Study - The #MeToo Movement is Back-Firing. American Opinion Has Shifted Against Victims.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ALSTA

Part of the problem is that when women make false accusations and then demand that all other women believe them like we've seen, they forget that those men they accuse, especially if innocent, will have women who love them in various capacities - mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, etc.

Those women aren't just making an innocent victim out of a man, but they're indirectly hurting their own in those other women who love that man because if the man in question is not a predator, he's often a loved man, loved by other women who also get caught up in the crossfire.

Look at all the women who sat behind Kavanaugh in tears, including his wife. They ended up hurt, too.

If it is a he said, she said situation then the accusations would be unproven, not necessarily false.

Then if you have no evidence, perhaps you shouldn't bring your claims.

There is a reason why you document everything in corporate America, even the most innocuous seeming things. My own husband learned it the hard way after dealing with an office full of passive aggressive women. After the first HR complaint, he documented everything, and he was never caught out by them again. Nevertheless, his workplace was still a living hell until he was moved out of that office.

I've been in workplaces for the better part of 50 years until recently and it almost always is a he said/she said situation because they make sure there are no witnesses.

a reply to: InTheLight

He got smart and made sure there was a paper trail one way or another. A couple times, there were things where he reported himself just to make sure the interactions happened with HR before they could get there.

To be plain, none of this was sexual in nature. It was all complaints over "hostile work environment" and that sort of thing, but the idea is similar and just as nebulous.

These particular women also had a reputation in the company for this sort of behavior too. They had a clique and were "mean girls" with a history of ganging up on their office mates, especially the male ones.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: InTheLight

He got smart and made sure there was a paper trail one way or another. A couple times, there were things where he reported himself just to make sure the interactions happened with HR before they could get there.

To be plain, none of this was sexual in nature. It was all complaints over "hostile work environment" and that sort of thing, but the idea is similar and just as nebulous.

These particular women also had a reputation in the company for this sort of behavior too. They had a clique and were "mean girls" with a history of ganging up on their office mates, especially the male ones.

Interestingly enough, I recently read an article where women bully (or is assertiveness being viewed as aggressiveness?) women more often in the workplace, so I am not dismissing your husband's claim of bullying because women seem to think they have to prove themselves more than men do and it may take generations for the scales to balance.

Bullying in the workplace (and everywhere else today) is a scourge and I think it can also be misread by some people as bullying when in fact it may be something else. This is where workplace mediation and negotiation would be a valuable asset where employees with grievances can air their concerns to each other. It could be a simple misunderstanding where an apology would make things right; I've been there.

originally posted by: InTheLight
Just behave the same way you would when in or out of a conversation with a man when in a professional working situation.

Doesn't matter how you act if an accusation is to be believed every single time. You could treat a woman with the utmost respect, but if she's mad at you and the type to do it, she could easily lie and get you in trouble. That's the point people are getting at.

For example, I had a woman I worked with go to management and accuse me of "elder abuse", all because I wrote her up. There was a simple portion of her job that no matter how many times I explained it to her, showed her how to do it, she just kept doing it wrong, almost as if she didn't care. I was the one who had to fix her error, and after several weeks of having to fix it, I finally wrote her up. In fact, she's the only person I've ever written up in my time as management. So, she got in my face, accused me of "elder abuse"....(she was 48 at the time,wtf), and went to management. They did side with me, but still, that's how easy it can be.

So, not quite as simple as you put it if you encounter the wrong woman and she doesn't like you. This stuff even happens with my wife. She's had multiple women lie about things she's done to get her fired.

a reply to: pointessa

The only good part about this is that it is so in your face you have to be in denial or brain dead not to see it.

Unfortunately, the political cheerleaders that have been proven to be in denial or brain dead make up a good size portion of the population , if not the majority.

a reply to: Necrobile

If you maintain a professional attitude and behaviour in the workplace then you have established and proven yourself to be such and there should not be any problem as to your credibility. However, I do not envy you being in a managerial position because you do take the brunt of it and it is just too energy draining. I am just wondering if that employee had a learning disability which she was too ashamed to admit and that you as a manager could not breach the topic of there being a disability.

originally posted by: InTheLight
I am just wondering if that employee had a learning disability which she was too ashamed to admit and that you as a manager could not breach the topic of there being a disability.

Nope, she's a real estate agent with an ego, the job I was mentioning was a side job for her so I'm pretty certain she didn't care and was too egotistical to admit she was doing it wrong. To give you an idea, when I first met her she introduced herself to me and informed me that she had the "most important job in the store". It was a retail outlet(Hastings, if you know it) and she was the person that gathered the online orders together to ship out.

