Was There a Civilization On Earth Before Humans? article speculates, no evidence

a reply to: andy06shake

My reply was more directed towards the machined megalithic blocks we assume were manufactured by previous cultures. Ya know, the ones that have cut marks through granite deeper per revolution then we can do today with diamond tip blades. Or the stone blocks that weigh 900+ tons, that we would have trouble moving with both heavy lift cranes, and trucks with 27 wheels and hydraulic suspensions.

Its comical to hear some of these explanations. Mostly made by desk jockeys that never did any manual labor in their life. Imagine a world that doesn't fit perfectly in your ivory league college text books.

The world would be absolutely boring if we had all the answers. I think part of the joy and fascination is discovering the unknown and unlocking the mysteries.

Crustal plate displacement. That is something I can get behind. It could of been triggered when we got slammed by that comet in the Taurid meteor stream that triggered the Younger Dryas event.

a reply to: Triton1128

Some form of acoustic levitation may have been responsible for moving and placing some of the larger blocks/slabs of stone at Baalbek and the like.

Or maybe humanoids were just larger/stronger back then hence the legends of Nephilim/Giants, and able to accomplish remarkable feats of strength and engineering?

Be nice to have so skeletal remains or the like, but apparently, the Smithsonian Institution lost them.

Answers simply lead to more questions, pity a world where we know everything, what would be left to be under the Sun.

The current phase of human civilisation is relatively young, the planet is extremely old...speculate, pontificate and extrapolate all you want...but we may never, ever really know. At 58 years of age, I have been reading about lost civilisations for 44 years and am no closer to knowing the truth. The world has become a smaller place in those five decades and I still find myself fascinated by new discoveries. Long may it continue.

a reply to: one4all

You need to stop with with all that 3657 year stuff. We're in 2018 CE. So this supposedly Earth shattering thing should have ocurred no earlier than 1639 BCE. Right?
Problem is there are civilizations older than that - India for one. (You know the one you cite as part of your proof.) None of them we're wiped out by this doomsday event.
Therefore, the continued unbroken history of these lands invalidates your hypothesis. No matter how loud you scream about doom waves, the fact that these civlizations exist drowns out anything you are saying. You say the Earth is constantly being wiped clean / destroyed. China, India, Egypt and Babylon all beg to differ.

originally posted by: Triton1128
a reply to: andy06shake

My reply was more directed towards the machined megalithic blocks we assume were manufactured by previous cultures. Ya know, the ones that have cut marks through granite deeper per revolution then we can do today with diamond tip blades.

No such blocks have ever been found.

originally posted by: Triton1128
Or the stone blocks that weigh 900+ tons, that we would have trouble moving with both heavy lift cranes, and trucks with 27 wheels and hydraulic suspensions.

No such blocks were ever moved and lifted in antiquity.

originally posted by: Triton1128
Its comical to hear some of these explanations. Mostly made by desk jockeys that never did any manual labor in their life. Imagine a world that doesn't fit perfectly in your ivory league college text books.

No, the claims you and others fabricate are comical - to a point.
Eventually, however, they are only sad and depressing.

Harte

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Triton1128

Some form of acoustic levitation may have been responsible for moving and placing some of the larger blocks/slabs of stone at Baalbek and the like.

No, cranes were used to lift them and capstans (winches) were used to move them.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

You're are just an old grumpy and particularly arrogant man who's stuck repeating the garbage they taught 50 years ago. I've accepted that. Its why I avoid replying to your comments. Your too predicable. I just hope the truth comes to fruition before your time comes and goes so I can say. Ha, I told you so.

Keep those eyes closed. Its working out great for you.

" I'm choosing to not supply you links to my claims. Ill do what you do and tell you to go and find it yourself. Since you and I have already had this conversation years ago. Apparently, my memory is still holding strong."

originally posted by: Triton1128
a reply to: Harte

You're are just an old grumpy and particularly arrogant man who's stuck repeating the garbage they taught 50 years ago. I've accepted that. Its why I avoid replying to your comments. Your too predicable. I just hope the truth comes to fruition before your time comes and goes so I can say. Ha, I told you so.

Keep those eyes closed. Its working out great for you.

