What We Do Today

In any complex emergence, like human society, any subsystems that sustain the main system in a beneficial way will be repeated over and over again. Family units are systems that work irrespective of ideology, religion, or identity in general.

Emergence phenomenon generally explains how simple functions and complex systems become more orderly over time, by essentially operating beyond the scope of the sum of its parts. It can be scaled and measured almost indefinitely.

This is the reason I can’t wait to meet a new species in the cosmos. The family unit today scales up to nation states and continental unions. Interstellar beings would necessitate that scale to increase to a global system. At the most basic levels-sustained by individuals in family units.

None of that requires democrats, republicans, communists, fascists, or any ideology in particular. I’d say those ideologies are likely expressions of our systems experimenting and self correcting. Like a natural debugging program. We actually see evidence of debugging in things like ant colonies(pun very much intended).

Anyway, it’s hard for me to look at things like politics, race, and religion as much more than debugging efforts by our species as we move forward and adapt to technological advancements and the changes we make to our environment. I get caught up in the now of it sometimes as well, but the fact that it’s all bull# transient debugging leading to a better, yet unrealized, modus vivendis make it difficult for me to truly accept those “in the now” ideas as valid.

I’m not saying our present day concerns aren’t valid, I’m saying that many of the philosophical ideas and ideologies we use to explain these problems and bring about more order from disharmonious situations are simply wrong.

The problem is that while I can make this observation I have no idea what to move forward with. While it is perfectly possible for me to create a new system that works well over time, it’s own validity would eventually fall to zero as well. The problem being time and entropy.

Basically I have no idea how to right all the wrong I see without becoming all the wrong I see, and it doesn’t seem to really matter which of the current order ideologies I choose as a substrate to build on.

We really do need something new. Radically new that changes our perspective entirely. I don’t know about you, but I’m starting to get to a point where I just desperately want to move forward, to innovate, and get passed all of what holds us back. I don’t think we’re gonna do that engaging each other the way we do now.

I just don’t want to fail my kids. In 100 years everyone who is alive today will be dead and gone statistically speaking. It will be a new set of humans forging ahead with you and I nothing more than faded memories in the minds of our grandchildren and great grandchildren, eventually forgotten. But what we do today will help shape that world, and I can’t see where most of today’s preoccupations, prejudices, and ignorance will fit in our future if we want to survive as a species.

Ideologies are fleeting in comparison to survival. What is trendy (Feminism/Cultural Marism etc) are infintessimal alongside evolved continuation strategies, and will fade into history, or irreparably damage the fabric of civilised society to the point of reset, if allowed to fester unchecked.

a reply to: CulturalResilience

Which is my point.

Only extremely narrowed to feminism and cultural Marxism. Those are already extremist ideologies. I'm looking as well at what amounts to mainstream ideological constructs over the last 100 years that covers everything from American conservatism to Russian Communism. That is essentially the substrate we have to work with when thinking in large enough time frames.

Absolutely every ideological system we have available to build on today will fail utterly within the next 50 years due entirely to our own progress both socially and technologically.

Henry Ford changed the world, so will Elon Musk. A whole new Epoch will arise...

originally posted by: Plotus
Henry Ford changed the world, so will Elon Musk. A whole new Epoch will arise...

I'm not hanging my hopes on one man and that is hardly the point.

However I can see the validity of referencing Musk in terms of scientific optimism. Certainly his optimistic view is preferable to the political nihilism we all tend to fall into.

I recommend the excellent book "The Macroscope" by Joel deRosnay as a primer on systems science. The entire book (short with pictures) is online here:


pespmc1.vub.ac.be...

Then there is :

Emergence refers to the existence or formation of collective behaviors — what parts of a system do together that they would not do alone.

necsi.edu...

... for more on 'emergence'.

a reply to: projectvxn

I agree with most of what you say in your op, however I need to point out that just your avatar would be enough for any other worldly intelligence to view you as a threat.... Sorry to be a Debbie Downer.