Was it an important job??
Yes it was.

Was she the best at it??
No she was not.

Did she believe she was??
Oooooooohhhhhh yeah. XD

She and I are friends, I see her at least 2-3 times a week where I work now, I was just using this example to show how easy an accusation can be made even when none of the intent was there.

originally posted by: Necrobile

originally posted by: InTheLight
I am just wondering if that employee had a learning disability which she was too ashamed to admit and that you as a manager could not breach the topic of there being a disability.

Nope, she's a real estate agent with an ego, the job I was mentioning was a side job for her so I'm pretty certain she didn't care and was too egotistical to admit she was doing it wrong. To give you an idea, when I first met her she introduced herself to me and informed me that she had the "most important job in the store". It was a retail outlet(Hastings, if you know it) and she was the person that gathered the online orders together to ship out.

Was it an important job??
Yes it was.

Was she the best at it??
No she was not.

Did she believe she was??
Oooooooohhhhhh yeah. XD

She and I are friends, I see her at least 2-3 times a week where I work now, I was just using this example to show how easy an accusation can be made even when none of the intent was there.

Why didn't you sit down with her and a mediator and hash this out at the point where she could not perform the job properly?

originally posted by: loam
a reply to: carewemust

No big surprise when you see how the left has exploited it to absurdity.

Survivors need to be heard. No question. But when you suddenly decide there are never bad actor accusers.... Yeah, that goes to far.

This ^^^.

Every accuser needs to be heard and their accusations checked out. For everyone's sake.

But no one has a right to demand we believe them. Either the accusations can be proven with facts and evidence or they cannot be proven.

And when the charges cannot be proven, there can be no guilt pronounced. It doesn't matter what one believes. Innocent until proven guilty.

Better for the guilty to go free than for the innocent to be wrongly prosecuted and persecuted.

a reply to: Boadicea

Taking into account the low percentage of false accusations, it would seem rational for us to believe the accusers rather than not - evidence or not.

www.nsvrc.org...

Research shows that rates of false reporting are frequently inflated, in part because of inconsistent definitions and protocols, or a weak understanding of sexual assault. Misconceptions about false reporting rates have direct, negative consequences and can contribute to why many victims don’t report sexual assaults (Lisak et al., 2010). To improve the response to victims of sexual violence, law enforcement and service providers need a thorough understanding of sexual violence and consistency in their definitions, policies and procedures.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ALSTA

Part of the problem is that when women make false accusations and then demand that all other women believe them like we've seen, they forget that those men they accuse, especially if innocent, will have women who love them in various capacities - mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, etc.

Those women aren't just making an innocent victim out of a man, but they're indirectly hurting their own in those other women who love that man because if the man in question is not a predator, he's often a loved man, loved by other women who also get caught up in the crossfire.

Look at all the women who sat behind Kavanaugh in tears, including his wife. They ended up hurt, too.

Correct, i didn't really want to divulge anything personal but anyway-
My missus friend tried to come on to me, i said no, in the process of her pulling her pants down to entice me i noticed during my pleas to stop she was shall we say menstual, later i told my missus and all hell broke out between them.
As a result the missus friend accused me of rape...... Thankfully she was so stupid she reported to police that night and as you described the events post accusation where horrendous to say the least.
However i said to police i hadn't changed my clothes as described by her also so take em all for forensic testing as if i had raped her-
1 her dna would be on my underpants, and
2 her menstral fluid would be all over my underpants (condom or not).
As expected 2 weeks later found no trace of her at all in my underpants which would be impossible if guilty.
I was exhonerated.
I obtained a lawyer and started procedings to sue her for false claims and defermation.
Under settlement terms she admitted to her doings and handed herself into police.
The rest is history.
But how different my life would be if that nasty cow had of got her way.
Stupid bitch obviously didnt realise i spied the sanitary pad with fluid in toe during her brief enticement attempt.
This more than qualifys me to post sincerely here and now ive confessed to my particular close call i will say this to the defensive defenders of the accusers-
1 act straight away, get a rape kit done, thats what there bloody there for.
2 if your lieing? I hope you drop dead.
Fair enough to if i don't say so myself.

a reply to: ALSTA

First of all, I am glad this situation turned out in your favour, but you had evidence all along the way and the fortitude to see justice be done. Many women who suffer sexual assault and harassment are usually in a powerless position, with no witnesses, and have to face the stigma and conditioning that it was somehow her fault (victim blaming). Then they have to deal with the trauma of sexual assault and revictimization, so in addition to the facts that false accusations are rare, we also have 63% of sexual assaults not ever being reported.

a reply to: InTheLight

Then they have to deal with women who make false reports that make people extra suspicious of actual reports.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: InTheLight

Then they have to deal with women who make false reports that make people extra suspicious of actual reports.

