ive been thinking about legalization and universal basic income

at work yesterday i started to think about universal basic income. now i know basically nothing about it other than the premise of a money for citizens.

so i started to think that if MJ was legalized federally and taxed there would be money to support this universal income for all adult citizens.

again i know nothing about it so in my thoughts i was thinking like 10 grand a year to every adults. or to every household. the exact particulars are not important at this time.
so lets go with 10 grand per household per year.

that would help so many people. that would pay my rent and a couple bills for the entire year.

i think this would go a long way to relieving stress from a lot of people. it would also give people more disposable income that they could put into the economy and pay taxes at local levels.

people would buy vehicles that otherwise wouldnt be able to. things like that.

i was thinking the trade off could be since all households are getting 10 grand a hear then no more food stamps. no more welfare checks. no more WIC program.

this all sounds great and i think it could be great but we have the human factor.

the human factor is a great deal of people are just going to piss that money away and be in the same shape they were. needing public assistance.

so on that end what to do?
the idea is cut those programs cause people will not need it. reality is people will still need it

can/should the government tell people to # off. you got your 10 grand. not my problem till next year when you get your next 10?

they probably should. but can they really?
there is a level of responsibility to take care of its citizens.

then we get in a situation where people get the 10 large and are still on the programs.... that is not the way to go.

so in a perfect world i think legalization to fund universal basic income among other things is a great idea. i think it would relieve huge amounts of stress on people. it would go a long way to putting a dent in people being homeless. it would put money into the economy cause people would have more to spend.

in our world i think people are gonna # that up.
not all of course but a lot are just gonna piss it away and then still need public assistance.

i want universal basic income to work but i dont think it would.

what do you think?

a reply to: TinySickTears

I think you covered it pretty well. I agree with you comments completely.

Unfortunately there will always be irresponsible people who will take from the responsible ones. One way or another.

I have an idea. If you work full time all year, forty hours for fifty weeks, the government cuts you a check for ten grand. How does that sound?

I think it's a great idea man. I was hoping that with globalization that something like that would occur, but I'm kinda naive like that. Turns out that globalization is just to make the very rich even richer and # everyone over.

a reply to: TinySickTears

I don’t know how much i agree with the idea as a whole but, i think a bi-weekly or monthly check makes more sense than dropping 10k on someone at once.

As much as I like the idea of not having to worry about having basic necessities covered I just dont understand how it could work. I may be wrong but this is my understanding. If everyone recieves a base amount of money each year, inflation would make that the new baseline and money would become fairly worthless. Prices would rise to compensate. Because, as far as I know, part of the value of money, the way it works now, is partially derived.by how much is in circulation at any time. The more there is the less valuable it is. I could be totally wrong about this but this is kind pf what I remember.fr the little bit of economics i've learned. If im wrong someone please let me know I'd like to understand better.

originally posted by: MiddleInsite
a reply to: TinySickTears

I think you covered it pretty well. I agree with you comments completely.

Unfortunately there will always be irresponsible people who will take from the responsible ones. One way or another.

I have an idea. If you work full time all year, forty hours for fifty weeks, the government cuts you a check for ten grand. How does that sound?

i can get down with something like that. that is a type of basic income. the idea though is to help everyone. not everyone works full time. you have homeless people that dont have jobs.
obviously if you are homeless and the money is going to a household then they will be left out so then are we back to every adult citizen?

if it is every adult citizen gets 10 grand then my household would take in 20.

i just think on paper it sounds great.
legalization would bring in an insane amount of money. it could fund 10 grand per household or per person and we could still have assistance though i like that less.
we could still have those programs but make the regulations far different?

in the end as much as i want it to work i dont think it will.
the human factor #s everything up

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: TinySickTears

I don’t know how much i agree with the idea as a whole but, i think a bi-weekly or monthly check makes more sense than dropping 10k on someone at once.

i could get with that
10 grand is 10 grand

i could handle an extra what, 800 bones a month direct deposited into my checking.

it would go so far for so many people.
i work hard. i take care of my #. only so much to go around though.

i think for a lot it would bring happiness and stress reduction.

people could start to save a little bit or a little more. families that otherwise cant really take a vacation could. step up the cars a bit.

it would trickle down to more taxes at lower levels cause people would be spending.

a reply to: dug88

yeah this is the # i know nothing about.
the consequence of the value of the dollar and all that

i just dont know

If I calculated right, that means the legalized MJ market would have to produce 3T/year in profits just to break even with 300 million people living in the U.S. Then you have to factor in people would have to spend money on MJ just to keep the market going, which could cause its own issues I won’t get into. That doesn’t even account for operating costs to produce and distribute the drugs.

UBI doesn't work, though.

If you give everyone $1000 a month, you're essentially giving everyone a $1000/mo pay cut- the cost of living will go up by however much you hand out for free.
It's a zero-sum game aimed at cutting the wealth of the middle class down.