It diverges some, but He will affect an entire segment of life. Transportation and those in the trade, eliminating a segment of the working persons survival by way of employment. Narrowing the work force. And ultimately how long will fossil fuel hold it's grasp on civilization. The spreading branches of the tree of life.

Our Great Great Grandchildren will read of accounts of the dirty centuries, of blackened skies, of ozone depletion and the resulting losses. Perhaps they will reach towards a life more reflecting a form of Utopia.

Infact, before Elon is done, he will have brought the world out of a servitude civilization, to the opportunity of repair to our Earth. So dismiss him if you will, but think twice before you decide for good.

a reply to: projectvxn

I think the key is just to stay open. And never absorb other peoples politics to the point that we allow ourselves to see each other as the enemy. The people we all fight over amongst ourselves couldn't care less what happens to any of us, unless there is a chance of money or power involved.

I've always heard it gets worse before it gets better, so hopefully better is where we're headed. I'm all for a new paradigm shift. Sooner than later.

a reply to: underwerks

What I'm saying is that beyond those things, our own progress is going to force some serious changes in our perspectives with regard to our world view both as individuals and as society in whole. Those changes are coming much sooner than later and it seems to me that we are ill-equipped ethically and ideologically to deal with it where we are today.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer.

You've contributed nothing to this discussion other than a quip about my avatar.

If that's what you're referring to, apology accepted. Now try for better.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Emergence is such an interesting process.

Just the notion that living things are the result of this phenomenon. That we are all, essentially, a collection of dead things working together to create what we recognize as life.

a reply to: projectvxn

OK, your military, your job is to neutralise people, if we are to make friends with other worldly intelligence we might find it beneficial to approach them from a friendly stance.

My point is you say you cannot see a way forward, is it possible you cannot see it because you are so used to being a hammer, everything else looks like a nail. The simple act of being military is perpetuating a cycle, to break that cycle it has to begin with you.

I'm not trying to be insulting, and I'm sure I could have worded this better, anyhow I hope you can see where I am coming from.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: CulturalResilience

Which is my point.

Only extremely narrowed to feminism and cultural Marxism. Those are already extremist ideologies. I'm looking as well at what amounts to mainstream ideological constructs over the last 100 years that covers everything from American conservatism to Russian Communism. That is essentially the substrate we have to work with when thinking in large enough time frames.

Absolutely every ideological system we have available to build on today will fail utterly within the next 50 years due entirely to our own progress both socially and technologically.

There are ideological systems, founded by luminaries, that regular folks simply don't hear about: Jacque Fresco; Michael Tellinger, etc...

We still have a chance!

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed


I’m no longer in the military.

Nothing you’re talking about has anything to do with what’s in the OP.

a reply to: projectvxn

I'm must be mixed up then.

My bad I thought you were referencing an ideology for humankind to move forward on, as opposed to being stuck in the medieval mindset that is still running it's course .

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

And yet you’ve addressed none of that. You’ve only actually addressed me as the subject.

At least you know what the thread is about.

Geez man.

a reply to: projectvxn

For some reason I was trying to gain insight from your perspective.

I'm pretty pessimistic when thinking about these things, fear is the major motivator and I just don't see a way to break the spell, we need a reverse Edward bernays to come reprogram us all.

a reply to: projectvxn

But what we do today will help shape that world, and I can’t see where most of today’s preoccupations, prejudices, and ignorance will fit in our future if we want to survive as a species.

Especially since we seem to be preoccupied with killing each other off, destroying the environment and polluting the biosphere.

a reply to: projectvxn

We really do need something new. Radically new that changes our perspective entirely. I don’t know about you, but I’m starting to get to a point where I just desperately want to move forward, to innovate, and get passed all of what holds us back. I don’t think we’re gonna do that engaging each other the way we do now.

This is why we have religion. Life on earth has always been this way and will continue to be this way. Until people realize that we don't have the ability to save ourselves, or each other as humans, there will be no progression. It is in our human nature to destroy each other and ourselves, and technology will only speed that up. As humans, we will always use anything that's good for evil eventually too. The end. It's really that simple.