" I'm choosing to not supply you links to my claims. Ill do what you do and tell you to go and find it yourself. Since you and I have already had this conversation years ago. Apparently, my memory is still holding strong."

There's a rather long thread here at ATS about Baalbek and the evidence that shows it is Roman construction.
Because I don't care to spend an hour on this every time it comes up, I will assume anyone interested in making an intelligent (and therefore reasonable) post about the subject has read that thread.
That explains my responses above to my satisfaction, if not yours.

I don't think that's unreasonable. Anyone who thinks differently about Baalbek can only reference woo sources that make many other wildly ridiculous claims anyway.

Beside that, Baalbek is actually off-topic for this thread.

Lastly, I'm not grumpy.

Harte

yes there were several pre-Adamic civilizations before this present age

see: www.koshertorah.com...

but, the 'menkind' in those eras had no spiritual component like the 'Soul' that we now possess in our mortal bodies

these Earth inhabitants were known as Golem... not dissimilar to the Majik created entities we know of as 'Elementals'

the wicked slice of high-tech humanity is undertaking the reestablishment of slave-toiler Golem in this era of Trans-Humanism science to balance with the extraordinary 'AI' leadership about to emerge as the 'Beast System' upon the World

(at this end-times juncture)

search engine pre-adamic civilizations lots of paths to study up on....


a recent SQ hot news article hhad article that proposed our current world is the last of 6 manifistations of humans, this time Adamic man... until the end of the experiment ends & mankind becomes universal

the 6 stages of humans all had an allotted time... billions of years for the earliest ages to this 6th & last Age of Adamic men of a mere ~12k years.... and the age of the universe is closer to 15.5 billion years rather than the cosmological Big Bang theory some 14 billion years ago...
(according to the Jewish Mystics on the PDF page I linked at the onset)....


another source says:

... According to Ross, because the world was a place of death, violence and decay for hundreds of thousands/millions of years before the Curse recorded in Genesis 3:14–19. He makes the extraordinary statement: “The step-by-step approach to bipedal primate creation that we can see in the recent fossil record may reasonably reflect God’s understanding of the difficulty other life-forms would encounter in adapting to sinful humans.”...

see: creation.com...

a reply to: Harte

Cranes and winches were used to lift blocks one of which "The Stone of the Pregnant Woman” weighs in excess of 1,240 tons?

Whilst ile entertain the notion one has to wonder where and what did they build these cranes and winches from considering the material science they had available at there disposal?

originally posted by: Archivalist
a reply to: Xtrozero

Humans are allegedly the first to go to the moon.

I can't speak to the statement's validity, I've never dug through meters of regolith, nor have I been there.

The moon would be a great example of past advance life since nothing changes on it for an extremely long time.

Our moon is quite an anomaly, compared to other moons.

It has behavior I would expect from a large artificial construction. Tidal locked orbit, energy absorption index unlike other natural moons in our system, high charge differential on the surface, creating a "static cling" effect for regolith, helium-3 production via seemingly natural occurrence, etc...

It's quite an incredible gem. I've always wanted to measure charge differential between the light and dark sides of the moon, as well as the face and back of the moon.

If there is something more than rock and dust inside of the moon, measuring those charge differentials will let us know.

The general belief of how our moon was created of it being ripped from the earth ball during a collision from another mars size ball might be a good reason why it is different in some ways.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Harte

Cranes and winches were used to lift blocks one of which "The Stone of the Pregnant Woman” weighs in excess of 1,240 tons?

Whilst ile entertain the notion one has to wonder where and what did they build these cranes and winches from considering the material science they had available at there disposal?

The stone of the Pregnant Woman wasn't moved.
And it's estimated weight is not 1,240 tons anyway, more like 800.
The large stones in the retaining wall at Baalbek (Trilithon) didn't have to be lifted. Their quarry is at a higher elevation.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Just push a 900 ton block out of the quarry right? roll it up on some logs? Because any sort of wood won't just crush and splinter under those weights? Right?

..and what articles are you reading? How come the discrepancy all the time with your information?

