disobedience he surrendered his title (and thus his armor) to the devil. It's when the armor was taken Adam and Eve could see they were naked. (Ps 104:2; Ro 13:12)

Jesus was appointed Anointed One (Christ) after the Baptism of John (giving Jesus authority on Earth in parallel to the lucifer of that time). After His death, He stripped satan of the authority and armor he took from Adam (Luke 11:22), and the keys of death and hell, and rose from the dead. He then entered into the Holiest of All with His Blood, making restitution for Man's sins and cleansing the vessels therein and the armor. The Father then appointed Him lucifer (He 9:23, 24), giving Him dominion over Earth and the creatures of Earth (MT 28:18. Ge 1:26.)

Early Christians certainly didn't believe lucifer was the name of the devil. The Latin translation of the NT uses the Latin word for light-bearer once, for the same verse,

et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris, 2 Pe 1:19

The reason why most English-speaking Christians believe the devil is lucifer today? because he knew that by such deceit, few would attempt to challenge him directly, thinking first of all he was given total authority, and that he still had it. But he's a liar, never having had complete authority to begin with, and being completely stripped of any authority he did have over the Earth and man. (Ge 1:28, MT 4:8; 28:18, He 2:14)

In Jesus, the Anointed One (Christ) and Light-Bearer, mankind has been raised higher than Adam was, and the devil is once again roaming the Earth, tempting men individually, but never able to again rule us all.

Sorry for the huge quote but there's a bit of explaining involved.

a reply to: 2012newstart

Let me ask in that way: Did Jesus pronounce these words, or not?

Did Jesus explicitly said, I am GOD, worship me?

NO.

Did JESUS came for GENTILES? NO.

But Jesus did not answer a word. So His disciples came and urged Him, “Send her (GENTILE) away, for she keeps crying out after us.” 24. He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

He will come (second coming) and rectify above by saying this to gentiles:

Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23. And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!

You have no fkin idea!

a reply to: TzarChasm

Sorry that’s just not right...
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...

This is all I have to say about the personification of man vs nature, even though it not me saying it.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. 
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. 
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? 
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Epicurus

a reply to: Specimen

God can prevent it. It's as simple as removing free will and free thought. He can control our every action and we will have no choice.

Are you signing up for that?

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: TzarChasm

Can you in your wisdom extrapolate that please TD

We are his property trapped in his prison, being punished simply for existing precisely as he foresaw and engineered. Usually the Free Will argument is introduced at this point but did he not create that as well? Or is free will beyond his omnipotent power which would suggest he has no free will and neither do we? I'm asking the real questions here.

a reply to: TerryDon79

God doesn't murder anyone.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Specimen

God can prevent it. It's as simple as removing free will and free thought. He can control our every action and we will have no choice.

Are you signing up for that?

Who is to say he isn't already doing it??

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: TerryDon79

God doesn't murder anyone.

Sure. The god of the bible just replaces someones life with a not life lol.

a reply to: mekhanics

This is the exact loophole which allowed Christ to keep his word to Israel and then to “goto sheep not of this fold” he had to come for Israel and be rejected by his own and die for it... You know to fulfill prophecy...
Surely if you were right he wouldn’t command his disciples to go forth to all nations...
Or do you believe all nations were full of Jews at that time?
lol
Also what do you suppose Jesus is calling himself? when he says many will say to me Lord...

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Idk, it depends on ones pov.

The story of Adam and Eve says in most of the canonical book says that God had two primates in secular garden with huge tree with shiney fruit hang from it. And god specifically told his children not to bite it, and like most innocent children they will do the opposite of what is said, with talking garden snake inconviently just showing up when ever walk up to the tree and the omniscient God suddenly just turned a blind eye not after eve bit the fruit, b

Then there the Gnosis take on it where the serpent( who said to be Jesus) gave humanity it free will with the help of the aeons an Sophia in-order to weaken the Demiurge power over the material.

a reply to: Specimen

If they ate the fruit they already had free will.