Nellis Aggressors get Have Glass V

Three F-16s belonging to the 64th Aggressor Squadron have been seen wearing the new Have Glass V paint. The Have Glass program applies the same paint as used on stealth aircraft to reduce the RCS of non stealthy aircraft, such as the F-16. The first F-16s seen wearing the new paint were from the 175th Fighter Squadron, based in South Dakota. They were seen in the new paint returning from deployment in Poland in 2016.

The 64th aircraft are normally painted in similar camouflage as used by other nations, particularly Russia. For years they trained pilots to fight Soviet tactics, and they continued to use their camouflage paint schemes until recently. This is partly to quickly differentiate friend from foe during DACT. The first aircraft was seen in an Australian press release about Red Flag, and until recently carried an arctic splinter scheme.

theaviationist.com...

a reply to: Zaphod58

Realistically, what is the difference in rcs return with that paint?

And would it be wort painting older aircraft with that?

a reply to: grey580

The actual reduction is classified as far as I've found, but I've seen anywhere from 5-20% estimated, depending on which generation of paint is involved.

Why is it always "have" this, and "have" that? So, if the black programs really are making the UFOs. Is the program called "Have Cigar?" (shape)

a reply to: SonofaSkunk

Because the name means something. HAVE is usually used to denote an operational program. They aren't picked totally at random.

so from what i understand on that sort of stuff is its pretty intensive and requires a ton of maintenance in comparison. is this also the same stuff that theyve found melting off planes in heat?

a reply to: TheScale

The problem with the F-22 was fixed, and wasn't totally unexpected. As for this, it's RAM impregnated paint, not the full RAM skin that stealth aircraft have. It's much easier to maintain.

Joking aside, thanks for the info Zaph. To take it a bit further, is HAVE an acronym? And, just curious, why aren't the nose and wingtips painted the same as the rest of the body?

a reply to: SonofaSkunk

No, it's just the program umbrella name. There are many, such as PACER, SENIOR, PAVE. All are used to denote different things.

The nose uses paint that allows the radar to see through it. It's always a different paint than the rest. The wingtips because their missile rails. It's not easy to reduce their RCS.

a reply to: Zaphod58

From what I've read the RCS of the F-16C is about 1.2m.
So this will, get it down to 1m?

Helps a little.

a reply to: grey580

Every little bit helps. They're trying to find ways to challenge the 5th Gen guys without pulling actual 5th Gen aircraft from the fleet for aggressors.

a reply to: SonofaSkunk

Defense Department projects, programs, and exercises have unclassified nicknames consisting of two words. The first word comes from a list of terms that have been allocated to various sponsoring agencies (DARPA, USAF, USN, etc.).
The second word is supposed to be selected at random but in practice that frequently doesn't happen.

The first word HAVE was originally allocated to Air Force Systems Command, which has since become Air Force materiel Command. That is why so many test programs receive names like HAVE BLUE, HAVE DOUGHNUT, HAVE CENTAUR, etc. USAF Test Pilot School class projects are similarly named (HAVE RAIDER, HAVE DARKSIDE, etc.).

Classified programs often have a classified codeword and an unclassified nickname. The SR-71 was known by the (now declassified) codeword EARNING and also by the unclassified nickname SENIOR CROWN.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: TheScale

The problem with the F-22 was fixed, and wasn't totally unexpected. As for this, it's RAM impregnated paint, not the full RAM skin that stealth aircraft have. It's much easier to maintain.

well in that case im all for spraying everything with this stuff.

Heard rumors in the old day of a few cars being painted with F111 Black to escape Radar traps..

a reply to: Blackfinger

I suspect you meant F-117, though I enjoyed watching the Aussie F-111 at Red Flag back in the day.

I seriously doubt ram paint would be allowed for a G job given that the stuff is classified. But RAM isn't a big deal if you don't need it military grade. Stealth car bras were a late 80s early 90s thing. I doubt they worked well, but I'm sure they sold well. You can buy RAM sheets for reducing RF multipath. I suspect it wouldn't last long on anything flying Mach 2!

Is this the same paint that was used to paint the leading edges of Tornado GR 1’s in the 1st gulf war...??? We knew it as “iron ball” paint and it weighed a ton!!! It did reduce the frontal RCS of the Tornado ( with the help of a lot of rubber tiles down the intake) to that of a Hawk...!!! If you painted the whole A/C with this stuff it would never takeoff..! Ia reply to: Zaphod58

a reply to: Silentvulcan

It's a much more advanced version of previous paints.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Out of curiosity.

The nose cone can't be painted with the reflective paint for, obvious reasons.

So what do do there?

You can make the nose cone out of radar transparent material and then apply RAM to the area behind it and shape the antenna to offer a low RCS...a reply to: grey580

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: Zaphod58

Realistically, what is the difference in rcs return with that paint?

And would it be wort painting older aircraft with that?

It's expensive, it doesn't drastically change the RCS, it needs maintaining, it is heavy.

So no, not generally. Maybe if the balloon goes up.