Are UFOlogists Useful Idiots?

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

If this "phenomenon" of theirs is truly as sentient as all that.. then it would only reveal itself to it's friends.. and that would NOT be anyone I have ever met.. except perhaps a shaman.

As you have probably surmised, that was my approach. Even though a gringo, but living among the Pueblos and Rez I had the opportunity to learn and partake of the sacraments. Also subsequently indulge in urban shamanism with it's own particular aesthetic. I don't think the English language is capable of truly expressing a phenomenon that transcends nouns and verbs.

I don't have any answers and feel I was just allowed to be a casual observer and even that could have been the "trickster" Fukin with me.

Other observers, experiencers, and investigators may have some answers thru their particular disciplines and approaches Anything is possible when you step thru the doors of Chapel Perilous.

a reply to: olaru12

One of the many things to keep in mind, as it appears you know,
is that to treat the "phenomenon" (going to stop using that word
eventually) as a "person" is a mistake.. but not to treat it as a
"person" is a mistake.

Likewise, most 'mystical types' eventually learn, that it's a mistake
to think of yourself as a 'person', but if you don't think of yourself
as a person you become mentally ill.

The 'Universe' like a human brain, sucks up experiences, and out
of that emergent phenomenon like 'selves' pop up..

which are all temporary and ever changing... so trying to 'find your
self' is pointless.

Yet, people (and the Universe) never give up the quest.. and even
the 'phenomenon' falls prey to the foolishness.

It's all very interesting..

But showing a little respect.. as Native American's always did
is certainly a good start.

Showing 'yourself' a little respect and others doesn't hurt either..
even if that respect is not deserved.. if you throw enough pepper
into the mix, then people might start to emulate pepper (better
behavior).

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: joelr

In my OP, as "KT" would like to say, I took (like I often do) short-cuts.
I have to. To give something a full accounting could take a thousand
pages.

Yes, I'm familiar with your references.. my original mentor was a
published mythologist.

Your final point about the gospel writers is accurate.. and it's interesting
that's what you finished your reply with. Though I suppose most people
would have said uneducated fishermen, not farmers.

Yeah fishermen fits better.

Hi Kev

As always a very interesting topic,

From my point of view people always need to believe in something “out of this world”: God’s, UFO’s, Secret societies, etc. It takes away the loneliness and the responsibility to truly leave (which many times can be very scary & difficult)
Does this make us useful idiots and easy to exploit ? I guess so.

D.

I just want to post here... as it's quite on-topic.

I've felt that it's quite unfortunate, all the 'glomming onto' the "phenomenon"
that I've seen in the hands of people using it as a marketing gimmick.

It's rather like the acronym UAP.

At first, both were cool.. but now both have been hopelessly corrupted as
catch phrases by people running deception programs. I suppose they
always were.. I just didn't want to think about it... as I love neutral
terms and acronyms, as what we had to work with before was pretty
bad ... UFO and functionally djinn/demon.. none of which are remotely
usable anymore.. they never were... but education takes a lot of time..
for all of us.. myself included.

Until such time as I think up better terms (for my use.. everyone has to
make their own decisions).. I'll probably focus upon the deception
aspects of "UFOlogy" and "spirituality".. which is the bulk of those
fields anyway..

I suppose I'm getting a bit more shrill... and if so, I apologize.. when
I saw the inroads some of the deceptive nonsense had made into me,
now that I"m not using the deceptive terms... it rather annoyed me..
i'm so careful with that sort of thing.. to keep out hostile memes..
(95% of all memes are hostile).

So my more rational side is rearing up with a vengeance.. it's not that
I didn't emphasize the rational side a lot.. I always have.. and I truly
value the intuitive AND the non-ordinary sides of awareness..

but we have to clean house in my opinion, and throw the rascals out,
before we can entertain more novel concepts... IMHO.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

It would depend on who's using who, and for what.

Cargo cults, and religious dogma are to diminutive or sick to be useful other then money, sex fetishes, and insecurity.

A known alien presence, or anything remotely close could be viable target for propaganda or global unification, and yet I beleive the military complex is just as dumbfounded as any one else on this rock with. Although I wouldn't put past them if they had something futuristic .

Also they could be making things harder for themselves with misinformation if they wanted more intelligence on what ever the intelligence is.

Supersitions on the other hand could go back and forth here, for after all, truth can be much stranger then fiction where myth shouldn't be real.

a reply to: Specimen

I beleive the military complex is just as dumbfounded as any one else on this rock with

That's my take on it too.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Government and military ignorance has always been my suspicion.