Don't fall for it.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
at work yesterday i started to think about universal basic income. now i know basically nothing about it other than the premise of a money for citizens.

so i started to think that if MJ was legalized federally and taxed there would be money to support this universal income for all adult citizens.

again i know nothing about it so in my thoughts i was thinking like 10 grand a year to every adults. or to every household. the exact particulars are not important at this time.
so lets go with 10 grand per household per year.

that would help so many people. that would pay my rent and a couple bills for the entire year.

i think this would go a long way to relieving stress from a lot of people. it would also give people more disposable income that they could put into the economy and pay taxes at local levels.

people would buy vehicles that otherwise wouldnt be able to. things like that.

i was thinking the trade off could be since all households are getting 10 grand a hear then no more food stamps. no more welfare checks. no more WIC program.

this all sounds great and i think it could be great but we have the human factor.

the human factor is a great deal of people are just going to piss that money away and be in the same shape they were. needing public assistance.

so on that end what to do?
the idea is cut those programs cause people will not need it. reality is people will still need it

can/should the government tell people to # off. you got your 10 grand. not my problem till next year when you get your next 10?

they probably should. but can they really?
there is a level of responsibility to take care of its citizens.

then we get in a situation where people get the 10 large and are still on the programs.... that is not the way to go.

so in a perfect world i think legalization to fund universal basic income among other things is a great idea. i think it would relieve huge amounts of stress on people. it would go a long way to putting a dent in people being homeless. it would put money into the economy cause people would have more to spend.

in our world i think people are gonna # that up.
not all of course but a lot are just gonna piss it away and then still need public assistance.

i want universal basic income to work but i dont think it would.

what do you think?

I'm wondering how much the pot will cost to support the pot heads?

Do us pot headed freeloaders have free pot or have to use our free money to buy it to pay for ourselves?

Perpetual motion?

Sounds good to me, for about 6 months.

There is a lot of lower income families that buy MJ at the current street prices. Obviously I don’t have percentages, but I think if they just legalized it and allowed people to grow their own pot. It would save lower income families a ton of money with minimal gov intervention.

a reply to: TinySickTears

If i remember correctly, there are some places in the US where this is being tried out.

Also alaskans get a dividends check from the oil that is sold. They seem to be doing OK.

originally posted by: amicktd
There is a lot of lower income families that buy MJ at the current street prices. Obviously I don’t have percentages, but I think if they just legalized it and allowed people to grow their own pot. It would save lower income families a ton of money with minimal gov intervention.

Sure, give em all a lic to sell it and what could go wrong?

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: TinySickTears

If i remember correctly, there are some places in the US where this is being tried out.

Also alaskans get a dividends check from the oil that is sold. They seem to be doing OK.

Yeah, the oil thing is not anyway like the pot thing.

a reply to: TinySickTears

It's an interesting idea but I just don't think it would work long term. I don't have anything to back that up other than personal experience. I think that a lot of folks would not use the extra money to advantage and would just blow it away. It makes me think of those folks that have won a lottery and are broke again within a few years. I sure would like to see some answers to help folks, who want to be helped, more but I don't know what they would be.
Funding it long term would be an issue for sure and would it be taxed?

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: amicktd
There is a lot of lower income families that buy MJ at the current street prices. Obviously I don’t have percentages, but I think if they just legalized it and allowed people to grow their own pot. It would save lower income families a ton of money with minimal gov intervention.

Sure, give em all a lic to sell it and what could go wrong?

That wasn’t my point. I grew up extremely poor and watched not only my parents but most people’s parents openly smoke marijuana. Yet they could barely pay the bills. My point was if they weren’t spending hundreds of dollars a month on MJ and was allowed to just grow it on their own it would probably be more effective than some UBi. Plus what would the difference be with alcohol. You can legally make alcohol in your own home to a certain extent, yet we don’t have millions of people dealing alcohol. So I’m unsure what effect if any the licensing thing you mention would change.

a reply to: TinySickTears

i want universal basic income to work but i dont think it would.

what do you think?

I don't think universal basic income can work either... at least not in a free market economy based on supply and demand. Prices will simply rise in direct proportion to the increased income. So using your example, if you were given $10,000 today it would cover your rent today, but chances are that your Landlord is going to raise your rent. Sure, he's getting an extra $10,000 per year too, but that means you can also pay him extra... and you gotta live someplace... and if you aren't willing to pay it, then someone else will cause they gotta live someplace too... And it becomes a vicious circle.

Just as guaranteed money raised the cost of college and vocational schools...

Just as guaranteed money raised the cost of homes and mortgages...

Just as guaranteed money raises the cost of pretty much everything.

The only way I could see a universal basic income actually providing a real tangible benefit is if our basic needs were otherwise taken care of, so that income was truly disposable... just for "extras"... and could not be gobbled up by a parasitic "free" market. And that, of course, opens a whole 'nother can of worms.

originally posted by: weirdguy
I think it's a great idea man. I was hoping that with globalization that something like that would occur, but I'm kinda naive like that. Turns out that globalization is just to make the very rich even richer and # everyone over.

Globalism is just like communism. The promise of equality for everyone except those at the top. That equality means equally miserable (except for those in charge that is).

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: TinySickTears

I don’t know how much i agree with the idea as a whole but, i think a bi-weekly or monthly check makes more sense than dropping 10k on someone at once.

Dropping 10 grand at once on a person living in poverty, would be the definition of stupidity.

Though, I did once threaten to do exactly that to a full blown junkie at my work, when he totally screwed me over... They would have found him stone cold on the toilet seat within the week