The limestone quarry houses two massive building blocks that never made it to the temple – one weighing about 1,240 tons, and the other, known as the “Hajjar al-Hibla,” or The Stone of the Pregnant Woman, weighs about 1000 tons.

I bet the Romans were not even aware that those two large stones were even there. If they did, they would of used them. They were already quarried and shaped. The Romans would of just cut them into smaller more manageable pieces and used them where they wanted.

The fact they were found buried, means they were hidden. It also means they are much older. Pre-dating the arrival of the Romans who stumbled upon this location and built upon it.

Its the same thing we see ALL over the globe. Huge foundation stones, cut with amazing precision and placed with perfection. With more recent fabrication built a top. We are looking at the remnants of an older civilization that more recent groups have built upon and claimed ownership of. The Egyptians are a perfect example of this.

Why else the degrading quality of craftsmanship. Why else do you find hieroglyphs craved over broken sarcophagus and walls. They are trying to take ownership over a feat that was not theirs.

Most of the older generation always fell back on the "no proof" excuse. Siting the lack of anything older than 6500 years, was proof enough that it wasn't possible for that level of craftsmanship to have ever taken place prior.

Now we have Gobekli Tepe.

The construction of Göbekli Tepe (around 9000 BCE) implies organization of an advanced order not hitherto associated with Paleolithic, PPNA, or PPNB societies. Archaeologists estimate that up to 500 persons were required to extract the heavy pillars from local quarries and move them 100–500 meters (330–1,640 ft) to the site.[29] The pillars weigh 10–20 metric tons (10–20 long tons; 11–22 short tons), with one still in the quarry weighing 50 tons.[30]

Try sharing that bit of information 40 years ago ^^ You'd be alienated out of your career by those that are not willing to open their minds to alternative ideas.

Seem familiar? I cannot wait to have this discussion again in 10 years. Ill be here.

originally posted by: Triton1128
a reply to: Harte

Just push a 900 ton block out of the quarry right? roll it up on some logs? Because any sort of wood won't just crush and splinter under those weights? Right?

Wrong.
Pull it downhill with six large capstans winding thick ropes and operated by 6 to 10 humans each. Can't remember the crew size exactly that would get the job done, but the Romans had these huge winches and I do remember it would take six, three on each side.

originally posted by: Triton1128
a reply to: Harte
..and what articles are you reading? How come the discrepancy all the time with your information?

The limestone quarry houses two massive building blocks that never made it to the temple – one weighing about 1,240 tons, and the other, known as the “Hajjar al-Hibla,” or The Stone of the Pregnant Woman, weighs about 1000 tons.

I bet the Romans were not even aware that those two large stones were even there. If they did, they would of used them. They were already quarried and shaped. The Romans would of just cut them into smaller more manageable pieces and used them where they wanted.

You quote indicates that the Stone of the Pregnant Woman does not weigh an estimated 1240 pounds exactly as I said. I had forgotten there were was one slightly larger stone excavated recently that was still in position in the quarry and was never moved. Perhaps they figured it wasn't worth hooking up two more capstans.
I'd say the Romans were very aware the stones were there since they were the ones that quarried them.

originally posted by: Triton1128
a reply to: Harte
The fact they were found buried, means they were hidden. It also means they are much older. Pre-dating the arrival of the Romans who stumbled upon this location and built upon it.

It means no such thing. It means that after the quarry was abandoned it began to (naturally) fill in.

originally posted by: Triton1128
a reply to: Harte
Its the same thing we see ALL over the globe. Huge foundation stones, cut with amazing precision and placed with perfection. With more recent fabrication built a top. We are looking at the remnants of an older civilization that more recent groups have built upon and claimed ownership of. The Egyptians are a perfect example of this.

Part of Baalbek was reinforced during wW2 by the Turks for fortification. That's what we see. And huge foundation stones? No. The foundation of the platform at Balbeck is actually typical honeycomb-type Roman foundation stonework. The large stones are a retaining wall on the downhill side to keep the platform in place, not to hold it up.

originally posted by: Triton1128
a reply to: Harte
Why else the degrading quality of craftsmanship. Why else do you find hieroglyphs craved over broken sarcophagus and walls. They are trying to take ownership over a feat that was not theirs.

