USA Health Care Delusion - Are you Afflicted?

The richest country on earth, and the hard-working middle class can still lose everything they have, and go into hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, because of a mismanaged, chaotic, and corrupt medical system. Some hard-working people seem to be brainwashed, and can’t see any deeper than their political parties’ agenda, thus creating blinders of ignorance.

The more confusion that is created, the easier it is to divide the masses. Who runs the show?

It’s no secret that the USA government can’t agree on the color of crap, however when it comes to rolling over for corporate interests, they can all agree on the color of green.

Free medical care is a moronic term, that people, politicians, and anyone trying to speak intelligently should stop using, because we all know that services cost. Our biggest problem is a broken system, that the greedy corporate interests do not want to fix, because it’s extremely easy to financially fleece the masses.

Example:

My son had diaria for a little over a week, so we decided to take him in to the pediatrician. We explained, to the doctor, that we had catastrophic insurance, which we pay $400 a month for anyhow, and that everything was a 20% co-pay after a 10k deductible, no doctors’ visits, no tests, and 50% prescription coverage. The doctor suggested a single stool-sample, so we agreed, but only before we knew what it would any of the costs. Doctor said don’t worry it’s around $50.

A week later we received a bill for $1295.00 for 6 separate tests on a stool-sample, the average cost for a bacterial stool sample, in our area, was about $40-$80. Even at $100 the cost shouldn’t have been over $600. We called the doctor she blamed the lab, the lab blamed her, and we threatened legal action because it was way over the national average, and we didn’t authorize 6 tests. We finally settled for $120, and never went back to that doctor. This is only a slice of what’s transpiring currently, and I personally know families in 100’s of dollars in debt medically, they will probably never pay-off.

The point is we have a delusional medical system, that we seemingly cannot stop, and constantly have to wresting with. There are ridiculous careers/positions in the insurance, and medical billing system are set-up just to fleece, distort, and financially terrorize people that are already, on the edge both medically, emotionally, and financially. Doesn’t sound much like a free country does it?

How can the richest country, in the world, spend almost double the amount per person medically than countries with non-cost socialized medical care, yet have such a broken system that terrorizes most citizens, that do not have a Cadillac insurance plan, or government medical plan?


Yes, the USA is already spending more on healthcare per person, in the USA, than socialized countries
www.healthsystemtracker.org...-average-wealthy-countries-spend-half-much-per-person- health-u-s-spends



Let’s look deeper. When ObamaCare came out, I did some deep digging into the money trail, and corporate interests, because I knew it smelled like a load of BS. Again, understand this isn’t about picking a side, but rather pointing out both sides allow us to be divided by corporate shills, and further put into a state of chaos.

Where did the person that wrote ObamaCare run to after she was done with the Bill?

An old thread of mine in regards to shady practices.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

WASHINGTON -- The White House defended its ethics record on Wednesday after reports surfaced that one of its top health care policy officials was leaving the administration to take a job at a pharmaceutical giant.

Liz Fowler left her post as deputy director of the Office of Consumer Information and Oversight at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services for a senior position in Johnson & Johnson's government affairs and policy group. According to Politico, which first reported the departure, Fowler would be leading the company's "global health policy," which has raised a few flags.

Interesting where the money trail leads to.

www.zerohedge.com...

Following the passage of ObamaCare, several of the smartest people I know claimed that the bill was actually written by and for the drug and insurance companies rather than “the people” as Obama had claimed. My friend and orthopedic surgeon Dave Janda wrote an excellent piece that I published titled: Thoughts on Obamacare from a Surgeon and Friend .

Liz Fowler left her post as deputy director of the Office of Consumer Information and Oversight at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services for a senior position in Johnson & Johnson's government affairs and policy group. According to Politico, which first reported the departure, Fowler would be leading the company's "global health policy," which has raised a few flags.

The politicians don’t care as long as they have their lifetime Cadillac plans, they have zero comprehension of what dealing with the current medical system is like.

All I can say is the people that keep defending their parties side, and fawning over their political hero's may need a mental health check-up, but it may cost you your entire life-savings, so buckle-up.

a reply to: Realtruth
It sounds awful, but you can't be having commie style tax funded healthcare like the rest of the world, that would be bad obviously...if people can't afford to pay for their treatment they should die instead of sponge money off the people who work.
Let them die, socialist healthcare is evil because it treats people free at the point of need. I wish we had a system like the US, I hate the National Health Service in the UK, commie bastards. Why should my taxes be used to treat other people, bastards.
[/sarc]

a reply to: Realtruth


The US will have universal healthcare eventually. Its inevitable.
People will bitch about it.
Taxes will pay for it.
We will get over it.

Obamas attempt to insure everyone was a fools quest.
He should have tried to make healthcare affordable, not insurance.

I agree too many people have been screwed by O bummer care and it needs to go. My healthcare is fine and fixed. Lots of people bought into the new shiny and have lost everything.


The few that didn't have healthcare still don't and a bunch of othere are payiny 10 times or more for what they had a few years ago.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: Realtruth


The US will have universal healthcare eventually. Its inevitable.
People will bitch about it.
Taxes will pay for it.
We will get over it.