Why be suspicious when the false report statistics are so low? Why lean that way?

originally posted by: InTheLight
Why be suspicious when the false report statistics are so low? Why lean that way?

Could it be because of their own personal experiences?? Maybe they know many people who've been falsely accused of stuff, or maybe they've been victims of false accusations themselves, I know I have. Thankfully not for sexual assault, but if you believe my ex back in the day then I gave her reason to fear for her life, and the life of her son.

The statistics might be low, but only because things aren't always reported. My cousin beat, kicked, bit, and even stabbed her husband a few weeks ago(she's crazy), then when my aunt kicked her out of the house, she called the cops to have her husband arrested, claiming he did all of that to her. If it wasn't for my aunt as a witness, he'd be in jail right now. When he went to the police station and told them he was a victim, they all laughed at him. Why?? Because he's a big guy and they didn't believe he could be a victim.

So many of us want evidence for accusations because we've been and/or seen the results of the opposite.

a reply to: InTheLight

Taking into account the low percentage of false accusations, it would seem rational for us to believe the accusers rather than not - evidence or not. 

Not to play semantics, but "rational" refers to reason and logic based upon facts, which is the opposite of "beliefs."

And even accounting for statistics, those statistics reflect a judicial system which requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt, with both civil and criminal penalties for false charges -- and rightfully so. It's not realistic to apply those same statistics to a judicial system that does not penalize false charges.

And if we should ever start convicting folks purely on beliefs with no proof required, then we would have absolutely no idea how many false charges were made because we wouldn't even try to prove or disprove the charges. We would just "believe" or not.

Finally, even if 999,999 out 1,000,000 were true charges, there is no virtue in convicting that one innocent person just because someone said so.

And vice versa, there is no virtue in "believing" lying liars... And if we forsake evidence for beliefs, then lying liars will no doubt make false charges.

No one wins when innocent people are persecuted for false charges.

a reply to: Necrobile

The same can be said for the accusers' experiences and, again, as per national (National Sexual Violence Resource Centre) statistics (many many more people's experiences than our own) this is where rationale comes in to play.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: InTheLight

Then they have to deal with women who make false reports that make people extra suspicious of actual reports.

Why be suspicious when the false report statistics are so low? Why lean that way?

I don't think the false report stats are low. What is low are the ones we actually know about, not the ones where the accused is found guilty or had their life ruined.

I've known several people falsely accused. I'm not talking big media cases, but just within a circle of friends and in college. All the cases were the typical, chick gets drunk / high and let's her inner freak come out.... when she sobers up, she then has regrets and decides to cry sexual assault instead of accepting the fact she was being a whore for a night.

The problem with just believing women is that it assumes that women are always honest and truthful. Women can be extremely conniving and manipulative. It isn't just falsely accusing someone of sexual assault. I've seen women trap men with pregnancy. Even to the point of lying about a guy being a baby's father. Calling police on guys and lying about being abused. Lying on guys claiming they abused their children. Case after case....

The big issue with sexual assault accusation is just even a false accusation can ruin someone's life even if it doesn't stick. It is like if someone accused you of being a child molester. That accusation will stick with you FOREVER even if there wasn't a shred of truth to it.

a reply to: Edumakated

You say women can be extremely conniving and manipulative, well so can men. When men get drunk at parties, does their inner freak not come out too? I'm not sure where you were trying to go with these statements.

Again, the national statistics have included all false accusations being proved false within their findings, and the percentage is extremely low.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: generik

and by the same token i don't think there is a single one among us that does not know someone who has been the victim of wrongful accusations

WTF dude
None of the men I know have ever been accused o f sexual harrassment. What are you saying?

while i know of no female that has been sexually assaulted or harassed i know of many men who have been falsely accused of it. in fact at all 3 most recent work places i have worked at there were multiple cases of false accusations that got innocent men fired from their jobs. in one case ONE person personally got more than FIVE men fired based on her false accusations (and her word alone counted more than any witnesses to the situations who were completely ignored). i have seen a group of my friends broken up by false accusations by one lady that was trying to make her boyfriend jealous. on the other hand i do know of males that were being sexually harassed, and yet according to the company nothing could be done about it because the accused was a female and they could not do anything to her because it would look like revenge because she had been accusing any male who refused her sexual advances of sexual harassment.