Water Ice in Crater on Mars

Here are some images processed with Mars Express DTM data. The images are screen caps from a 3D viewing program.


files.abovetopsecret.com...


files.abovetopsecret.com...


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Here are the official ESA images.

The crater is 35 kilometres wide and has a maximum depth of approximately 2 kilometres beneath the crater rim. The circular patch of bright material located at the centre of the crater is residual water ice.

It does not say where the water ice came from. Rain? Snow? Ground Water? Any ideas where the water came from?

It cannot be frozen carbon dioxide since carbon dioxide ice had already disappeared from the north polar cap at the time the image was taken (late summer in the Martian northern hemisphere).

a reply to: LookingAtMars

I would think that would be just a perfect place to land humans provided they have the means to turn that ice into water. Maybe an aquaponics factory. Martian talapia is on the menu!

im going to go ahead and say its methane ice and not 'water' ice on mars. last i checked, water in any form is made up elements not sustainable on Mars, not based on sci fi, but distance from the sun, radiation, lack of anything able to produce water, and lack of water born vegetation or terraformation water produces.

im honestly shocked that they're saying its water based solely on images, by that science europa and IO is full of water

a reply to: Fools

You could tunnel into the side of the crater for shelter, and have a close water supply. It might work out, but it may be better to pick a water supply near the equator where the temperatures do not get so cold in the winter.

a reply to: odzeandennz

im going to go ahead and say its methane ice and not 'water' ice on mars.

Methane sublimates at much lower temperatures than water does. Pretty certain to be water ice and not much reason to think otherwise. The 2005 article:

This white patch is present all year round, as the temperature and pressure conditions do not favour the sublimation of water ice. It cannot be frozen carbon dioxide since carbon dioxide ice had already disappeared from the north polar cap at the time the image was taken (late summer in the Martian northern hemisphere).

www.esa.int...

a reply to: odzeandennz

Did you read the link in the OP. It gives pretty solid reasons why it is thought to be water ice.

EDIT: Looks like Phage read it.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: odzeandennz

im going to go ahead and say its methane ice and not 'water' ice on mars.

Methane sublimates at much lower temperatures than water does. Pretty certain to be water ice and not much reason to think otherwise. The 2005 article:

This white patch is present all year round, as the temperature and pressure conditions do not favour the sublimation of water ice. It cannot be frozen carbon dioxide since carbon dioxide ice had already disappeared from the north polar cap at the time the image was taken (late summer in the Martian northern hemisphere).

www.esa.int...

yes i read that. what im questioning is how could it be water ice at all. not saying it doesn't look like water ice, but why or how would a patch be the sole representative of water ice on mars with no other water-born after effects, or how could water be sustained in any form whilst interacting with the radiation and the atmospheric make up of mars which is carbon dioxide and argon, or the extreme swing temperatures and of course the lack of hydrogen at all albeit less than .01 % oxygen..

since when do what things look like are what they are

a reply to: odzeandennz

It is not the "sole representative of water ice on mars."
spaceweather.com...

What does radiation and argon have to do with water? But yes, the very low atmospheric pressure on Mars means that water ice can only exist at very low temperatures, otherwise it sublimates away to condense into ice another (colder) day.

a reply to: LookingAtMars

Pole temperature range on Mars :
70 degrees F. to minus 195 F.
Approximately.
Freezing temperature of methane=
minus 295.6 F.

Good Stuff!
S&F

a reply to: LookingAtMars

Maybe it’s just the Martians local stockpile of coc aine.

originally posted by: LookingAtMars
It does not say where the water ice came from. Rain? Snow? Ground Water? Any ideas where the water came from?

Water vapour in the atmosphere. It can condense onto the surface as ice.

BTW, that's a very cool feature. I've never seen such a large formation that's considered to be water ice.

Here's a HiRISE detail:



www.uahirise.org...

You can see here that it's actually frosted-over sand dunes.

An interesting feature on the ice:

a reply to: wildespace

Thanks for the HiRise image. That seems to be a lot of water ice to be from condensation. Could it have been a frozen lake that has sublimed away over eons and now that is all that is left?

originally posted by: LookingAtMars
a reply to: wildespace

Thanks for the HiRise image. That seems to be a lot of water ice to be from condensation. Could it have been a frozen lake that has sublimed away over eons and now that is all that is left?

It's just a thin layer of ice on top of a dune mound. Many craters have such a dune mound, for example the famous Victoria crater. It seems the mound is cold enough and under enough atmospheric pressure to facilitate water condensation and keep it there.

I would say its sulphate. You see alot of it in the rover tracks. Saying its water ice is stretching it.

a reply to: wildespace

Agree for the most part.

a reply to: eManym

Well if NASA, ESA and Phage think it is water ice, I am going to go with water ice. Not that I trust "Never A Straight Answer", but in this case I highly doubt it is sulphate. Close examination of the image seems to rule that out.

What's the dark pluim of smoke doing there at the bottom?

originally posted by: 0bserver1
What's the dark pluim of smoke doing there at the bottom?

It's simply exposed sand: hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu...



Very beautiful detail when seen upclose:



At different seasons, that patch is remarkably ice-free: hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu...

~~~

And here's some more beautiful detail of the ice patch:

That dark brown, disturbed area near the bottom of the original pic looks interesting. Would that not be a great place to check for some possible microbial life? There are large, dome shaped features in that patch. Interesting indeed!

a reply to: Phage

argon and carbon dioxide are reactive. any hydrogen mix oxidizes immediately. water is still h2o, no matter what planet you are on.

this would mean the less than 0. 01% of hydrogen on mars is what is producing massive "water ice" at the poles...

until another research refutes this massive amount of water on mars i the form of ice...

even your link seems to think its still speculative

Some readers have asked, how do we know the white substance is not frozen CO2 (dry ice) instead of frozen water? Answer: Phoenix's landing site is too warm for dry ice. The average daily temperature is about -70 F while dry ice requires temperatures lower than about -109 F.

Finding water was one of the key goals of the Phoenix mission. Although H2O has trouble flowing as a liquid on the surface of Mars, it may be able to liquify, from time to time, just below the surface, providing a habitat for martian microbes. Exciting stuff! Stay tuned as the digging continues.

there's nothing wrong with inquisition and asking more questions, in fact its better than just quoting and believing whats simply written.

but ut seems there is some chance it may be frozen water; albeit the hydrogen would decompose in the mix of argon no matter what planet you are on.