What do you make of Bob Bigelow's matter-of-fact confirmation of an ET presence a year ago as a result of BAASS, and - assuming the Howard Hughes of UFOs isn't lying - do you think his evidence ('Exotic material'? Comprehensive photos/film? Who the hell knows?) had a profound influence on the government, the military, and TTSA?

Would TTSA even exist without Bigelow in the world?

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Specimen

I beleive the military complex is just as dumbfounded as any one else on this rock with

That's my take on it too.

I think the military along with conehead types at los Alamos, and the priestly ones in the Vatican are more than casually interested in the phenom. Not to mention SRI and Brookings. Even our little "think tank" of drunks and academic quacks have had some interesting although dumbfoundable encounters. poopoo the weegee board all you want...still... and Castaneda devotees

I'll bet the MIC has a group of E5s sitting around a Ouija table as we speak. It's not shaped like a pentagon for nothing; just like the Russians and Israelies, especially the Isrealies.

The English language isn't syntactical enough to even ask the proper questions....Towa might however. Dine' maybe....Ya' at' eeh

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I don't know Mr. Bigelow.
I have never spoken with anyone who knows him,
who would say a single word. He seems right up
there with the Collins Elite. Nobody will say
one word.. and that's fine.. I have no problem
at all with Mr. Bigelow.. he made his money honestly
and he spends it on his hobby sometimes.

But my take?

He spent half his fortune apparently, and got
nothing for it.

That's my take on it.

Oh there are little driblets of 'the phenomenon'
that nobody is doubting..

But there was nothing discovered that had any actual
value for anything.. and I mean anything..

That's my take on it.

Now some folks want to trade on his name.. and trade
on various people's names and try to trade on the
government's name (AATIP anyone? it was a whole
lot of nothing).

To fund their hobbies without working for it.

That's my take.

Sorry.. nothing 'sexy'.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Didn't know you where posting again, so shiming in.

Interesting topic. It made me go thinking from social dynamics to something more territorial (for lack of a better fitting word).

Something you may find (slightly) related (or not at all) is the research of Geoffrey West on the universal law of scale.

Medium blog post: “Scaling: The surprising mathematics of life and civilization” @sfiscience medium.com...

It also feature an elephant

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Blue Shift

Who said that reality was pleasant?

Find me someone who says that reality is pleasant, and I'll show you
someone who knows nothing about reality.

Kev

"Reality" is the perception of a particular moment in time a person has based on influences of the external environment and how it makes them feel internally.

While standing there looking upon the remains of a Bedouin family just recently slain by insurgents I felt an amazing sense of rage and was blown away by the sheer ugliness of the world we live in.

While standing there looking upon the vastness of a glacier I had just hiked 8 hours up to I felt an amazing sense of accomplishment and was blown away by the sheer beauty of the world we live in.

Don't lecture people on your misguided perceptions of the world mate. There are plenty of us here who have seen and experienced more than you could possibly imagine.

Go listen to Laura Eisenhower and you have your answer.

a reply to: Outlier13

That's a very good challenge there...
Perception is a wonderful thing.....we all have different ones lol

Even down to something as simple as time...for every person who says "hasn't today gone quick?" someone else's perception of that period of time will be the total opposite.

But its usually Mondays that drag, work lol..what can I say I am a garfield..

originally posted by: AthlonSavage
Go listen to Laura Eisenhower and you have your answer.

You're serious right?

a reply to: MrRussell


Absolutely. Go listen to her and come back and summarise for us her Ufo garble. I bet you wont be able to. That is disinfo working at its finest level.

Then also Kerry Cassidy is probably the queen of spam for Ufology.

I was going to say...

I should have said "you're kidding right?"

Laura Eisenhower talks absolute bollocks. At about a hundred miles an hour - typical of someone trying to hoodwink listeners. No wonder her family "disowned" her.

As for Cassidy; probably the most gullible woman ever in this "scene." She seems to be still looking for her "finest hour" story to be thought of/break through as a serious journalist. Thought she was going to get to Hollywood with the non-film maker David "oh wow" Wilcock, who, himself, should have stuck to being a compiler of fringe science. He was quite good at that back in the day.

a reply to: MrRussell

Have to agree with everything you said.
Still I can appreciate they cant get a real job so need to fill there days in somehow and people I presume are donating them money so while that happening they are unlikely to stop.

Exactly like a priest who gives you his blessing so you can go on your way happy, only when you've added to the collection pot of course.