Obamas attempt to insure everyone was a fools quest.
He should have tried to make healthcare affordable, not insurance.

What's pathetic is taxes already more than pay for it, unfortunately it's extremely mismanaged and corrupt, but I agree the USA will get there, if it pulls its collective head out of its ass.

how many countries allow drug companies to publicly advertise their drugs? to my knowledge it's 2 now that new zealand passed laws allowing it. previously, only the US.

Having been a part of a stable industry with a stable career for the past 22 years it often escapes me how the average person struggles with benefits.

Over that time for me its been a cycle of figure out what package I want, make sure I'm signed up during open enrollment then automatic payroll withdrawals to pay for it every two weeks.

While I cant say my experience with health care has been the same as the OP I can certainly see how it would be a nightmare for someone in a career where benefits are not a given.

a reply to: CharlesT
Star for me learning something new
It turns out this is the rules in Britain...

You can advertise any over-the-counter medicine, including pharmacy medicines, to the general public.
You can’t advertise prescription-only medicines (POMs) to the general public but you can promote them to healthcare professionals and others who can prescribe or supply the product.
You can’t advertise any medicine that is not licensed by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) or the European Commission.

www.gov.uk...
...never actually thought about it but the only adverts I see are for cold medicine and Ibuprofen/paracetamol/whatever.

One of the worst mistakes Americans ever made was allowing health care to be a non-taxed "benefit" paid for by employers. Nobody ever griped about that, did they? And mostly it was full coverage. For example, I broke my arm and had to get all patched up. I don't now what it cost. It was just taken care of, just as well as the British or Canadian systems. Now days they tell you how much it costs, but for decades that was not the case. I, and millions of other workers, had full coverage. It got to the point where the benefit was expected, not only for the worker, but also his entire family. So single people were effectively paid less than married people with a litter of kids.

If we didn't get full coverage, we blamed the employer. Yet the cost of "full coverage" for my employer went from $50 per month to $700 per month in the time I was working. They were expected to "eat it!" because, you know, screw employers. Health care was no longer a benefit; it was a right. Yeah, that might not have worked for people who were unemployed, but people who are working don't care about these who are not working. Besides, welfare and Medicaid take care of those people, right? Not my problem, but my taxes pay for those losers anyway.

So now we have people like the OP who decide to gamble with a "catastrophe" policy. It's THEIR CHOICE! But what they have decided to do is gamble with their lives and their kids' lives and just hope nothing expensive happens. The policy has a high deductible. That means YOU PAY THE DEDUCTIBLE until you reach the limit, at which point the insurance policy kicks in. Anybody not understand that?

It's not always a bad decision. I did it myself. My reasoning was as follows: Full coverage cost $700 a month. Catastrophe coverage cost $200 per month. The deductible was $5000. But the savings was $6,000 per year ($500 x 12). So if nothing happened I was $6,000 ahead. If something did happen and I had to pay the deductible, it would be as if I paid for full coverage during that time. I would "break even" on the deal, or I might "make money" (actually, not spend it, but the results are the same.) So it CAN work, but it is a gamble.

OP gambled and lost a little bit. It's not even close to the deductible, but does he take responsibility for gambling with his family? Of course not. It's someone else's fault that he CHOSE a catastrophe plan. So do you think he will actually be willing to PAY for full coverage? This stuff isn't free. If you want the government to provide universal coverage, you WILL PAY for it with higher taxes, just like in the UK and Canada. Taxes are higher. Why? To pay for medical coverage. So the question for American citizens is: Are you willing for your taxes to go up say 10% to pay for healthcare? So far you've said "No." You always want someone else to pay for it. You always want to cheap out, like OP did for his kids.

Now don't go and say the "government" should pay. The "government" is YOU. YOU pay. I don't want to pay for you because you think it's "too expensive" therefore I get to pay your bill as well as mine. I want YOU to pay for yourself and your litter of kids, through higher taxes that YOU pay. You need to take responsibility here instead of blaming everyone else for your lack of vision and foresight. The system is what it is. It is what it is because you made it happen that way. Deal with it.

originally posted by: schuyler

Now don't go and say the "government" should pay. The "government" is YOU. YOU pay. I don't want to pay for you because you think it's "too expensive" therefore I get to pay your bill as well as mine. I want YOU to pay for yourself and your litter of kids, through higher taxes that YOU pay. You need to take responsibility here instead of blaming everyone else for your lack of vision and foresight. The system is what it is. It is what it is because you made it happen that way. Deal with it.

That's not the point. I manage my finances well, extremely well, however the government and medical system are not held accountable for their practices.

Basic medical care should already be covered with the taxes we currently pay, or at the very least we should have a fairly balanced medical rates that are regulated. It appears that when people are down and out, the medical system can charge whatever it deems necessary.

The mentality you currently subscribe to is how the corrupt shills want everyone to resonate with , being blind and arguing for their side of accountability and corrupt practices.

It would be nice if there were 2 solutions here in the states.

One solution provided and managed by the government for say 15-20% of your income. They can set all allowances and allow anyone with a pulse to join. If you don't have the income level to pay into the plan, the other people in the plan with the means can pay for your share. Utopia and paradise. You are human and the right to expect medical care at all costs is provided to you by our government.

