A question for the Evangelicites of ATS...and whoever else wants to chime in.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

You have to have it all.

Look at what you yourself posted about abiding in Him while He abides in us. Is that not Christ in your heart - a part of you?

a reply to: ketsuko

I suppose you could look at it that way. I just think its negligent to tell someone to invite Christ somewhere and your saved, without actually explaining how salvation works.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

Inviting Christ into my heart means nothing to me. I don't see anything in the Bible that tells me to invite anything into my heart (kardia).

Perhaps he is not the Christ you seek.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
I do see scriptures instructing me to believe in Christ. To recognize that He is the Lamb of God, that He died as the Lamb to remove the penalty of sin. I see scriptures telling us to abide in Him, and He will abide in us, but it says nothing about the heart in relation to Christ.

Jeremiah 17:9-10 | NIV
The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it? “I the Lord search the heart
and examine the mind,
to reward each person according to their conduct,
according to what their deeds deserve.”

Proverbs 27:19 | NIV
As water reflects the face,
so one’s life reflects the heart.

Jeremiah 29:13 | NIV
You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

Psalm 119:10
I seek you with all my heart;
do not let me stray from your commands.

Matthew 5:8 | NIV
Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.

Psalm 51:10 | NIV
Create in me a pure heart, O God,
and renew a steadfast spirit within me.

Proverbs 3:1-2 | NIV
My son do not forget my teaching,
but keep my commands in your heart,
for they will prolong your life many years
and bring you peace and prosperity.

Proverbs 4:20-21 | NIV
My son, pay attention to what I say;
turn your ear to my words.
Do not let them out of your sight,
keep them within your heart.

Matthew 6:21 | NIV
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Psalm 119:11 | NIV
I have hidden your word in my heart
that I might not sin against you.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
We are to love God with all of our heart, soul, and strength, but that's not the same as the extra-biblical concept of "inviting Christ into the heart".

You can't love a stranger. You need to know him/her well enough. It's when you appreciate his/her beauty that you will allow you heart to embrace him/her.

But to appreciate something, you have to sacrifice something else. To take is to give. To love something, is to hate something else. To invite something, you have to cast away something else.

If you take anything for granted, your will loose more.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I'm not a believer but Imo it's just a suggestion of being a conduit of positive energy. Get to a point where subconscious morality is natural. This is place you strive to be, but your human nature (atleast in our constraints) will inevitably try to undermine you, which is why bettering oneself in generally seen as a lifetime process.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Psalm 119:11 | NIV
I have hidden your word in my heart
that I might not sin against you.

I suppose you could look at it as a two fold process. Initiation and practice (actually, resurrection would be the final step). We could say that the practice involves storing knowledge of Christ in the heart. However, the Gospels are very specific about the initiation process. Its about faith in the substitutionary death of Christ on our behalf. To simply tell someone to invite Christ in, is not a sufficient explanation in my opinion. Again, the Gospels are very detailed in explaining salvation.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I wasn't saying you should.

The central premise salvation builds upon is His work upon the cross, but the followup is the relationship with Him that you build.

You need it all, not one or the other.

a reply to: TheLead

That's exactly my point. Take away the biblical context, and the invitation is purely subjective.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: EasternShadow

Psalm 119:11 | NIV
I have hidden your word in my heart
that I might not sin against you.

I suppose you could look at it as a two fold process. Initiation and practice (actually, resurrection would be the final step). We could say that the practice involves storing knowledge of Christ in the heart. However, the Gospels are very specific about the initiation process. Its about faith in the substitutionary death of Christ on our behalf. To simply tell someone to invite Christ in, is not a sufficient explanation in my opinion. Again, the Gospels are very detailed in explaining salvation.

Psalm 119:11 is my favorite biblical quote. It mirror what I believe.

As I posted earlier, it doesn't matter how many interpretation, opinion, theological hypothesises and assumpion you can get. What matter is the heart.

A non-beliver may not communicate with god through scripture, but that doesn't mean their heart are any less human than you or I. They may not come to the same acceptance as you or I do, but they are still the children of god. And all of them are capable to love god in their own way.

I understand, my views differ greatly with Christian's salvation. That is why Psalm 119:11 is my favorite.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

That's a good question, I think I know where you are coming from and if so I agree
There are many "Christians" who invite Christ but don't live Christ
Inviting Christ is the first step, then it all has to turn into growing into being Christlike
The invitation is not enough, allowing the Holy Spirit to Indwelling and change you is also needed
Cool

Gen 15:6
Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

Acts 16:31
They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36
“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 16:8-9
8“And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin, and righteousness, and judgment; 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you no longer behold Me;

As specified by the Bible, salvation is always a mechanism of belief, not an invitation. The churches and evangelists who emphasize invitation instead of belief are needlessly complicating the gospel. That does not help anyone.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Respectfully, that's not where I was going. Invitation does nothing to save anyone. Salvation is by faith, belief, the process of acknowledgment and acceptance. You can stretch the meaning of invitation to taking scripture into the heart, but its a stretch that is never employed by the Bible itself.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Yeah, to accept the invitation means a person has to have a heart change and decide to want to live the Spirit
A reaction to the action is the , a reaction to the invitation?

a reply to: Raggedyman

Wouldn't it just be simpler to say, "Turn away from your sins by believing that Christ died for our sins, and you are saved".

Short and simple. Very little room for interpretation, and it can easily be backed up by scripture.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

The most common way I hear it described is that a person is closed off to Christ, but He is there at the door knocking, waiting for you to invite Him in.

The idea of the invitation is that once you open your heart and mind, you are open to belief in His work on the cross, open to shedding your old ways and attempting to re-align your life to his teachings (the heart change).

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I've heard that too, often at the same time or in the same church at other times.

Sometimes, I think you overthink these things.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Ive always understood “ivinting Jesus into your heart”, to mean, inviting the Holy Spirit into our lives and beginning to follow Gods ways, instead of our own ways…

Proverb 21:2
2 All a man’s ways seem right to him,
but the LORD weighs the heart.

We draw close to God by inviting the Holy Spirit into our lives, and this brings about a change in our hearts and we begin to live for God…

Mark 12:28-31
28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

Receiving the Holy Spirit, brings with it understanding, whereby we learn the things of God.

Psalms 111:10
Receiving the Spirit of the LORD is the beginning of Wisdom: a good Understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

God wont force his way in though…we gota invite him in….



- JC

a reply to: ketsuko

Revelation 3:19-20 was part of a letter that was addressed to believers in Laodicea. They where back sliding, but still believers, so the knocking indicated Christ's desire to restore fellowship with the believer, it is not a passage about salvation.

19 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; be zealous therefore, and repent. 20 ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with Me.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Appropriate teachings given the age we are in, no?

a reply to: ketsuko

Well, I do over think things, but in this case, its not easy to overthink something that has such an abstract definition.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Cab will be at your house in... 5...4...3