Most of the older generation always fell back on the "no proof" excuse. Siting the lack of anything older than 6500 years, was proof enough that it wasn't possible for that level of craftsmanship to have ever taken place prior.

I see you've run out of stuff and had to start making it up.

originally posted by: Triton1128
a reply to: Harte
Now we have Gobekli Tepe.

The construction of Göbekli Tepe (around 9000 BCE) implies organization of an advanced order not hitherto associated with Paleolithic, PPNA, or PPNB societies. Archaeologists estimate that up to 500 persons were required to extract the heavy pillars from local quarries and move them 100–500 meters (330–1,640 ft) to the site.[29] The pillars weigh 10–20 metric tons (10–20 long tons; 11–22 short tons), with one still in the quarry weighing 50 tons.[30]

Try sharing that bit of information 40 years ago ^^ You'd be alienated out of your career by those that are not willing to open their minds to alternative ideas.

Seem familiar? I cannot wait to have this discussion again in 10 years. Ill be here.

So, you object to the advancement of knowledge?
Your own excerpt clearly states the estimated amount of manpower necessary to quarry and move the larger pillars, does it not?
Would you assert there were not 500 people willing to do the job back then?

Harte

The craftsmanship seen at Göbekli Tepe is thousands of years ahead of its time, and dates back to long before such construction should have been possible. The manpower, engineering, and project managing required for such an endeavor all seem unfeasible, given where human civilization was understood to be at the time. The very existence of Göbekli Tepe has forced archaeologists to re-think the dawn of civilization.

The very existence of Göbekli Tepe has forced archaeologists to re-think the dawn of civilization.

If Göbekli Tepe was possible, why is it so hard to entertain the idea that in other parts of the world. We could have had the same thing?

Why isn't it possible that parts of Baalbaek could be older? Why isn't it possible that some of the ruins in Egypt could be older than we're told. Why isn't is possible that Puma Punku was found, and not created by the Mayans.

Would we know?

We are much older and wiser then we give ourselves credit for.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
-Aristotle

originally posted by: Triton1128

The craftsmanship seen at Göbekli Tepe is thousands of years ahead of its time, and dates back to long before such construction should have been possible. The manpower, engineering, and project managing required for such an endeavor all seem unfeasible, given where human civilization was understood to be at the time. The very existence of Göbekli Tepe has forced archaeologists to re-think the dawn of civilization.

The very existence of Göbekli Tepe has forced archaeologists to re-think the dawn of civilization.

If Göbekli Tepe was possible, why is it so hard to entertain the idea that in other parts of the world. We could have had the same thing?

They did. Gobekli Tepe is surrounded by dozens of similar sites within a few hundred miles (or so) that are only slightly younger.


Parts of Baalbek ARE older. The Roman site you see covers an older retaining wall and attached foundation that was erected a little before the Romans went to work there. The architecture that was there matches wll with the Heroditan architecture found at other sites. I.e. Herod.

There is a well-referenced thread on this right here at ATS as I said. If you want to continue with this line of thinking, I suggest you read it and post there.

Harte

originally posted by: trollz
No evidence? Sure there is, lots of it. Ancient Hindu stories tell of what seem to be atomic bombs being used against an ancient race of people here on Earth, as well as the resulting radiation poisoning of the survivors. There is also widespread evidence throughout the middle east of atomic weapons having glassed large swaths of the desert. By glassed, I mean the sand being literally blasted into glass, which happens when you detonate an atomic bomb over the desert.
Regardless of whether or not individual religions are legitimate, they often contain slivers of truth, and a common theme is the existence of ancient civilizations that had been wiped out before modern humans came to be.

“…a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as the thousand suns rose in all its splendor… a perpendicular explosion with its billowing smoke clouds… …the cloud of smoke rising after its first explosion formed into expanding round circles like the opening of giant parasols… ..it was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death, which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas. …The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. The hair and nails fell out. Pottery broke without apparent cause and the birds turned white. After a few hours all foodstuffs were infected… …to escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves in streams to wash themselves and their equipment.”

The book, Dead Men’s Secrets, by Jonathan Gray, delves into some of this. An interesting read, I thought.