The second solution on a health plan would be completely independent of the government plan. Separate doctors and facilities, no mixing. Separate payment methods where this plan would be all cash with no insurance involved.

Then we can see which plan works out. Which plan is affordable. Which plan offers the better treatment and is the most sustainable. Lets collect honest statistics on each.

The only thing that would cause bleed-over would be in the government needed to create money out of thin air to support their socialistic plan, thus making everyone's fiat worth less in the end.

originally posted by: Realtruth
Basic medical care should already be covered with the taxes we currently pay, or at the very least we should have a fairly balanced medical rates that are regulated. It appears that when people are down and out, the medical system can charge whatever it deems necessary.

Pfft, more commie talk. Let them suffer if their policy isn't good enough, tough luck, you shouldn't sponge off other workers.
[/sarcasm]

We need a socialized government run healthcare system and honest and conservative people watching over it. It does not pay to throw a half a million bucks into tests and procedures to treat a patient who at most has six extra months to live, with poor quality of life during that six months. Europe addresses this issue, they have some commitees overseeing the healthcare stuff, people can appeal to them to increase treatment if they desire. Doctors are supposed to tell the patients about quality of life and truthful outcome expectations before doing many expensive and invasive treatments..the patient is then given a choice to proceed or not. Here, our healthcare professionals promote expensive procedures and do not inform the patient about quality of life and do not stress beforehand how the treatment can cause many other problems. I will not put other insurance payers through the crazy expense of treating a terminal illness if I got one unless I am sure it will extend my life considerably and my quality of life will be decent. I do not desire to be a burden on others.

I see people who do not care, they go through every test since the insurance pays it....with that attitude in Mass, that is why our insurance premiums have gotten so high. When insurance premiums go up and the copay is raised, people go to the doctor more so they get their money's worth. But this leads to even more insurance paid to medical and it then requires higher rates. We have a flawed system from the top to bottom in healthcare. Even the patients are causing increased healthcare use. The schools and some jobs require the person to go to the doctor when they need time off now a lot, this leads to many more doctor visits during the year for a plain ol common cold. Not good, employers and school policies are also raising insurance costs.

i pay more for less.

its the single biggest issue I have.

Except my country is more worried about trolling each other over Trump gotchas and made up sexual assault cases. So i have to just deal with it.

originally posted by: schuyler
One of the worst mistakes Americans ever made was allowing health care to be a non-taxed "benefit" paid for by employers. Nobody ever griped about that, did they? And mostly it was full coverage.

I'm pretty sure we Americans had nothing to do with it.

Decades ago, I want to say late 50-early 60s--when the unions were coming into their own with the auto industry, the decision was made between union and management to make healthcare a fringe benefit.....rather than go with the other idea of universal care.

Now, I cannot remember which non-fiction book it was, but back then universal care would have been doable.

Our health care sucks and its not getting better, but I do not want the govt running our health care system either. 22 veterans a day committing suicide shows they cant even manage to handle 22 million people how in the F am I supposed to think they can manage 300 million more.


ETA no I do not have an answer..

a reply to: ClovenSky

The second solution on a health plan would be completely independent of the government plan

It already exists, just isn't advertised much. It is gaining traction though.
jointhewedge.com...

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: Realtruth


The US will have universal healthcare eventually. Its inevitable.
People will bitch about it.
Taxes will pay for it.
We will get over it.

Obamas attempt to insure everyone was a fools quest.
He should have tried to make healthcare affordable, not insurance.

... and people will die because of it. The bureaucrats will step in over your objections and decide what care you can and cannot get and there will be no appeal regardless of what may or may not be available in medical science or what you may or may not be willing to pay. You know, because sometimes grandma should just have that pill or it's just too cruel for your baby to have that treatment.

Or you have to wait months and months to see this or that doctor for a treatment that could save your life because your cancer is aggressive and by the time you get this or that treatment, it's just too late, so you get that pain pill when the other system, expensive as it was, would have seen you in a matter of weeks.

There is a reason why breast cancer survival rates are so much better in the US than other countries with the supposedly more humane health care systems.

originally posted by: ketsuko
There is a reason why breast cancer survival rates are so much better in the US than other countries with the supposedly more humane health care systems.

You got a link? You made the assertion and I can't be arsed googling it.
It could be interesting reading depending on whatever you link me to.
How about other cancers? Prostrate kills more men than Breast cancer kills women in the UK now.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Wow, that is great news. Really really great news.

Some of their points:


Transparent, Affordable Pricing
Freedom to Choose
True Patient Privacy
No Government Reporting
No Outside Interference
Cash-Based Pricing
Protected Patient-Doctor Relationship
All Patients Welcome


I would participate in a heartbeat. If this actually pans out and they are successful, I would go above and beyond to help support such a system. If their overhead was low and the majority of the money went to care instead of admin fees, I would even contribute a portion of my disposable income of my own free will. If they turn out to be an honest system that truly helps people, I bet they could easily tie it into a self donated help fund. To provide for those that try to manage their own health but just fall on tough times.

That in itself is free association.